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Kevin Moran has said Trapattoni's first phone call should be to Stephen Ireland. Thats nonsense. His first should be AOB, Steve Finnan should be second and Stephen Ireland third.
We need these players, fit, happy and in their natural positions. But given our lack of defenders the AOB and Finnan are crucial to our chances
Not a hope. That kind of a precedent does not need to be set. If a player wants to represent his country, he should be doing everything in his power to be included. Let them learn their lesson and an example be made for future internationals.Quote:
Originally Posted by backtowalsall
But if a player will improve our chances of winning games then the manager should do everything possible to get that player back. I don't like managers having to 'plead' with players to come back, but it is sometimes necessary.Quote:
Originally Posted by GavinZac
Why? International football should not be win at all costs - thats what club football is for. International football is about pride and you can be god damn sure that a Samoan international feels twice the pride going out and being slaughtered in every for his country than some rat who can take it or leave it.Quote:
Originally Posted by jmurphyc
I wouldn't be pleading with anyone. but they all have their reasons for retiring. It is the professional thing to do to discuss what those reasons are and see if they can be rectified.
Lee Carsley for example agreed with stan that he doesn't get called up to a friendly squad unless he is going to play, and as he has young family including a son with Down's syndrome I see nothing wrong with that.
Stephen Ireland lost a child, and made a few mistakes in how he handled it, He is only 21 and is possibly feeling embarrassed about how he handled the situation, whilst attempting to grieve for a child he never knew. If he for whatever reason doesn't feel able to make that call it is the coaches job to do what he can to make things easier. Managing a professional football team is about more than telling them to play 442 and keep a high line, its as much about managing people as being a manager in a shop or office.
We don't know why AOB retired, but Kevin Kilbane has eluded there are good reasons. It is up to Trapattoni to find out what these are and what can be done to solve these problems.
I love my country, and I'm sure Steve Finnan, Steven Ireland and Andy O'Brien do too. But if i have to choose between my family and kicking a ball for Ireland there will only ever be one winner. I don't really want the man who would put football above his wife or children in an Irish shirt tbh.
Captain tonight for Bolton in their UEFA cup match against Sporting Lisbon. Interestingly they are winning 1-0. In cracking form this year and hopefully he will come back to us
Given the appalling abuse he has been subjected to on this site I don't blame him one bit.
Frankly we are lucky we still have the likes of Keane (I'm awaiting the sardonic reply already).
Much like politics it seems that we are ever deserving of the team we get!
Yeah Andy O Brien retired because a few guys on foot.ie said he had a shocker against Cyprus.
Neil I thought the same from what paddy said above :D
We don't know anything about why Andy O'Brien has retired, absolutlety zilch.Quote:
Originally Posted by Paddy Garcia
Some people are using his retirement to have their dig at Irish management or Irish fans, based on their own speculative idea that Andy is somehow a sensitive soul, easily crushed by criticism.
I obviously don't think he retired cos of this site:confused: He has been criticised about much more then the Cyprus game by the way. Usually (esp Cyprus) by those who don't understand how a midfield is supposed to work.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeilMcD
However, given how may of you think he is a waste of space why on earth do you want him back now. I do think Irish fans get the team and management they deserve & until recently that has been a bit crap.
Keep knocking your best players & don't be surprised if they a) lack confidence; b) play poorly or c) retire. Keane, Kilbane, etc - we are lucky to still have them turning up. 20 years ago we would have supported them to the hilt & the supporters would have helped to build confidence and a team spirit - which usually resulted in a winning performance. I'm sure you know best - a quick proverbial kick in the ribs will keep them in their place.
arguably you cant argue with that argument so i wont agree to disagree.
Some of the nonsense stated on here about Andy O'Brien makes me laugh. Ill informed tripe as usual the majority of it which will be proved with time. On his best form Andy O'Brien is a very average defender who will do a job (but little more) against average teams with average strikers. On poor form he can cost us the game. He was responsible for giving away that ridiculous free kick against Germany in the last qualifiers in a very dangerous position while under very little pressure that cost us that game also but as usual the goldfish forget that and keep bringing up the Cyprus game as if that was his only poor performance. If we are relying on the likes of A O'Brien to drag us to the WC in 2010 then we are in trouble before we start.
Most of the heads on here grieving after Andy O'Briens retirement are generally the same heads that were stating that he was rubbish after Cyprus and that McShane was the next Franz Beckenbauer but now after he's had a few decent games with those powers of world football Bolton they've changed their tune. They'll be shouting for JOS to be restored to central midfield for us again after he has a couple of good games for United in that position.
If a player retires because he's received criticism from the fans or the media then I worry about the state of todays players. IN AOB's case, criticism was deserved for the most part and he has never looked the assured defender for us. I think he was unnecessarily and unprofessionally made a scapegoat after the Cyprus and Stans comments about him were appalling.
I would not be begging the players to come back, i would approach them, question their reasons for retiring and request them to consider returning. At the end of the day I would prefer to have as many players playing top level football available. however, you also want their attitude and commitment to be right. As I've said here before, we didnt see the likes of McCarthy, McGrath, Houghton etc etc retiring early and there is no doubt they gave their all for Ireland right till the end, we need the same kind of attitude from our current crop of players.
sadly elroy things have most definitely changed in that regard. with todays wages playing for ones country (at least if you are a top league player anyway) doesnt have the same appeal it did years ago. a sad indictment of the current state of international ball.
I wouldnt say that the majority of players feel like that but theres definitely a sizable minority who just go through the motions nowadays whilst playing for their country-i mean look at that england team that didnt qualify-what a disgrace.
