Spotlight

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by boovidge

England don't either

---

It's GSTGL. She's the queen of England and the rest of Britain is her domain. If she was Queen of Britain she'd QE1 not QE2. English and British culture and history is so intertwined that I doubt that you could really distinguish between an English and British anthem. Hence too what our Northern friends, if the would allow me to term, 'superprods' - don't want to be called a bigot - of the Billy Hutchinson, Johnny Adair, Grugg Greig type supporting England. The two things are to them interchangeable.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GavinZac

They aren't from Great Britain. Great Britain is an island. .

---

No need to be pednatic you know what i meant...united kingdom, britain..etc

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GavinZac

They don't have an anthem as they havent fought a war, which is when anthems tend to get written..

---

Oh so what famous battle did wales win then when they penned The Land Of My Fathers. or scotland when the sing flower of scotland.. ?shot yourself in the foot there..

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GavinZac

Her Madge is their head of state...

---

She is also the head of state for wales and scotland, but they dont bleet on about it the whole time..'Her madge' ur havin a laugh zac..

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GavinZac

Its Ireland because we call it so. The next people inhabitting it could return to calling it Hibernia, or maybe make up something new. Gnarknar, maybe?
You don't like democracy, no?...

---

No ireland is the island of ireland..some NI fans despise being called Irish..democracy..have you done your history son? plantation is democracy? gerrmandering ?, civil rights violations?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GavinZac

Yes you do. You don't think they're Irish, while im sure most of them would realise that been born on the island of ireland makes you irish, by definition of what "irish" is. You've made all the arguments yourself, son.

---

yeah i believe that but, SOME NI fans dont participate in that notion, they would rather be acknowledged as ulstermen , ulsterscotsmen or subjects of her majesty...

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/comme...451206,00.html


Get our teeth into that..obviously according to EGs logic this journo is a bigot also!!

P.S. You might want to try a little bit of punctuation in your posts. Unless, of course, you are conducting some sort of subversive protest against "the Queen's English"...:rolleyes:[/QUOTE]

Cheers for the english lesson. You sound just like my old school teacher fool of s*it

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by citizenerased

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/comme...451206,00.html


Get our teeth into that..obviously according to EGs logic this journo is a bigot also!!

---

Henry McDonald is a perceptive and informed journalist, for whom I personally have a lot of time. I would never call him a "bigot" (or even "biggot"), if for no other reason than that he doesn't appear to make up lies or recall inaccurate and offensive tales told to him by a "mate".

As for what he wrote here, I prefer to take his report as a whole, including the bit where he wrote:
"The young Dubliner [O'Callaghan] was gracious a few days later on BBC's Talkback radio programme when he stressed that the overwhelming majority of Northern Ireland fans were well-behaved and untainted by the sectarianism of the few"

Of course, O'Callaghan's considered words don't surprise me in the least, since it exactly reflects the behaviour of the 6,000 (genuine) NI fans with whom I went to Old Trafford for the match he is describing.

Consequently, I wasn't in the Bot. However, having seen an account which I trust by someone who was there, it seems that the overwhelming majority of people were having a great time - especially when the girl with the mighty bazookas finally "got them out for the lads" (and the TV cameras!) - only for the atmosphere to be temporarily spoiled when a couple of ****ed-up wee spides seized their opportunity to achieve their 15 seconds of fame by singing their sectarian filth. I say "temporarily" since, as I understand it, they were chucked out by the bouncers almost straightaway.

Anyhow, shouldn't you be researching the geneology, behaviour and background of the NI players, not the fans, seeing as how your previous posts on them have been so comprehensively dismantled?

Or were you hoping we might forget...:eek:

Im not suprised by that article. Ive read and heard simular stories recently. Even if Sectarianism has been toned down in Winsor Park it is as vile as ever in Pubs around before and after games. And as for away games, i wont even go there.

