Stephen Kenny

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Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

True, but it's reached another level in the last 12 months. In the 11 games before Kenny took over, we scored 13 goals
In his 11 games in charge, we've scored 4 goals - as many as we scored Mick McCarthy's final 2 games (1 V Denmark, 3 V New Zealand)

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Yeah, it's hard to dispute the stats too much, but I do think that's a little simplistic. Take the 6 goals in the pretty meaningless friendlies out of Mick's tenure and we're left with 7 in 8 matches, four of which were against Georgia and Gibraltar. Prior to that O'Neill's spell ended with four blanks in a row.

It can certainly be argued the situation has got worse but was that not inevitable anyway when trying to bed in the likes of Idah (who doesn't start in the Championship) and Connolly (who doesn't really score in the PL), not to mention trying to completely transform our style of play?

On the plus side we have scored three in the last three, so maybe the first sign that the tide is turning a little, albeit a hard sell with the blank against Luxembourg sandwiched in the middle.

Against Andorra things can only go wrong - even if we beat them 6-0 playing amazing football, it means nothing really. But a failure to beat them means a whole lot.

Against Hungary, there's the potential for a good performance to actually mean something.

I don't know, the longer he goes without that first win the more the pressure mounts and it really becomes a thing, even more so than it is already.

I think it's worth playing just to remove the "Stephen Kenny, who's still looking for his first win as Republic of Ireland manager...." from the start of every news report.

I see what you mean in terms of risk versus reward, but just go and win the bloody game - please!

Would I change my mind on Kenny if we beat Andorra and Hungary?

I was very patient with him, acknowledging the lack of quality available to him outside of defence and the need for time to refresh the squad, but I turned on Kenny after Luxembourg. I thought there was a distinct possibility of a draw there (which many others dismissed) but the defeat was crossing a Rubicon.

Andorra is a must win. He's waffled about that in the media, but if he doesn't win it, he can **** off and I don't care where to. Andorra are ****e. Shamrock Rovers should beat them, never mind Ireland.

Hungary are better than people think. A 0-0 draw would be neutral, a score draw would be a positive, and a win would be great. Enough to say he deserves to stay? Not really. He could beat Portugal and I'd still be sceptical that it's a one-off. He needs a series of results to re-establish credibility now. He might get one - God knows he's due a bit of luck - but I wouldn't bet on it.

A loss, draw or a poor winning performance against Andorra (friendly or not) should make his position absolutely untenable. It is only delaying the inevitable anyway.

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

We drew against Slovakia btw. I thought it was a decent performance with probably the strongest team we've managed to have out under Kenny

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We did draw with them and played well, we also scored a world class goal against Serbia. But the overall package has been disaster. We were deservedly beaten by Luxembourg in Dublin. We are already out of the world cup. Two games and its Goodnight irene. That has never happened before in my lifetime

Well that's fair enough, though I was replying to your suggestion that we lost to Slovakia

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Well that's fair enough, though I was replying to your suggestion that we lost to Slovakia

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TrapAPony's signature could be applied to the outcome there I think - "We lost because we didn't win". :)

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Originally Posted by DeLorean

I think it's worth playing just to remove the "Stephen Kenny, who's still looking for his first win as Republic of Ireland manager...." from the start of every news report.

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They'll just add "competitive" to that statement before the word win regardless of what happens next week. And to be fair he has had nine competitive games and he hasn't won any of them so it's fair enough to open every report with that line I think.

His managerial term has been an absolute disaster up to now.

Those still in the pro kenny camp are just desperate for a change in style of play, and are clinging onto the hope of hopes that kenny is that man to deliver it. There's been no suggestion thus far that he is the man, in fact its been completely the opposite. But if you have a fantasy and you feel that fantasy can play out, you'll go to the depths to make it seem plausible and likely. So whether theres really a belief in Kenny being able to do it, it doesnt really matter, the main thing is that its a route to the realisation of their fantasy.

I don't believe in the sake of playing youth/young players just for the sake of playing the younger players. We can replace A with B or B with C at the moment but A is just as ordinary as C. If all these caps were leading to someone standing out and gaining experience then I'd say ya, but there's really no one that has done that.

If he loses tonight, I still think he will manage to stay on, unless he decides himself that it really is too big a job and walks. I don't seem him being pushed or fired. If we win tonight or against Hungary next week I don't think it changes much. His start has been disastrous, people have even forgotten about the poor penalty display and what seems like a lack of preparation because things have only got more and more desperate since that game. The only way he can turn it around now is to see a win against Serbia and a draw against Portugal, its been so bad it has to get pretty good very quickly.

Who, specifically, has been arguing to play young players for the sake of playing young players and which older players, specifically, have been omitted for the sake of it?

No one did, you did mention 14 different players having played the last two games, or something to that effect. It has been suggested that he has brought a lot of youth through, and given many new caps, I'm saying that thats not necessarily of any real benefit as no one has stood out. The argument that suggests this has been a positive is not one I would agree with.

He hasn't had a lot of choice in the matter. His hand has been forced time and again by a combination of Covid and injuries.

If i remember correctly, there were a few of us that were surprised with his first squad and how few new/young players were actually brought in. A gradual transition may have been his plan but it all changed rapidly for the reasons above. I think people don't give enough credence to the hand he has been dealt and how it might have impacted whatever plan he had.

I echo Charlies question though - I am not sure who these better, older players are that are being left out. Thats an important part of the equation that is being presented. I wanted McGeady in the squad for Serbia/Luxembourg but even that was marginal. I cant think of many other glaring omissions.

OK so you don't agree with the argument that nobody has made. I think there was a bit of optimism maybe 18 months ago that some of the 21s were going to bash the door down and become top senior players right away, but I haven't really seen that continue as it's become obvious they're not matching those optimistic expectations.

Call me cynical (I've been called worse) but it strikes me that some of the younger prospects are not freally forcing their way into playing week in week out, and really driving their careers on.
They are all probably on relatively decent money for sitting on the bench at their clubs in the uk. In days gone by we had the likes of Aldridge and Houghton playing for Oxford but really working hard to achieve something. There seems to be a handy career available money-wise in knocking about the lower reaches of english football.
I woukd have started McGrath as he's bang in form and playing regularly

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Originally Posted by SkStu

I echo Charlies question though - I am not sure who these better, older players are that are being left out.

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He went with a very green midfield vs Luxembourg, but the older alternatives were a mix of injured or badly off the boil. McClean, Hendrick, McCarthy, Hourihane, and Arter have all been discussed at length here, I think, with some people happy to put some or all of them out to pasture. I've argued that they're overrating the younger players and underrating the older ones, so this is not my opinion, but I've definitely read it.

Harry Arter in paeans of praise for Kenny and his methods:

https://m.sundayworld.com/sport/socc...-40505915.html

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Originally Posted by Trequartista20

Harry Arter in paeans of praise for Kenny and his methods:

https://m.sundayworld.com/sport/socc...-40505915.html

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The love not so subtle dig at the previous management in there.

Ya it read a little bit like a PR exercise, one mainly for Harry Arter but if he's willing to be there end of a strange season then there must be some truth in how he feels.

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Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin

OK so you don't agree with the argument that nobody has made. I think there was a bit of optimism maybe 18 months ago that some of the 21s were going to bash the door down and become top senior players right away, but I haven't really seen that continue as it's become obvious they're not matching those optimistic expectations.

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It was all downhill for those u21 starlets after they came a cropper against the doughty Icelanders.