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Robbie Keane's stock has gone up certainly, but he's nowhere near experienced enough for a national job, especially for his own country. In fact I think it would be really bad for his career, if it all went wrong. Let him keep learning in relatively easy (in terms of the football) surrounds, then he can take a tougher club job somewhere else and so on.
Robbie has found himself in a difficult situation. His pre-October 7 decision to manage in Israel was not a political statement. No more than a southern Catholic opting to manage Ballymena or Linfield. Or pulling on a Rangers jersey. Or an Ulster Unionist playing for Celtic. That he remains at Maccabi during a catastrophic event is hardly politically motivated either - try football loyalty, a rarity these days.Quote:
Originally Posted by Drummerboy2
You’re absolutely right about him taking FAI wages - the association broke the contract, they pay the bill. Robbie-bashing is toxic green-tinted hypocrisy. Some very selective memories for a guy who delivered so much so often and always turned up. The vitriol should be aimed at his namesake who wouldn’t play for Ireland because of a petty spat with a manager.
It's not unheard of for a half-decent international manager not to have had much experience in fairness. Take Wales - it was Ryan Giggs' and Mark Hughes' first managerial role; Gary Speed had 18 games with Sheffield United. Giggs got them to the World Cup, Hughes nearly got them to Euro 2004 (they'd been minnows the previous few years), Speed lifted them from 117th in the world to 45th. Rudi Völler and Jurgen Klinsmann had no managerial experience before taking over Germany (and got to a World Cup Final and a World Cup semi, in a period when Germany were generally considered to be in the doldrums)Quote:
Originally Posted by NeverFeltBetter
Not every inexperienced manager is going to be a Staunton.
When Robbie took that job Gaza was an open-air prison. Comparing the situation in Israel and Palestine to the comparitively low-level sectarianism in the north or the west of Scotland is ridiculous. To suggest he just didn't consider that is equally ridiculous. Nobody is that naive. Either he didn't see any issue with what's happening there, or more likely, he was prepared to look the other way for the money.Quote:
Originally Posted by Snapshot
What he did isn't unique. It's little different from Jordan Henderson or Christiano Ronaldo going to ply their trade a country where women are treated like slaves and the LGBT community like criminals. It's little different from the athletes and musicians who went to South Africa to entertain all white crowds in Sun City in the 80s. Like those people he has done himself permanent reputational damage.
I don't want him as our manager. I don't want to see him paraded around Landsdowne Road at some point in the future to mark the anniversay of this or that goal he scored. I don't want him to be involved in Irish football in any way.
I actually think John O'Shea has a perfect temperament for management, as long as he can motivate players.
I respect your opinion. I believe Keane's decision was naive and shortsighted. But an extrapolation of indifference to human life, avarice, gay rights, apartheid and slave trading is extreme. A standard bearer for all that's wrong in the world? Robbie went there to manage a football club. I believe that's about it.Quote:
Originally Posted by backstothewall
If we say that Robbie doesn't have enough experience can we then please stop talking up the like of Anthony Barry who has even lessQuote:
Originally Posted by NeverFeltBetter
That's fair, and I don't discount the possibility that Robbie Keane is starting out on what will be a successful managerial career. I'd rank him higher than Lennon or Roy Keane in terms of the candidates mooted recently, even if it is only speculation. But I think we can do better right now. Even if Carsley's club CV is unimpressive, he has experience of a national set-up that I would place a higher value on than Robbie Keane's 3/4 of a season managing one of the best big fish in a small pond.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
I hope we can anyway. Wouldn't be quite sure though! I'd have Carsley ahead of Keane for the reasons you note alright.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeverFeltBetter
I think any of the above would be able to motivate a team and command the respect of the players more than SK
The UK funds and support the Israelis. Will you be boycotting British football and condemning all players and managers who go there to ply their trade? If so, fair enough. If not, why not?Quote:
Originally Posted by backstothewall
I don't see what any of that has to do with who our next manager is. In fact it looks a lot like off topic wumming.Quote:
Originally Posted by texidub
For the record I don't believe the UK does fund Israel, and my description of Gaza as being an open air prison is actually a quote from their current foreign secretary. They have supported Israel since the latest flare up in hostilities began so I will concede that much.
And for that reason I do not believe that Rishi Sunak is a suitable candidate to replace Stephen Kenny.
I would also have some serious concerns about how his style of play might suit our current squad tbh.
Not wumming... I'm disgusted by what's happening in Gaza. I was disgusted by Oct 7th too. The world needs healing not more hate directed at peripheral figures like Robbie Keane.
The world doesn't just heal itself unfortunately. PW Botha didn't just wake up one morning and decide that the whole system was a bit unfair. South Africa had to be made global pariahs and western society collectively made breaking the boycott more hassle than it was worth before the rebel sports tours and sun city gigs stopped. And that pressure had to be maintained for long enough that those in power in South Africa appointed a reformer who could bring them back into the global fold. Millions of people made a contribution to that pressure, from their Lordships in the MCC who threw a peripheral figure like Mike Gatting out of their sport, to the supermarket workers in the Henry Street branch of Dunnes who had something to say about the grapefruit they were prepared to handle.Quote:
Originally Posted by texidub
We're already doing it with Russia, and quite rightly so.
