Worst Irish 11 since 1980

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Originally Posted by jbyrne

hilarious. he plays for the best team in the premier lge for a manager who shows no mercy when getting rid of players that are not up to it. hes about to be part of a premier lge winning team with a good shout at winning the champions lge yet some on here think hes not good enough for our middle of the road international team!

you can say what you like but its more about who he plays for than how he plays that attracts the critisism here.... i'll never be convinced otherwise. no world beater but i gaurantee that he'll be a regular feature in our team under trapp. two world class managers cant both be wrong about him

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By your logic that would mean the likes of Dirk Kuyt and Fabio Aurelio - who are both extremely poor - are world class players just because they play in one of the best teams in Europe.

Oh ya if he plays for United he must be top class - see Silvestre, David May, Jordi Cruyff, Kleberson, Djemba Djemba, etc. The only reason he's still at United is because Ferguson thinks he can slot in now and again into a few positions and not do too much damage because there's so many good players around him.

Also, he's happy to get a game now and again rather than be a regular at a lower club - he knows he'll never be good enough to be a regular starter at United - why doesn't he have any ambition to push himself at another club?

And by the way I'm a United fan and I despise him as a player

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Originally Posted by lionelhutz

By your logic that would mean the likes of Dirk Kuyt and Fabio Aurelio - who are both extremely poor - are world class players just because they play in one of the best teams in Europe.

Oh ya if he plays for United he must be top class - see Silvestre, David May, Jordi Cruyff, Kleberson, Djemba Djemba, etc. The only reason he's still at United is because Ferguson thinks he can slot in now and again into a few positions and not do too much damage because there's so many good players around him.

Also, he's happy to get a game now and again rather than be a regular at a lower club - he knows he'll never be good enough to be a regular starter at United - why doesn't he have any ambition to push himself at another club?

And by the way I'm a United fan and I despise him as a player

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Conversely these players only looked poor due to the fact they were playing at a club with such high standards

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Originally Posted by gustavo

Conversely these players only looked poor due to the fact they were playing at a club with such high standards

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Djemba Djemba looked poor for Burnley ffs.

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Originally Posted by youngirish

Djemba Djemba

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So bad they named him twice...............................

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Originally Posted by youngirish

He's also generally poor when playing for United and even poorer when playing for Ireland which is the team I'm concerned about and not some English Premiership team that means nothing to me..... Even the best teams in the world can get away with one or two dodgy players (particularly non starters like O'Shea)..

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hes not generally poor for utd. if he was he wouldnt be playing at all

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Originally Posted by youngirish

Obviously you are a United supporter but to say JOS is a decent player that deserves his place in an Ireland team implies to me that you haven't watched a single Ireland game in the last 6 years. .

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only an Irish supporter. and yes he does deserve his place. if the likes of irwin, mcgrath, mccarthy et al were still around he wouldnt but the arent so he does

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Originally Posted by youngirish

Trapatonni may well pick him for Ireland but that is now due to the current circumstances (with the retirement of A O'Brien, Carr and Finnan and the loss of form of McShane) out of necessity rather than for any implied ability. Staunton and Kerr didn't have to make the same mistakes..

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far better player than mcshane or carr in anycase. obrien has had his moments. he will be an important fixture in our team under trapp

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Originally Posted by youngirish

He has been an absolutely shocking player for Ireland.

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complete over the top statement. if he was anyway near shocking he wouldnt be in the team.

sure theres always one player in our team that its trendy to abuse. when oshea is gone the boo boys will just move onto someone else

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Originally Posted by jbyrne

hes not generally poor for utd. if he was he wouldnt be playing at all



only an Irish supporter. and yes he does deserve his place. if the likes of irwin, mcgrath, mccarthy et al were still around he wouldnt but the arent so he does



far better player than mcshane or carr in anycase. obrien has had his moments. he will be an important fixture in our team under trapp



complete over the top statement. if he was anyway near shocking he wouldnt be in the team.

sure theres always one player in our team that its trendy to abuse. when oshea is gone the boo boys will just move onto someone else

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Sorry mate but you're comnpletely wrong. O'Shea has been truly appalling for Ireland. Consistently. Even on his debut against Croatia he fcked up. He's incapable of concentrating for 90 minutes. His mind wanders, remember him gazing into the crowd just before the Czechs equalised last campaign? He was like a rabbit in headlights. Remember his abberation in the away game against the swiss under Kerr in the first few minutes for the Euro 04 qualifier? These aren't isolated incidents.

It's got nothing to do with it 'being trendy to abuse' him and everything to do with his appalling performances in a green shirt. I actually believe that there's a kernel of talent in there somewhere but his football brain is on the blink. He's taking the easy life at Man U and all, clock up enough games as a utility player to collect his medals without taxing himself. I think he knows that a la Djemba Djemba et al he's be found out if he went somewhere else as a big signing and needed to be one of the main men or senior pros for a team.

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Originally Posted by Drumcondra 69er

Sorry mate but you're comnpletely wrong. O'Shea has been truly appalling for Ireland. Consistently. Even on his debut against Croatia he fcked up. He's incapable of concentrating for 90 minutes. His mind wanders, remember him gazing into the crowd just before the Czechs equalised last campaign? He was like a rabbit in headlights. Remember his abberation in the away game against the swiss under Kerr in the first few minutes for the Euro 04 qualifier? These aren't isolated incidents.

It's got nothing to do with it 'being trendy to abuse' him and everything to do with his appalling performances in a green shirt. I actually believe that there's a kernel of talent in there somewhere but his football brain is on the blink. He's taking the easy life at Man U and all, clock up enough games as a utility player to collect his medals without taxing himself. I think he knows that a la Djemba Djemba et al he's be found out if he went somewhere else as a big signing and needed to be one of the main men or senior pros for a team.

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Agree 100%. Add to the facts above that he can't distribute the ball to save his life, always looks extremely lethargic on the pitch and is a non entity in an attacking sense and a more accurate portrait of the enigma that is John O'Shea could not be found.

Whatever abuse McShane receives in his career from this date forward the fact remains that he's had 3 or 4 better performances in his short time in an Ireland shirt than any single performance O'Shea has put in in nearly 7 years of International football.

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Originally Posted by youngirish

Agree 100%. Add to the facts above that he can't distribute the ball to save his life, always looks extremely lethargic on the pitch and is a non entity in an attacking sense and a more accurate portrait of the enigma that is John O'Shea could not be found.

Whatever abuse McShane receives in his career from this date forward the fact remains that he's had 3 or 4 better performances in his short time in an Ireland shirt than any single performance O'Shea has put in in nearly 7 years of International football.

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Why does Fergie pick him ?

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Originally Posted by Shedender81

Why does Fergie pick him ?

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He doesn't "pick him". Fergie plays him when he's resting the people who can play football and like against Roma if he has to.
Fergie has no-one better because he prefers splashing the cash on attackers (Tevez,Nani,Anderson all signed in the summer).
Maybe this year he'll decide to buy some back up for Ferdinand and Vidic and then we'll see how much he really rates O'Shea.

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Originally Posted by Shedender81

I disagree about his passion... I sadly saw very little of that from him... Only a passion for the lifestyle . As the for the most famous goal.... Robbie Keane v Germany could battle for it but his goal against Holland was indeed a great moment in an otherwise very average stint in the Irish jersey.

Maybe I am being a tad hash on Trigger... but he strikes me as the start of the problems we currently half with our team....

Flash . Lack class and played for themselves not the country.... loads more like him..

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I'm pleased you said that, i thought i was the only one who felt that way.
I appreciated McAteer's contribution to Ireland and cheered his goal against Holland as loud as anyone else, but i do think the legendary status bestowed on him by many fans is way short of the mark.
I personally dont think he should be in a worst Irish XI, but i do agree with the points above.

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Originally Posted by Shedender81

Why does Fergie pick him ?

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exactly. with all the money utd have they could easily afford an altenative back-up to oshea if they felt the need. and as for ferguson not liking to buy defenders.... what about the €30m+ he spent on ferdinand? what about vidic, evra, pique etc all bought in the last 18 months? he seems less interested in buying a true ctre forward than defenders

i stand by my assertion that he is an easy target made easier by the fact that he plays for utd. he's no world beater but at the very least a decent member of our squad. watch this space for him becoming a central figure in our defence under trapp

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Originally Posted by jbyrne

exactly. with all the money utd have they could easily afford an altenative back-up to oshea if they felt the need. and as for ferguson not liking to buy defenders.... what about the €30m+ he spent on ferdinand? what about vidic, evra, pique etc all bought in the last 18 months? he seems less interested in buying a true ctre forward than defenders

i stand by my assertion that he is an easy target made easier by the fact that he plays for utd. he's no world beater but at the very least a decent member of our squad. watch this space for him becoming a central figure in our defence under trapp

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I agree with your second paragraph. For some reason I still like O'Shea even though he rarely does anything to prove that I should. Provided we can sort out the left back situation I would love to see how a central defensive partnership of Dunne and O'Shea would get on. O'Shea played well for us in Denmark (even though they were shocking that day) aside from the one lapse in concentration when he headed it back. I think if he had a good run of games at centre back for us or Utd he could still prove to be a decent centre back.

However, I disagree with the first paragraph that you wrote. I think Ferguson has very little faith left in O'Shea - as seen on Sunday when at half time he was moved from the centre to the right and later taken off - and it's just convenient for Ferguson that he has a player who doesn't seem to kick up a fuss if he isn't getting much game time (he's had **** all playing time this season) and someone who also doesn't give a **** as to where he plays (someone told me he has now played every single position possible for Utd). If O'Shea really wanted to prove how good a player he is, he should have moved on a long time ago to get regular football instead of making the requisite number of 10 minute substitutions in order to win a medal.

O'Shea remains at United because he is easy to deal with..no ambition, happy to jog on for the last 15 minutes of an already decided game with a massive grin that screams, "There's another 7,000k in my a/c for nothing"..If he was a true player and wanted to make a difference he would demand a move ala Heinze, even if it was to go to a Wigan or a Reading but to actually make a contribution and/or the difference. However he seems content to float by in a Winston Bogarde-ish manner enjoyinh life on easy street.John O'Shea, a true Joke of all trades, centre half, full back, defensive midfielder, most impressive place I seen him play was in nets.

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Originally Posted by jmurphyc

I agree with your second paragraph. For some reason I still like O'Shea even though he rarely does anything to prove that I should. Provided we can sort out the left back situation I would love to see how a central defensive partnership of Dunne and O'Shea would get on. O'Shea played well for us in Denmark (even though they were shocking that day) aside from the one lapse in concentration when he headed it back. I think if he had a good run of games at centre back for us or Utd he could still prove to be a decent centre back.

However, I disagree with the first paragraph that you wrote. I think Ferguson has very little faith left in O'Shea - as seen on Sunday when at half time he was moved from the centre to the right and later taken off - and it's just convenient for Ferguson that he has a player who doesn't seem to kick up a fuss if he isn't getting much game time (he's had **** all playing time this season) and someone who also doesn't give a **** as to where he plays (someone told me he has now played every single position possible for Utd). If O'Shea really wanted to prove how good a player he is, he should have moved on a long time ago to get regular football instead of making the requisite number of 10 minute substitutions in order to win a medal.

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There's the problem jn bold though, he's always at that when he plays 90 minutes.

Agree 100% with your second paragraph.

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Originally Posted by Drumcondra 69er

There's the problem jn bold though, he's always at that when he plays 90 minutes.

Agree 100% with your second paragraph.

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Completely agree with ya mate

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Originally Posted by Drumcondra 69er

There's the problem jn bold though, he's always at that when he plays 90 minutes.

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Yeah, I knew someone would pull me up on that bit. I just think his confidence is so shattered from never playing in the same position at Utd that any time he plays these days he's so nervous he can't concentrate for the whole game. I would hope that by getting a regular run of games for us at centre back that hopefully he would start to gain a little more confidence. However, I'm not blaming Ferguson for O'Shea's shortcomings as it's completely his own fault. I don't know his personal situation but IMO if he had any self respect for himself as a footballer he'd move on.

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Originally Posted by jmurphyc

I don't know his personal situation but IMO if he had any self respect for himself as a footballer he'd move on.

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move on to where? if i was at a club like utd id be very reluctant to move to a newcastle utd or similar. this is the first season he hasnt got a decent run in the team. maybe he will consider his options next season but for now is probably happy to take his chances at utd. id far rather have one of our players experiencing at least some champions lge experience than playing for a nothing mid table outfit who's sole ambition is survival

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Originally Posted by jbyrne

move on to where? if i was at a club like utd id be very reluctant to move to a newcastle utd or similar. this is the first season he hasnt got a decent run in the team. maybe he will consider his options next season but for now is probably happy to take his chances at utd. id far rather have one of our players experiencing at least some champions lge experience than playing for a nothing mid table outfit who's sole ambition is survival

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Yeah .. maybe he should move on like Duff did... or Miller... or Carr......at least he has tested himself at the highest level with various degrees of success.... can we say the same about Shay Given

David Bentley, Matthew Upson, Phil Bardsley, Kieran Richardson (West Brom & Now Sunderland) were all fringe players at Champions League level clubs..However, are only starting to reach their potential after departing and playing Premiership football week in and week out..O'Shea must step out of his comfort zone to prove if he can be any use at all (which I doubt he will).

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Originally Posted by jbyrne

move on to where? if i was at a club like utd id be very reluctant to move to a newcastle utd or similar. this is the first season he hasnt got a decent run in the team. maybe he will consider his options next season but for now is probably happy to take his chances at utd. id far rather have one of our players experiencing at least some champions lge experience than playing for a nothing mid table outfit who's sole ambition is survival

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He hasn't had a decent run in the team for a few years now. He got his second league title last season and I think it would have been time for him to move on. If Utd were to win the CL this year I'd hope that he move on having completed his collection of "medals".

I too would rather have a player experiencing CL football instead of playing at a mid-table team, but not at the expense of that player's development and that is precisely what has happened at Man Utd. Players become better by playing, not by getting a 10 minute cameo every couple of weeks, irrespective of who the team is. If he was getting a decent amount of playing time and generally playing in one position I wouldn't mind, but he isn't.

The fact that JOS signed a contract that keeps him at MU until 2012 shows he has little ambition and is happy in his comfort zone.

SAF surely does not see him as anything other than a utility player otherwise why, since JOS had his purple patch in 2002/03, has he signed Ferdinand, Heinze - since replaced by Evra, Vidic and Pique? Even Wes Brown appears to be ahead of JOS in the pecking order and this will be confirmed if Brown is offered an improved contract. Even if Brown moves on, it is almost certain SAF will sign another defender.

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Originally Posted by Speakthetruth

David Bentley, Matthew Upson, Phil Bardsley, Kieran Richardson (West Brom & Now Sunderland) were all fringe players at Champions League level clubs..However, are only starting to reach their potential after departing and playing Premiership football week in and week out..O'Shea must step out of his comfort zone to prove if he can be any use at all (which I doubt he will).

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None of these played anywhere near the amount of games that JOS has played at that level.. People used to say the same about David Fairclough and Ole

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Originally Posted by Shedender81

None of these played anywhere near the amount of games that JOS has played at that level.. People used to say the same about David Fairclough and Ole

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Did you see him embarrass himself again on Sunday? Way out of his depth and hasn't developed as a player due to lack of game time. You're obviously one of those blinkered Man U fans who discovered football around 1993 if you honestly think John O'Shea is anywhere near as good a player as Fairclough or Solksjaer were, truly ludicrous comparisons......

O'Shea does a job for the team when he comes in , every top team needs squad members who can come in when needed and do a competent job and he does that role to perfection , in a couple of years he might want to try playing at one of the mid ranking English clubs but for now why wouldn't he be happy where he is

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Originally Posted by Drumcondra 69er

Did you see him embarrass himself again on Sunday? Way out of his depth and hasn't developed as a player due to lack of game time. You're obviously one of those blinkered Man U fans who discovered football around 1993 if you honestly think John O'Shea is anywhere near as good a player as Fairclough or Solksjaer were, truly ludicrous comparisons......

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If you look again at that game you will notice that Wes brown was the defender that most appeared out of his depth. Downing was destroying him in the first half. When O'Shea was put on him in the second half, Downing was quiet. I saw it myself against Middlesborough 2 seasons ago. For the first half Viduka was destorying Wes Brown. In the second half JOS was put on Viduka and he managed him quite well. Skys coverage at half time at the weekend was quite sickening. They were saying Wes was poor because he had to cover so many time for O'Shea. this was very clearly not the case

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Originally Posted by Drumcondra 69er

Did you see him embarrass himself again on Sunday? Way out of his depth and hasn't developed as a player due to lack of game time. You're obviously one of those blinkered Man U fans who discovered football around 1993 if you honestly think John O'Shea is anywhere near as good a player as Fairclough or Solksjaer were, truly ludicrous comparisons......

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Such a complete rubbished.. I am far from Blinkered... But your bias is obvious . O'Shea is a decent footballer nothing more nothing less...

In his postion how many players would leave Man Utd , He plays lots of games as the stats show and any move from UTD is a downward move. He was off course totally to blame for Sunday .
Ref to Ole was in 1999 he was accused of having no desire to play as he was just a sub at ManU

Fairclough was a good SUB... but who did he play for after Liverpool ???

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Fairclough //.. Fairclough's scored his one and only Liverpool hat-trick on the 9 February 1980 during the thrilling 5-3 league victory over Norwich City at Carrow Road, the goals came in the 4th, 18th and 75th minutes, Kenny Dalglish (88th} and Jimmy Case (89th) guaranteed a late win for the Reds.

Fairclough spent another five years at Anfield in what was a golden era for the club, he was mostly out of the first team. He was a prolific scorer in the reserves, but the phenomenal partnership of Dalglish and Ian Rush rendered him surplus to first team requirements - the two main strikers also rarely were injured.

The supersub tag ultimately shrouded his number of first team starts with Liverpool - of his 153 appearances, only 61 were from the bench. He scored 55 goals, averaging a goal every 2¾ games.

David left Liverpool on the 4 July 1983 joining NASL side Toronto Blizzard, he then moved on to Swiss side FC Lucerne before returning to England to have spells with Norwich and Oldham Athletic. He plied his trade abroad once more at Belgium club Beveren returning to home shores for stints with Rochdale, Tranmere Rovers and Wigan Athletic, he ended his playing days at non-league Knowsley.


Sounds like a player in the COMFORT ZONE to me... !!!

Mind some stats say it all...... John O'Shea had a shooting accuracy of 100% and scored with 80% of his shots in the 2006-2007 season. He scored as many Premiership Goals as Chelsea's £30m record signing, former European Player of the Year, Andriy Shevchenko ...

Andriy were did it all go wrong !!!!!!!!!!!!!11

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Originally Posted by Shedender81

Such a complete rubbished.. I am far from Blinkered... But your bias is obvious . O'Shea is a decent footballer nothing more nothing less...

In his postion how many players would leave Man Utd , He plays lots of games as the stats show and any move from UTD is a downward move. He was off course totally to blame for Sunday .
Ref to Ole was in 1999 he was accused of having no desire to play as he was just a sub at ManU

Fairclough was a good SUB... but who did he play for after Liverpool ???

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Fairclough //.. Fairclough's scored his one and only Liverpool hat-trick on the 9 February 1980 during the thrilling 5-3 league victory over Norwich City at Carrow Road, the goals came in the 4th, 18th and 75th minutes, Kenny Dalglish (88th} and Jimmy Case (89th) guaranteed a late win for the Reds.

Fairclough spent another five years at Anfield in what was a golden era for the club, he was mostly out of the first team. He was a prolific scorer in the reserves, but the phenomenal partnership of Dalglish and Ian Rush rendered him surplus to first team requirements - the two main strikers also rarely were injured.

The supersub tag ultimately shrouded his number of first team starts with Liverpool - of his 153 appearances, only 61 were from the bench. He scored 55 goals, averaging a goal every 2¾ games.

David left Liverpool on the 4 July 1983 joining NASL side Toronto Blizzard, he then moved on to Swiss side FC Lucerne before returning to England to have spells with Norwich and Oldham Athletic. He plied his trade abroad once more at Belgium club Beveren returning to home shores for stints with Rochdale, Tranmere Rovers and Wigan Athletic, he ended his playing days at non-league Knowsley.


Sounds like a player in the COMFORT ZONE to me... !!!

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Seeing as you're obviously relatively new to the game you're probably not aware that when Fairclough played there was only one sub allowed, being in the 12 for a team like Liverpool were back then is a hell of a lot more challenging then occasionally making the 16 for Man U these days.

O'Shea is an average footballer who, while occasionally looks good and shows some nice touches, finds it incapable of concentrating for 90 minutes and is more often then not a liability. Anyone trying to argue otherwise obviously knows little about the game and hasn't watched Ireland play in the last 5 years. I'd be delighted to see him improve and become a mainstay of the Irish team but while he's getting splinters in his ar5e instead of playing regulalry that's not going to happen. It was the same with Miller, sat on the bench instead of playing games totally stalled his development.

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Originally Posted by Drumcondra 69er

Did you see him embarrass himself again on Sunday? Way out of his depth and hasn't developed as a player due to lack of game time. You're obviously one of those blinkered Man U fans who discovered football around 1993 if you honestly think John O'Shea is anywhere near as good a player as Fairclough or Solksjaer were, truly ludicrous comparisons......

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i think you were watching a diff game than i was. not at fault for either goal utd conceeded. take the blinkers off. some on here are only dying for o'shea to slip up. really pathetic

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Originally Posted by jbyrne

i think you were watching a diff game than i was. not at fault for either goal utd conceeded. take the blinkers off. some on here are only dying for o'shea to slip up. really pathetic

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Sorry mate but I'm not that shallow. I'd like to see him play week in week out and do well. O'Shea was poor on Sunday, can't see how you'd argue otherwise. He doesn't have to have a Switzerland / Czech Republic abberation to have a bad game. Simply not having a howler isn't enough. Laughable seeing all the Man U fans defending him, at least there's a few out there who can see through the red tinted glasses.

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Originally Posted by jbyrne

i think you were watching a diff game than i was. not at fault for either goal utd conceeded. take the blinkers off. some on here are only dying for o'shea to slip up. really pathetic

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The most anyone of reasonably sound mind could state on here was that O'Shea was an average but versatile performer for United. I possibly wouldn't even rate him that highly but that is the most positive assessment that any sane person could attribute to his abilites as a United player.

For Ireland, however, he has been absolute tosh for nigh on the best part of 7 years now and anyone who disagrees really needs to watch him in a green shirt. Since I don't care in the slightest how he performs for United as I personally am an Ireland supporter and this is an Ireland forum I'd suggest that the fact mentioned above is the one we should be devoting our time to.

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Originally Posted by youngirish

The most anyone of reasonably sound mind could state on here was that O'Shea was an average but versatile performer for United. I possibly wouldn't even rate him that highly but that is the most positive assessment that any sane person could attribute to his abilites as a United player.

For Ireland, however, he has been absolute tosh for nigh on the best part of 7 years now and anyone who disagrees really needs to watch him in a green shirt. Since I don't care in the slightest how he performs for United as I personally am an Ireland supporter and this is an Ireland forum I'd suggest that the fact mentioned above is the one we should be devoting our time to.

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He has not been great... but has been one of our more consistant performers... Remember look at the team his played in !!! Also would we be so harsh on him if the chance in Paris had gone in... It seems that Jason McAtter is a hero for one finish ..... I think for O'Shea and some others the time is due to step up to the plate in an Irish jersey... Under Trap the focus will be the players and can they work within what he wants.....

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Originally Posted by Shedender81

He has not been great... but has been one of our more consistant performers... Remember look at the team his played in !!! Also would we be so harsh on him if the chance in Paris had gone in... It seems that Jason McAtter is a hero for one finish ..... I think for O'Shea and some others the time is due to step up to the plate in an Irish jersey... Under Trap the focus will be the players and can they work within what he wants.....

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Yeah, consitently sh1t. And his miss in Paris doesn't even come into that, errors against the Swiss and Czechs were far more costly for a start.

McAteer was so much better in an Ireland shirt then O'Shea has been so far that it's not funny. And that's allowing for some very avergae performances from McAteer. 'a hero for one finish' :rolleyes::D....

I have to wonder how long have you've watched Ireland for? Let me guess, you're a traditionally blinkered Man U fan (hence your baffling defence of O'Shea) who idolised Roy Keane and have a problem with McAteer due to his spat with his corkness? Correct?

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Originally Posted by youngirish

For Ireland, however, he has been absolute tosh for nigh on the best part of 7 years now

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complete overstatement. no manager will ever pick a player that consistently plays badly. fact

How about the following ;

Jeff Chandler
John Devine
Pierce O'Leary
Pat Byrne
Mick Kennedy (nutter)
Ken DeMange
Alan Kernaghan
Mick Kearns
Jerry Murphy

Are ye STILL talking about John O'Shea?