And there will be an AI team in the long run. Demographics will see to that. As the reporter said having too teams on such a small island is lucricous

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by lopez

It's GSTGL. She's the queen of England and the rest of Britain is her domain. If she was Queen of Britain she'd QE1 not QE2. English and British culture and history is so intertwined that I doubt that you could really distinguish between an English and British anthem.

---

I disagree. The monarch was King/Queen of England and Scotland before the two Kingdoms merged. Therefore if the Union split she'd still be the Queen of Scotland. So as the anthem represents Scotland, Wales and NI too, England doesn't have it's own anthem. Hence why the English nationalists want Jerusalem or some other song at England games instead of GSTQ. They don't see Englishness and Britishness as the same thing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by citizenerased

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/comme...451206,00.html


Get our teeth into that..obviously according to EGs logic this journo is a bigot also!!

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EalingGreen

Henry McDonald is a perceptive and informed journalist, for whom I personally have a lot of time. I would never call him a "bigot" (or even "biggot"), if for no other reason than that he doesn't appear to make up lies or recall inaccurate and offensive tales told to him by a "mate".

...:eek:

---

Well if you're going to be that annoyingly pedantic EG i think someone should correct you, its bigot, not biggot.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hibernian

P.S. You might want to try a little bit of punctuation in your posts. Unless, of course, you are conducting some sort of subversive protest against "the Queen's English"...:rolleyes:

---

"Cheers for the english lesson. You sound just like my old school teacher fool of s*it"[/QUOTE]

It wasn't a lesson, it was a suggestion. And if the teacher to whom you refer was your English teacher, you might have been better advised to listen to him/her, since your original post was illiterate to the point of being incomprehensible.

Speaking of which, have you any comment on the reported remarks by Neil Lennon, or do you not consider these relevant to the point which (I think) you were making about, ahem, Neil Lennon?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ireland4ever

Well if you're going to be that annoyingly pedantic EG i think someone should correct you, its bigot, not biggot.

---

I wasn't being pedantic; if you had read the earlier post to which I was referring, you'd see I was being sarcastic.

P.S. The "i" after EG (above) should be capitalised. Now that's pedantry for you! ;)

Oh for the love of God.. the next thing we will have Mr Parker on here with a complete chronological list of all our linguistic failings.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kingdomkerry

Im not suprised by that article. Ive read and heard simular stories recently. Even if Sectarianism has been toned down in Winsor Park it is as vile as ever in Pubs around before and after games. And as for away games, i wont even go there.

---

KK,
Have you been to many pubs in NI on matchdays? Have you visited many NI pubs on non-matchdays? Or even one?

And have you ever been to any NI away matches?

Do you believe everything you read?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kingdomkerry

And there will be an AI team in the long run. Demographics will see to that. As the reporter said having too teams on such a small island is lucricous

---

Just as it is ludicrous for an even tinier little island like Hong Kong to imagine it could keep its own, separate international football team, even after it had reverted to being part of by far the largest and most populous country in the world.

Oh wait, it has...;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kingdomkerry

Im not suprised by that article. Ive read and heard simular stories recently. Even if Sectarianism has been toned down in Winsor Park it is as vile as ever in Pubs around before and after games. And as for away games, i wont even go there.

And there will be an AI team in the long run. Demographics will see to that. As the reporter said having too teams on such a small island is lucricous

---

A

Ask Drogs fans what kind of reception they get when they go up there

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kingdomkerry

Im not suprised by that article. Ive read and heard simular stories recently. Even if Sectarianism has been toned down in Winsor Park it is as vile as ever in Pubs around before and after games. And as for away games, i wont even go there.

And there will be an AI team in the long run. Demographics will see to that. As the reporter said having too teams on such a small island is lucricous

---

And what anthem would be acceptable to both traditions in this AI team.Obviously not our one or GSTQ so that would leave.....Irelands Call:eek:
Maybe Fatboy Slim can do something with it for us.
The new flag acceptable to both sides could just have a picture of the chuckle brothers with big Ian playing the Harp and Martin sucking on a tin whistle.
New manager will be special K after he resigns from Newcastle with Dana as his assistant.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gustavo

A

Ask Drogs fans what kind of reception they get when they go up there

---

Ask any Southern clubs the reception they get.. any we have played anyway.

BACKTOWALSALL

If they lock northerners into playing for NI it will end up in a very messy court case in Belfast between FIFA and someone who wants to play for ROI U-21s or something

What would be the grounds for this court case?

Co.DOWN GREEN

Was speaking to a guy who helps run one of the Ireland supporters clubs in Belfast yesterday. He got wind of the programme a couple of weeks ago and contacted the BBC about taking part, he never received a reply.

Maybe they couldn’t understand the relevance of a rugby supporter wanting to be interviewed on a programme about football?

HOLIDAYSONG

I watched the show with my flatmate from Lisburn. He is a Northern Ireland fan and agreed that the FAI should be allowed call up players from Northern Ireland due to the GFA.

What’s it got to do with the GFA?

LOPEZ

She's the queen of England and the rest of Britain is her domain.

Nonsense. The Kingdom of England ceased to exist on 1st May 1707. You’re only 301 years out of date.

Only a few more years to go to get to King Billy.

The Eligibility threads are like a play where the lines in scenes 2 and 3 are word for the word the same as was spoken in scene 1.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by holidaysong

I watched the show with my flatmate from Lisburn. He is a Northern Ireland fan and agreed that the FAI should be allowed call up players from Northern Ireland due to the GFA. I don't agree with the FAI asking only players from one community in Northern Ireland. Asking young players from Derry and not from Lisburn to play for the ROI shows sectarianism on the part of the FAI in my opinion. Obviously, a lot of players from Lisburn aren't going to choose to play, but they should be asked. The same goes for the IFA, they should ensure that players from Derry are asked to play for Northern Ireland and not give the FAI a chance to make the players minds up for them. What struck me most from the show was that players want to be given an opportunity and whoever asks them first might be the most successful.

---

Why do you think the FAI wouldn't pick somebody from Lisburn? Since 1946 2 players who grew up in NI have played for us at senior level - Darron Gibson and Alan Kernaghan - one from a nationalist background and one from a unionist background.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kingdomkerry

Im not suprised by that article. Ive read and heard simular stories recently. Even if Sectarianism has been toned down in Winsor Park it is as vile as ever in Pubs around before and after games. And as for away games, i wont even go there.

And there will be an AI team in the long run. Demographics will see to that. As the reporter said having too teams on such a small island is lucricous

---

Maybe you should try attending games and see for yourself. Having attended Setanta Cup matches, Irish Cup finals and NI Internationals at WP in recent years the above is complete rubbish. I have a very obvious southern accent and was never in the least bit concerned re talking to anyone. I've also drank in a number of pubs before and after some of these games without a problem. There was one sectarian song sung by a small group at the Setanta Cup final. Linfield also had the ground covered in anti sectarinism posters. There clearly is a small minority still intent on prolonging it but hopefully they will be weeded out as well. This minority element appears to have been weeded out of the NI home support. I can't comment on away games.

Well this thread has turned into a load of bull****. Why must eve thread that involvesz Northern Ireland be completly and utterly boring

Well said Gspain and this is my main issue with some of the posts of this thread.Why do some people like to concentrate on the minority instead of crediting the fantastic strides achieved by the majority.Its so pointless and negative that unless you have an agenda to stereotype people it does not make sense.
The success of the Seatanta cup is imo vital to football Noth and South and I have very respect for supporters of Glens & Linfield who spend their money and time following their local team.
The supporters of these teams and of NI deserve huge credit for working hard to oust sectarian elements who they clearly dont want at their matches.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by boovidge

I disagree. The monarch was King/Queen of England and Scotland before the two Kingdoms merged. Therefore if the Union split she'd still be the Queen of Scotland. So as the anthem represents Scotland, Wales and NI too, England doesn't have it's own anthem. Hence why the English nationalists want Jerusalem or some other song at England games instead of GSTQ. They don't see Englishness and Britishness as the same thing.

---

I don't think you know how close Englishness as an identity and culture is associated with Britishness. Twenty years ago, England matches would have been decorated with UJs. The fact that this is now uncommon has less to do with any independence movement than a dislike of the other countries seeking to move away. In a nutshell, the view is, you go your way, but we'll keep everything we hold dear - the queen, cult of war, hating everybody else - the same.

As for 'Jerusalem'? I'd put more money on the Soldiers Song being played as the home anthem at Windsor Park.:D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Blanchflower

LOPEZ

She's the queen of England and the rest of Britain is her domain.

Nonsense. The Kingdom of England ceased to exist on 1st May 1707. You’re only 301 years out of date.

---

The two royals were joined in 1603 not 1707 when the King or Queen of England became head of states over the whole of the southern end of the Atlantic Archipeligo. The 'British' royalty is still deemed a descendent of the line from William the Conqueror - although not by blood - hence we have QE2 and not a new second QE1. Basically new name, same old monarchy. There is also the small matter of her role as head of the church of England and not the church of Scotland, which also brings her closer to Englishness than Scottishness.

Thanks for the history lesson though. I'll direct your post to the many muppets in this country that actually believe England is still a country which as you rightly say, has ceased to exist since 1707.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EalingGreen

"Cheers for the english lesson. You sound just like my old school teacher fool of s*it"

---

It wasn't a lesson, it was a suggestion. And if the teacher to whom you refer was your English teacher, you might have been better advised to listen to him/her, since your original post was illiterate to the point of being incomprehensible.

Speaking of which, have you any comment on the reported remarks by Neil Lennon, or do you not consider these relevant to the point which (I think) you were making about, ahem, Neil Lennon?[/QUOTE]

there is no ahem about it, it was about Neil Lennon so I am not sure if you actually did read my post which you seem to have considered incomprehensible (nice big word from you fair play)

Anyway, Neil Lennon only made those comments so too make peace he did not mean those lets be honest and bigger picture is not expressed in what he said.

Just cause it is improving don't expect to get a round of applause. Your national following has a major disease which is a pity but it is around and that's sad that Norn Iron have been this way for so long and will for some time.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EalingGreen

...Consequently, I wasn't in the Bot. However, having seen an account which I trust by someone who was there, it seems that the overwhelming majority of people were having a great time - especially when the girl with the mighty bazookas finally "got them out for the lads" (and the TV cameras!) - only for the atmosphere to be temporarily spoiled when a couple of ****ed-up wee spides seized their opportunity to achieve their 15 seconds of fame by singing their sectarian filth. I say "temporarily" since, as I understand it, they were chucked out by the bouncers almost straightaway...

---

I was in the Bot after the game in 1994 and before the NI v Spain game of 2003. It struck me as a nationalist pub back then as during the latter there were just people getting ready to watch the Ireland v Georgia game.

While we're getting all self righteous in redefining the meaning of 'bigot', 'bazookas' and getting 'them out for the lads' might be found more offensive by women supporters than some w*nk Rangers 'sectarian filth'.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by cheifo

Well said Gspain and this is my main issue with some of the posts of this thread.Why do some people like to concentrate on the minority instead of crediting the fantastic strides achieved by the majority.Its so pointless and negative that unless you have an agenda to stereotype people it does not make sense...

---

As been done to death before, the sectarianism of a minority, no matter how small, no matter how long ago, is a reason cited for many NI nationalists prefering to support Ireland.

I would take the sectarianism or bigotry within a minority of our fans if I could get Croke Park, Lansdowne Road or our away games rocking like the Kop was when I was last at Windsor Park. But then the FAI's only worries about offending and alienating a minority the size of what nationalists are in the 6C is currently whether any Northern Unionists would be put off from playing for them because of this.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by lopez

While we're getting all self righteous in redefining the meaning of 'bigot', 'bazookas' and getting 'them out for the lads' might be found more offensive by women supporters .

---

agreed i much prefer to use the word "bazumbas" myself.

Thread involving NI descends into finger pointing and "clarification" again.

Brilliant.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by lopez

The two royals were joined in 1603 not 1707 when the King or Queen of England became head of states over the whole of the southern end of the Atlantic Archipeligo.

---

No, no, no. The two crowns were united in one person (James VI of Scotland) but remained separate titles and separate kingdoms. In 1707 the two kingdoms were united and the separate kingdoms of England and Scotland ceased to exist.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by lopez

and the The 'British' royalty is still deemed a descendent of the line from William the Conqueror - although not by blood - hence we have QE2 and not a new second QE1.

---

It's also descended from the Scottish line!

She's called QE2 because the numbering of titles is taken from the English line. That does not mean that the kingdom of England still exists.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by lopez

Basically new name, same old monarchy.

---

Except it was actually the Scottish line that took over the English line!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by lopez

There is also the small matter of her role as head of the church of England and not the church of Scotland, which also brings her closer to Englishness than Scottishness.

---

Oh dear:o. She's actually head of the Church of Scotland, too!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hibernian

Anyway, Neil Lennon only made those comments so too make peace he did not mean those lets be honest and bigger picture is not expressed in what he said.

---

So Lennon is basically a liar, then? Even if you think this to be the case, what reason would he have for doing so? Why would he need "to keep the peace?" - especially with those who formerly abused him? He was long since retired from international football when he said this and was living in GB, so the "war" was long over - he didn't have to say anything.

The facts are these. Lennon was abused by a minority, then threatened by an individual. It must have been a very worrying time, but it was years ago. In the intervening period, things have improved enormously, which he generously acknowledged in a tape which he made specially for the IFA (afaik, he couldn't attend because he was on Celtic duty).

For you to harp on about the original offence, then try to discredit the evidence which demonstrates that things have moved on, indicates to me that you are not interested in progress; rather, you are stuck in the past with your petty prejudices. Just like the people who booed Lennon, in fact.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hibernian

Just cause it is improving don't expect to get a round of applause.

---

No-one is expecting applause. But we don't expect - and won't accept - criticism which is unfair, misrepresentative, out-of-date and frankly prejudiced, either. And certainly not from people who clearly have little or no knowledge of what is really going on.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hibernian

Your national following has a major disease which is a pity but it is around and that's sad that Norn Iron have been this way for so long and will for some time.

---

Nor do we need the likes of you to tell us what is wrong with our sport. We are well aware of it and are doing our utmost to deal with this "disease". Speaking of which, following events in Dublin in the years since the Lennon incident - e.g. the booing of Rangers players, or the anti-semitism when Israel came to town - I might point out that your team is hardly immune from the disease, either.

Yet I have no doubt that those actions were those of a tiny and unrepresentative minority, abhorred by the overwhelmingly decent majority. Consequently, I am more than happy that the FAI and fans will deal with it, without benefit of my less than informed opinion.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EalingGreen

or the anti-semitism when Israel came to town .

---

Give me quotes from a reputable news paper about anti-semitism from Irish Supporters during that game or take back this bull**** statement.

No He said She said, show me a quote , or apologise immediately.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by lopez

While we're getting all self righteous in redefining the meaning of 'bigot', 'bazookas' and getting 'them out for the lads' might be found more offensive by women supporters than some w*nk Rangers 'sectarian filth'.

---

I'd have thought the young lady in question, who appeared to need little encouragement to expose her breasts, is the one who should be explaining herself to her feminist sisters. At the very least, I am quite certain that she won't have been offended by my terminology!

Besides, if the worst we can be accused of is sexism, then I'd have to say that that's an advance over the usual criticism we receive...;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by lopez

As been done to death before, the sectarianism of a minority, no matter how small, no matter how long ago, is a reason cited for many NI nationalists prefering to support Ireland.

---

Now we are at the nub of the whole issue. There is no doubt that sectarianism is a reason (the chief reason?) why many NI Nats choose ROI over NI.

However, there are two qualifications which I think need to be made which are at least as important, but invariably get overlooked against the complaints of the "Whatabout Neil Lennon Brigade" (e.g. Hibernian or Kingdom Kerry).

First, at least some of those NI Nats are unaware of the massive improvements which have been made in recent years, which if they were, might cause them to change their stance. (I say "at least some", since others may be aware, but either refuse to accept it or they are using "sectarianism" as a pretext to conceal the fact that they still wouldn't support NI even if the sectarianism and politics - flag, anthem etc - were completely removed)

Second, whatever vestigial sectarianism remains, it is now so reduced and contained as not to be serious enough to prevent any NI Nat from attending and supporting the team entirely without fear or alarm. Yet when even neutrals like Gspain with direct and up-to-date experience point this out, their testimony gets drowned by the chorus of naysayers and begrudgers.

[Which incidentally may also serve to explain to ROI fans - especially those actually from the Republic - why "Not Brazil" and myself and others spend so much time on forums like this "fighting the good fight". We're proud that things are much better and we want more people from all backgrounds to be aware of it and join us. Above all, we're sick to death of being demonised as bigots etc by people whose own ignorance and denial in the face of the facts actually marks them down as more deserving of such an epithet than us.]

EG, while you tend to write well and offer sensible rebuffal to some of the antagonism shown to you here I think you've really let yourself down on the charges of anti-semitism. There was booing (at Awat's cheating for example) and there was whistling (like home supporters do when the opposition is in possession), just like you get at all football matches and yes, there was even an organised political demonstration in town before the game, but only a crank intent on besmirching our good name could offer a charge of anti-semitism.

Regarding the booing of Rangers players it's sad that the younger element in our support boo players because of which British team they play for. It happens to Liverpool and MUFC players in Dublin too. However, I would say that in no way was this booing related to the religion of the players in question, it was just because they played for Celtic's rivals, a club with a past of anti Irishness and sectarianism, and we all know that an element in our support wrongly see Celtic and Ireland as interchangable. Anyone present at the Denmark game (Peter Madsen being mistaken for Lovenkrands) will tell you that it was pantomime booing, with little or no real intensity. The booing was wrong but not least because it gave those who would be so inclined a stick to beat us with.

Even if you don't gree with my second point (many don't) you've stepped right out of line with the anti-semitism charge and you'd be well advised to return to offering your frequently interesting football insights if you're to retain my respect on this forum.

Why is it when Im reading EGs post the voice of Ian Paisley is narrating them in my head?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Blanchflower

...Oh dear:o. She's actually head of the Church of Scotland, too!

---

Funny the Church of Scotland has not been told this.

http://www.churchofscotland.org.uk/o...n/orgqueen.htm

'The Queen is not the supreme governor of the Church of Scotland, as she is in the Church of England. The sovereign has the right to attend the General Assembly, but not to take part in its deliberations.' doesn't sound much of a head of church.

Actually, I didn't know she had any role in the church. As a presbyterian church, with my lack of religious knowledge, I bleived that preachers etc. are elected from bottom up, by the 'presbytery' and therefore a lack of bishops. Also I would have thought the difference in the religions, the fact that dissenters were discriminated until the mid 19th century by the established church, would have excluded any role in this church from Brenda apart from some form of 'patron'. TBH, her own religion is closer to mine than it is to theirs. Incidentally, is she head of the Church of Wales and the Church of Ireland?

Anyway, I've little time to be discussing Britain's number one family on benefits on a thread devoted to North-South(sic.) footballing relations.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by citizenerased

Why is it when Im reading EGs post the voice of Ian Paisley is narrating them in my head?

---

And why is that when I read your posts that the voice of a ignorant, spoilt, teenager comes to my mind? My friend's, sister's flatmate's mother's lover told me that he thinks the same.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EalingGreen

Now we are at the nub of the whole issue. There is no doubt that sectarianism is a reason (the chief reason?) why many NI Nats choose ROI over NI...

---

After 800 odd posts, a very sensible one at last...Especially as it follows a post - regarding the anti-semitism of Irish fans - that charachterises so much of your bullsh*t.

lock it up lads

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wolfie

Ealing Green et all should be along any minute now for yet another entertaining cross boarder debate we all know and love.................................

---

Could I change my username to Nostrodamus? :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by lopez

'The Queen is not the supreme governor of the Church of Scotland, as she is in the Church of England. The sovereign has the right to attend the General Assembly, but not to take part in its deliberations.' doesn't sound much of a head of church.

Actually, I didn't know she had any role in the church. As a presbyterian church, with my lack of religious knowledge, I bleived that preachers etc. are elected from bottom up, by the 'presbytery' and therefore a lack of bishops.

---

Well, as you point out, the nature of the CofS (presbyterian) means that the Queen is not its "supreme governor", but the point is that the CofS is the established church in Scotland like the CofE is established in England. Each church has equal status and her greater role in the English church is because of how that church is governed.

"In the United Kingdom, The Queen's title includes the words 'Defender of the Faith'.
This means Her Majesty has a specific role in both the Church of England and the Church of Scotland.
As established Churches, they are recognised by law as the official Churches of England and Scotland, respectively. In both England and Scotland, the established Churches are subject to the regulation of law."
http://www.qmmemorial.gov.uk/output/Page4697.asp

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by lopez

Also I would have thought the difference in the religions, the fact that dissenters were discriminated until the mid 19th century by the established church, would have excluded any role in this church from Brenda apart from some form of 'patron'.

---

Er, in Scotland the established church was and is presbyterian!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by lopez

Incidentally, is she head of the Church of Wales and the Church of Ireland?

---

No - the former was disestablished in 1920 and the latter in 1871. So you're only 88 years and 137 years out of date on those ones.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RogerMilla

Give me quotes from a reputable news paper about anti-semitism from Irish Supporters during that game or take back this bull**** statement.

No He said She said, show me a quote , or apologise immediately.

---

OK, I will apologise and withdraw what was a lazy piece of shorthand and replace it with "politically motivated anti-Israeli abuse", if you prefer.

And if you want evidence of this "politically motivated anti-Israeli abuse", I don't need to point to "a reputable newspaper", I can do even better than that, namely this very forum!

Or have you forgotten "Today I'm ashamed to be Irish"?
http://foot.ie/archive/index.php/t-25941.html

Indeed, before I came to that thread in the Archive, I also came across references to abuse on separate occasions of (Rangers) Flo, Lovenkrands and Arvadladze, the latter causing Fran Rooney to state:
"But I have also received letters from people in the North of Ireland [sic] who are Protestants who were personally abused for asking people to stop booing. We've got a situation that is racist but also bigoted and sectarian"
(I believe there was also a complaint ot UEFA about somesuch?)

Now before this thread degenerates even further into a pointless "you're worse than us" slanging match, I make these points not in order to tarnish the reputation of the vast majority of decent ROI fans, or to denigrate the efforts of the FAI to stamp it out.

Rather, I was attempting to make the point that every team has its minority of meatheads and hangers-on, but just as they need not deter anyone of any background from safely attending ROI games, then neither need our particular problems further North deter anyone from NI from following OWC, home or away. Which is a long away away from the rubbish which is being posted on this forum by certain individuals. :rolleyes:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

lock it up lads

---

Agreed , Every time this issue comes up , The usual suspects on both sides come out and the same points get repeated over and over again.