I don't hate Robbie Keane. I'm very deeply disappointed by him. I find it hard to avoid drawing a comparison between him, a guy who already has more money than he can ever spend, and those Dunnes workers living close to the breadline in the 1980s.
This will be a black mark against him forever. He should not be our manager. The reaction from many fans, myself included, would be catastrophic for Irish football.
It would be a sh*t show. That's true. I don't think it's right that Russia is banned. It's the politics of the latest atrocity. In footballing terms it's like an under 10s match with everyone running towards the ball at all times, failing to hold meaningful positions, and not thinking about the bigger picture. And it's inconsistent. The US/UK killed a few Iraqis not too long ago. Are you deeply diappointed by all the Irish who happily played football in England at the time? How about those played during the Troubles? Were they immoral too?
BTW, Israelis are not some homogenous Borg.. plenty of them have no time for the government. It's a divided society. There are probably players under Robbie's management that despise the current leadership. And not all Palestinians are Hamas supporters. The squeakiest wheel gets the most attention.
Anyway, don't want to take thread any more off course. I see where you're coming from and maybe some of my reaction comes from a naieve frustration that every feckin' thing seems to be politicized and radicalized, even in places most people visit to mentally escape from all that... like football matches.
Do you mean not now or not ever? If the former, fair enough (rightly or wrongly, the negative reaction would be problematic) but if you mean the latter i would disagree completely. I am on the same page as texidub generally speaking on this. Truly, where do you draw the line in terms of what is acceptable genocidal tendencies (US/UK) v. unacceptable (Israel, Russia). Who is the arbiter of that? What about boycotting China - and any Irish entities with business interests or otherwise in China - because of what they are doing to the Uyghurs. It is a dangerous mentality to take on the situation to make Robbie into something of a pariah for managing a football club in Israel. I'd be fine with Robbie now or in the future, to be honest.Quote:
Originally Posted by backstothewall
Dan Martin got no criticism for racing directly for the Israeli state.Quote:
Originally Posted by SkStu
But still, I think Robbie was tone deaf doing what he did. Accepting a job pre-Oct 7 was different but still a bit awkward imho.
I pursued a job in Abu Dhabi 2 years ago. I wasn’t entirely comfortable with it but it’d have been life changing. Robbie’s situation was different.
But Quiroz manages/ed Iran etc.
The world is a moral maze right now but I think almost everyone is repulsed by both Hamas and probably more so by Israel’s reaction. It’s interesting to note that Netanyahu isn’t popular at home, he’s very probably culpable for what happened (empowering Hamas over PA, and the intelligence failures) and remember that a year ago there were hordes in the streets demonstrating against his judicial reforms.
So which Israel is Robbie endorsing, if any?
But we don’t need any Israel noise anywhere near the Ireland MNT right now, I think we can all agree.
Kind of related, I thought Leil Abata’s statement today was class.
There's a lot to address there. I'll try to hit as many points as I can that are on topic. There's a lot there that lives in the current affairs chat.
I don't think it's wise to be talking about permanently closing any doors on him or anyone else. Forever is a long time and a million and one things could change over the years and decades. For now the best thing he could do would be finish up the season, win the division, and move on to the next club as quickly as possible.
Robbie is of an age where he can say something along the lines that he didn't want to be too judgemental about the situation because he remembered the way people did that about Northern Ireland in the 1990s. He can do that and say how much he enjoyed living in Tel Aviv and how great the club is, but also say that having been there and travelled around the country and considering what happened while he was there it was probably a mistake to go.
That would get a bit of the funk off him, and time is a great healer. From the day Brother Walfrid pinned a notice in the chapel door about setting up a football club, Celtic have always been a club with an ethos of being as much about social justice as football. Yet Rod Stewart, one of the sons of Sun City, is treated like royalty there.
Ahh screw it. I'm about to step over the line. Sorry mods. Move the post if you must. I get it and I don't make a habit of it.
The world is a complicated place, and yes, they're all b*****ds. America are are up to their balls in everything. Putin is a monster. The Chinese don't want to end American influence, they want to replace it. Iran are stirring the pot and had a big hand in Oct 7th. The French are still interfering in the former possessions in Africa. And the British...
But some things are simple. F**king with a maternity hospital is disgusting, and anyone responsible for that deserves to be publicly boiled in oil. That applies to the president of the country down to the guy who types the coordinates into the missile system or cuts the power supply with his laptop. It also applies whether it's a maternity hospital in Mariupol or a maternity hospital in Jabalia.
Say what you like about the yanks or their boys across Irish Sea from us, but when they illegally invaded Iraq I have no doubt that one of their immediate priorities while rolling through a city was ensuring that they minimised disruption the basic civilian infrastructure. Hospitals still opened, markets got food to the people, and clean water ran from pipes. Schools opened as soon as possible after that I imagine.
If you are the parent of a sick child, and the best place for that child to see a doctor is a nearby field hospital of the foreign military who have just rolled through your country in tanks, that's where you go. It's not even a difficult decision. but that's not what's happening here, even in northern Gaza where the conflict should now have passed.
Palestinian doctors are performing operations on babies using mobile phone torches and candles. That hospital in Jabalia should have the lights on by now. If the Israelis had set up a field hospital with lights and doctors, that's where the babies would be. That neither has happened suggests that's it's the way the Israeli's want it to be. And that isn't remotely complicated. It's as simple as getting hitting hit on the head with a rock. Something Israeli soldiers, wearing ballistic helmets, usually respond to with live rounds.
P.S. Dan Martin got a lot of criticism from me. Abada's statement was class. Robbie Keane can't replace Stephen Kenny. He can't even act as a scout.
It's hard to know where to draw the line at times. I went to college with a gay guy who moved to Qatar a few years later. There was another guy on the course who preached social justice the whole time we were there and later moved to Saudi Arabia for a few years to work for the government there. I live in the UK, who have a government I would disagree with on a huge range of issues, not to mention their history in Ireland, but I still live and work here.
And I think if Robbie had gotten himself involved in Israeli football after the invasion that would have been a huge black mark against his name, probably one that he wouldn't recover from. But he didn't, he went there before it all kicked off, and most people were pretty indifferent about him going there at that time. So I think it's unfair to go in any harder on him now than people did before the whole situation kicked off again. He's in an awkward situation and I'm guessing he wouldn't have taken the job if he knew this was going to happen. But given the timeframe involved I don't think it should affect his reputation too much longer term.
Would you stop! You didn't pursue Abu Dhabi because the costs of sunscreen lotion for that noggin of yours would mitigate any increase in personal wealth.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
Oh I was done with him from the minute he went there. Gaza was a hell hole on October 6th
I'll assume that this is totally made upQuote:
Originally Posted by Jolly Red Giant
Let's be clear - Robbie Keane is in Israel because they threw a stack load of money at him and he's managing a team that has pretty much zero competition. From his perspective its a win / win - he gets well paid and he gets to pad his CV.
And Robbie is not going to bite the hand that feeds him - he has always chased the money and always will - look after number 1 and f*ck everyone else.
Along with that Robbie is a spoofer and thinks he is smarter than he actually is.
You are giving Robbie Keane far more credit than he deserves.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eirambler
Sure, most of us think we are smarter than we actually are ~ ~ Tis that, that makes the human world work ! ! !Quote:
Originally Posted by Jolly Red Giant
This team with "pretty much zero competition" hasn't won the league in four years. They're on the verge of the quarter finals of the Conference League, by far the furthest they've ever gone in Europe too. (Yes, it's only the Conference League, but they didn't make the groups last year and got knocked out in the last 24 the year before that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jolly Red Giant
Let's give a little bit of credit where it's due (and by all means accuse him of following the money)
And this is the sort of absolute boll0cks I'm meant when I said a few pages back that Robbie isn't getting the credit he deserves.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jolly Red Giant
If Chris Hughton was in Robbie's position atm JRG would be on here proclaiming what a magnificent job being done by Chris "anything negative about his reigns is someone else's fault" Hughton.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
Why? The only footballers who don't follow the money are those who aren't offered it.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
It's not just footballers. I moved to the US to follow the money, I've moved to different jobs within the US following the money, to some company's with differing ethics... I don't regret it for a second with the life those choices have given me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Snapshot
Why? Cos he followed the moneyQuote:
Originally Posted by Snapshot
You can by all means make the argument that plenty of other people would do it too.
Neil Warnock sacked by Aberdeen.
Sign him up CanhamQuote:
Originally Posted by Colbert Report
Following the money is fine as long as you don't hand in your morals while taking the money.
I don't know what Robbie's morals are like but he sure was a wonderful player no matter where he played.
I imagine he has zero interest or clue about politics and is more interested in football.
As I said before, it's not a gig I would have taken but that's just my opinion.
Politics shouldn't belong in sport but of course it's all over sport
Somebody needs to start a rumour about the most boring possible manager ~ ~ To force the FAI's hand a bit, to get some info out of them.
Who could be the most boring manager possible ~ Any candidates ? !
Some-one like that boring priest in Father Ted ? !
Chris Hughton :)Quote:
Originally Posted by seanfhear
Stop It ! ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Razors left peg
I will say, because everyone is thinking itQuote:
Originally Posted by seanfhear
Glenn Roader
Richard Dunne would fit that profile but unfortunately isn't a manager. That man could make a career out of audio books for insomniacs.Quote:
Originally Posted by seanfhear
Fr. Stone.Quote:
Originally Posted by seanfhear