Out of interest, Andy O'Brien had a Q & A on his twitter that I've seen transcribed on a Leeds message board. Couple of interesting snippets.....
Q: @AndyOBriens best memory playing for Ireland?
A: @flickybig being part of the 2002 world cup squad
Q: @AndyOBriens what's been the proudest moment in your footballing career so far? smile.gif
A: @Leanne_Cohen being a part of every major competition, prem league,champs league,uefa cup,world cup
Q: @AndyOBriens Who was the best singer in the Ireland set-up in your time?
A: @ballsdotie Andy Reid, class on the guitar aswel!
Q: @AndyOBriens Would you still say you are 'available' for international duty? If Trap called would you decline?
A: @JamesLeeds72 good questions, id definitely consider it!
Q: @AndyOBriens. Dia duit I'm from cavanlol would you ever join the irish senior team agen if trap called ?
A @nialloreilly99 i'd welcome the call if he chose to ring
Q: @AndyOBriens Whats the biggest and proudest game you have played in??
A: @kelstu1487 i'd say biggest the draw against france for ireland at the stade de france in front of 80k
Q: @AndyOBriens as tweeting from Ireland wht do u think of the irish soccer team now and he needs to pick bruce wht do u think gud man
A: @dcleeds thought we were robbed in the play offs, alex is playing very well and surely cant be far of a call
Q: @AndyOBriens are you availible to play for Ireland still? Perhaps yourself and Brucie would work....
A: @Rayber8 you never know
Still worth a place in the squad for me....
Nice to hear, but...Quote:
Originally Posted by Drumcondra 69er
Lets hope Trap doesn't read itQuote:
Originally Posted by Drumcondra 69er
Andy would be a useful option to have IMO. Bring him back.
who are we dropping so?
Drop Paul McShane. Dunne, St. Ledger, Clark and O'Brien wouldn't be bad options with O'Shea well capable of playing there too.Quote:
Originally Posted by SkStu
O'Dea, McShane...
you had me at McShane.Quote:
Originally Posted by TrapAPony
So he's retired from international football but expects Trap to ring him up?
Was just going to say this, if retired and a few years ago at that and has, to the best of my knowledge, never expressed an interest to return until now. and at that its via twitter. Judging by the response it does appear genuine. Certainly worth a squad place?Quote:
Originally Posted by boovidge
I'd rather develop Bruce, O'Dea, Duffy and Clark than call him back.
Yes, and in reverse order!
Bruce is already developed, so you'd be thinking more in the lines of a transformation.
O'Brien is a top quality centre back in my opinion, who hasn't had much luck in the last few years. Unfairly blamed for the Cyprus debacle and a few transfers that didn't work out. Hopefully a promotion back to the premier league with a big club is on the cards. Its where he should be.
If there is any chance he is considering coming back, Trap should be on the phone to see if he can be nudged in the right direction.
Just read there that O'Brien doesn't have an agent and his dad gives him a hand negotiating deals. His dad called Ken Bates fat recently. O'Brien may possibly be sounder than I had given him credit for.
He is an okay player but lacks pace which is a big drawback as the quality of opposition improves.Quote:
Originally Posted by backtowalsall
Always thought he was mobile for a tall guy myself.
O'Brien's OK, but a stopgap measure at best. Bruce also, though less so.
Clark should be cultivated to play C/B, initially along Dunne or St.Ledger. With hopefully O'Dea & Duffy in reserve. The latter has to get back to full fitness for next season and hopefully first team football, if not at Everton, then at loan a division below.
Delaney at Ipswich could also be worth a shout, but doubtful he'd ever be PL status?
I have watched him against fast players and he actually appeared to be running backwards.Quote:
Originally Posted by irishfan86
Even at that I would say that he is deceptive in that he is slower than he looks (to steal the Tommy Doherty quote about Leighton James from way back then)
Can agree with most of that. Clark and Duffy are probably our default centre back partnership for this decade (I thought the same about Dunne & O'Brien after the 2002 WC). Unfortunately O'Brien has missed what should have been the best the years of his international career. I'm not talking about his being in the first 11, but as an option in the squad I think he is certainly better than McShane, O'Dea, Bruce, Delaney etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
He hasn't really had much luck since Bobby Robson got sacked by Newcastle. Looked a real prospect with Bradford in the Premier League, and was fulfilling his potential with Newcastle, as one half of a cracking partnership with Jonathan Woodgate. But then Souness came in to St. James Park and didn't really fancy him, then off to Portsmouth, only for Harry Redknapp to come in and not really fancy him, then off to Bolton and Gary Megson, only for Coyle to come in and not really fancy him.
Better than McShane, but a different sort of player. The point is he's barely PL quality at best, whereas O'Dea still could be and as St.Ledger/Duffy will also prove by next season.
Amazed no-one's come in for St.L, but maybe his stock has fallen like AO'B's??
Three top flight mangers not picking you isn't bad luck.Quote:
Originally Posted by backtowalsall
See above re. being 'PL quality', sadly.
Robson picked him, every week. I'd take a fit Bobby Robson, god rest his soul, over any of the three that didn't like the look of him.Quote:
Originally Posted by SwanVsDalton
Hardly matters. O'Brien had plenty of top flight chances and never really established himself but it wasn't because of bad fortune.Quote:
Originally Posted by backtowalsall
O'Dea will ever have half the career O'Brien had, mark my words, he's played in the region of 300 games in the Premier League, O'Dea didn't make it in the SPL....Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy