Ireland 0-0 Germany- Post game thread

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Originally Posted by lionelhutz

He's been playing shockingly for ireland for the past 10 to 15 games and there hasn't even been a consideration to drop him. If any other striker went through the form he has, there's no doubt he'd be dropped and rightly so.

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I agree. I just don't understand people getting annoyed at Keane. He doesn't choose to play badly.

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I agree. I just don't understand people getting annoyed at Keane. He doesn't choose to play badly.

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someone just pointed out to me, he doesnt do it on purpose, he just isn't good enough, simple as that.

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Originally Posted by mackannovic

Thats where Stan has to come in and stop him doing this. Keane is a stupid footballer who needs clear instruction, otherwise you get what Ireland have had for the past 4 years, a headless chicken playing all over the place doing nothing effective.

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So who else got a scoring opportunity for Ireland? Doyle? A "headless chicken" doesn't get in to the right spot or make the right run to be in a position to score a goal. Keane was the only one on Saturday who looked like scoring (apart from the Shane Long effort). He missed his two opportunities which strikers frquently do but at least he was in the right spot. He turns out for his country evey time. Never has feigned an injury and works hard whenever he puts on the green jersey. "A stupid footballer" who is our leading scorer.

Some people make me laugh they are so myopic.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/socc...s-1166786.html

Sums it up really.

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Originally Posted by paul_oshea

someone just pointed out to me, he doesnt do it on purpose, he just isn't good enough, simple as that.

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I think his form when playing for Spurs shows he IS good enough

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Originally Posted by eirebhoy

Do you think Keane should drop out of the team himself? What are you annoyed at him for? He didn't purposely miss.

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This is possibly the worst case for Robbie Keane I have ever heard. True, he didn't purposely miss but in the same way Gary Doherty isn't purposely a insult to the term "Professional".

Apparently McGeady had a great 10 minutes (this is very debatable I'd say he was decent but hardly brilliant) so Staunton was a fool not to have started him. Some of the reactionist rubbish spouted on here makes me laugh.

Yes McGeady was ok for 10 minutes in a meaningless match which in fairness before a ball had been kicked we had by any realistic assessment already failed to qualify. Let's all just conveniently forget he was absolutely dire in all 4, yes 4 of his previous starts in the competitive games in this group. He even managed to make JOS look good in the last 2 games. Rubbish player. Never going to be near consistently good enough for International football.

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Originally Posted by lionelhutz

He's been playing shockingly for ireland for the past 10 to 15 games and there hasn't even been a consideration to drop him.

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Funny, I remember him scoring twice in Denmark.

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Originally Posted by lionelhutz

If any other striker went through the form he has, there's no doubt he'd be dropped and rightly so.

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Every other striker we have is going through the same form as Robbie. Doyle has scored as many in the last year as Robbie, and noone is calling for him to be dropped?
I didn't think taking off Doyle on saturday was the right decision, but Long did more in the 20 minutes he was on, than Doyle did for the rest of the game.

Independent's review of the game and match ratings: http://www.independent.ie/sport/socc...s-1166786.html

Think the ratings are a little harsh, especially Dunnes:

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Richard Dunne: An imposing presence against an admittedly diffident offensive threat, was always on hand to disrupt nascent German attacks before they seriously threatened his goal. Loses kudos for dumb booking and consequent ban. 6

Man Of The Match
Andy Reid deserved his award although for me Finnan, Dunne and O'Brien were immense with Kelly, Carsley and Kilbane not far behind.

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I forgot to buy one of those Ireland - Germany scarves. Does anyone know where I could still get one? Thanks!

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Originally Posted by paul_oshea

someone just pointed out to me, he doesnt do it on purpose, he just isn't good enough, simple as that.

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If Keane isnt good enough for us I dont know who is

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Originally Posted by mackannovic

This is possibly the worst case for Robbie Keane I have ever heard. True, he didn't purposely miss but in the same way Gary Doherty isn't purposely a insult to the term "Professional".

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The only thing I've been arguing in this thread is about the abuse Robbie Keane gets. Abuse players for being lazy, abuse players for not following instructions, don't abuse players for not being good enough. It's the one thing I can't stand at football games. Shouting at players for misplacing a pass or making a mistake.

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Originally Posted by eirebhoy

McGeady would have most likely been rubbish if he started. Dropping him to the bench was the best thing to do. It released the pressure. I know the mind of a confidence player inside out. ;) He knows a lot of the fans think he's rubbish. When the manager still picks you when you don't deserve to be picked it does no good.

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Maybe this is what is happening to robbie keane at the moment

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Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

Funny, I remember him scoring twice in Denmark.

Every other striker we have is going through the same form as Robbie. Doyle has scored as many in the last year as Robbie, and noone is calling for him to be dropped?
I didn't think taking off Doyle on saturday was the right decision, but Long did more in the 20 minutes he was on, than Doyle did for the rest of the game.

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Are you seriously putting 2 goals in a glorified training session as a case for the defence of keanes form?? Are you actually for real?

Doyle scored 2 vital goals - at the time - in qualifying games and contributes so much more to the team than keane - he holds the ball up excellently, wins the ball in the air, etc.

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Originally Posted by OwlsFan

So who else got a scoring opportunity for Ireland? Doyle? A "headless chicken" doesn't get in to the right spot or make the right run to be in a position to score a goal. Keane was the only one on Saturday who looked like scoring (apart from the Shane Long effort). He missed his two opportunities which strikers frquently do but at least he was in the right spot.

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He had two chances on Saturday over the course of the game. The first his first-touch let him down and he brought the ball too wide, and the second he made a complete mess of. Whats the use in getting into these positions if you aren't gonna score?? Whens the last competitive goal he scored against significant opposition?? His record post 2002 is pretty poor for Ireland. He's constantly coming far too deep to recieve the ball, at one point during the game teh other night he was right back on the edge of our own box. While it may look like hard work he then leaves Kevin Doyle isolated up front. I don't want to get into tactics but in my opinion he does a lot of running but with very little end product.

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Originally Posted by OwlsFan

He turns out for his country evey time. Never has feigned an injury and works hard whenever he puts on the green jersey. "A stupid footballer" who is our leading scorer.

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1. Because he's never dropped no matter how poor he plays.
2. What has feigning an injury got to do with Robbie Keane not playing well for Ireland.
3. I can't stand this cop-out of players working hard. That should be a given, you're praising him for something thats expected.
4. Yes, a stupid footballer who continues to do make stupid decisions on the pitch.
5. Its some international scoring record when David Healy a championship level player has scored more goals than you.

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Originally Posted by eirebhoy

The only thing I've been arguing in this thread is about the abuse Robbie Keane gets. Abuse players for being lazy, abuse players for not following instructions, don't abuse players for not being good enough. It's the one thing I can't stand at football games. Shouting at players for misplacing a pass or making a mistake.

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The most annoying thing about Keane is that people are aware of what he's capable of but he just hasn't performed. Perhaps because at Spurs he knows that he has to perform or he doesn't play, he doesn't have that pressure playing for Ireland because the previous three managers haven't had the balls to make the decision. It looks as though he approaches internationals without the conviction he has at Spurs.

Stan getting booed at half time...

Haven't heard anyone booed as bad since Chris Doran at Lansdowne a couple of years ago. heh heh..

Sad state of afairs I know, but fans have no medium now to the FAI and the team so this is their only vent!

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Originally Posted by lionelhutz

Are you seriously putting 2 goals in a glorified training session as a case for the defence of keanes form?? Are you actually for real?

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I'm saying his form isn't as bad as you're making it out to be. to say he hasn't played well in over 15 games is a massive sweeping statement, considering he's scored 6 goals in those game

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Originally Posted by mattie

I have spent a long time looking at threads on this site and wondering whether i should post and tonight spurred me into posting.

First of all I would like to acknowledge a player who is constantly slated on this forum. Robbie Keane was brilliant tonight. He missed a few chances, but any player who has played up front at any level will recognise that the work he did tonight was unbelievable.

A lot of people have made reference to the fact that he seems to play better for Tottenham than he does for Ireland but I believe that if you look at the guy on the park he puts in as much effort than I've ever seen anyone put in for Ireland.

Another man whot is regualarly made fun of is Steve Staunton!

I'm sick of looking at the telly/radio/forums and regularly hearing so-called experts/fans dismiss his contribution to our national team.

When Brian Kerr took charge of Ireland I was delighted. I thought, "Here is a guy who understands our game, who has grown up in Ireland with the league as it is here, and who knows how it is to be a supporter of Irish football."

I feel Staunton has learned from the mistakes of Kerr. He has brought players into the team who would never have got a look in under any other manager. These players have a loyalty to the manager who gave them their first cap. Look a Keogh tonight. He didn't use the ball well at all times but when we were with or without the ball, he showed that he had a desire to play well for team and manager.. for country.

I also want to praise the contribution O' Brien made tonight. Coming into the side and distributing the ball excellently as well as playing well positionally (and this is not an easy thing to do) was a welcome sight for me. This man really stepped up to the plate.

The performance of Andy Reid will be talked about by one and all. This fella should start every international for us.

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here here absolutely spot on,
the abuse robbie gets is just pure irish he's our best striker fact and has been for years, sure he missed one or two chances tonight but i couldnt see anyone else getting into decent scoring positions.

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Originally Posted by youngirish

Apparently McGeady had a great 10 minutes (this is very debatable I'd say he was decent but hardly brilliant) so Staunton was a fool not to have started him. Some of the reactionist rubbish spouted on here makes me laugh.

Yes McGeady was ok for 10 minutes in a meaningless match which in fairness before a ball had been kicked we had by any realistic assessment already failed to qualify. Let's all just conveniently forget he was absolutely dire in all 4, yes 4 of his previous starts in the competitive games in this group. He even managed to make JOS look good in the last 2 games. Rubbish player. Never going to be near consistently good enough for International football.

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a lot of people said the same of duffer when mick first threw him in,
and the two players are so similar in style, another 2 years and he could be a class act, just nothing's really working for him at the moment,
I wouldnt hang him just yet

The article in the indo hit the nail on the head. THe most balanced piece I have seen on Robbie Keane anywhere. Very good article.

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Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

I'm saying his form isn't as bad as you're making it out to be. to say he hasn't played well in over 15 games is a massive sweeping statement, considering he's scored 6 goals in those game

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Since the world cup 2002, israel at home - for the half hour he was on - was the only competitive game i've seen him play anywhere near potential. Other than that game, he's been sh**e

And don't give me his goals against san marino and in friendlies as a case for defense. They're simply meaningless goals

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Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

I'm saying his form isn't as bad as you're making it out to be. to say he hasn't played well in over 15 games is a massive sweeping statement, considering he's scored 6 goals in those game

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3 goals in one game against San Marino thats all he's scored during this qualifying campaign

Robbie keane is a disgrace for Ireland the last few year, to give him the captaincy was a foolish move by hte Ginger gimp. After that miss against Germany on Sat night he should be dropped but he will not be by the Ginger gimp. To start him against Cyprus would be telling all the team it ok to miss an easy chance like that against Germany in a meaningful qualifier.
3 goals against San Marino is all he has scored versus how many for Spurs,

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Originally Posted by conlonn

Robbie keane is a disgrace for Ireland the last few year, to give him the captaincy was a foolish move by hte Ginger gimp. After that miss against Germany on Sat night he should be dropped but he will not be by the Ginger gimp. To start him against Cyprus would be telling all the team it ok to miss an easy chance like that against Germany in a meaningful qualifier.
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No matter who he scored them against, he is still top joint scored this campaign. If it was so easy to score against San Marino, then why didn't anyone else score 3 against them?

A "disgrace". How can you describe someone as a disgrace who works his socks of for his country, makes the runs and 90% of the time doesn't get the pass because of our poor midfield and does his best. Sure he missed the chances but I repeat at least he got in to the right position to score unlike his striking partner who seems to be beyond reproach.

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Originally Posted by conlonn

3 goals against San Marino is all he has scored versus how many for Spurs,

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I suspect the Spurs midfield is better than ours. A striker needs creative midfielders and now Reid is back, I am expecting more goals from Robbie but of course if he scores against Cyprus, they won't be acknowledged by his detractors :rolleyes:.

I said it before, the Keane Doyle partnership upfront is a complete misnomer. What Ireland badly need is a targetman. A big lad to cause havoc in the air up front. The majority of our players are tactically inept. Watching our players attempt to trap a ball and pass it is simply depressing and frustrating. Reid aside, our midfield is full of hoofers and cloggers, our defence is not much better.

We've tried our hand at playing football and failed. We simply can't do it. Bring back Route One.

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Originally Posted by OwlsFan

No matter who he scored them against, he is still top joint scored this campaign.

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As far as I know, Stephen Ireland is top scorer on his own with four. Keane and Doyle have three each.

lads that match on saturday was crap. good atmosphere, but we werent any good, germany didnt care, it was their C team, they were happy to come and go i.e. turning up was all they were interested in doing. Drawing against germany 0 - 0 at home and only producing 2 clear chances is not a great display or a moral victory. Had this been a must-win game for Germany they would have now, had it been we cannot lose game for us, we would have lost. Enough reading crap into these meaningless matches. Until we start winning let the analysis start. We have been here for the last 6 years and it does nothing, just frustrates me more and more. Rant over.

Can someone post that andy reid stuff I cant find it!

That indo article,
Making the case for Liam Miller to play at RM against Germany
'On Saturday, the decision to include Andy Keogh in the starting 11 on the right side of midfield was a startling one. The Wolves striker is a talented player and does not deserve such ridicule and humiliation.

Admirably, while thrust into a role that only his international manager seems to genuinely rate him in, Keogh never shirked his responsibilities and continued to look for the ball despite the fact that he rarely looked comfortable on it and was struggling to expose the supposed weakness of Marcell Jansen.'

So we get some sanctamonious crap about Stan setting up Keogh for ridicule and embarrassment and that it was Keogh's own strenghts that saved him.
How about the simple explanation, the Manager had faith in Keogh's ability and we will be a better team for the experience and Keogh will be a better player for the experience.
Jansen needed plenty of help to curtail Keogh. He would have swallowed Miller alone.

Then the journo goes on to write
"In fairness to Staunton, his faith in O'Brien's ability to fill in at centre half was justified, although it helped that he had the inspired Richard Dunne alongside him"
Well surely Stan also knew beforehand that O'Brien would have Dunne beside him and we have had other centre half partners for Dunne who were not exempt from making crucial errors because of that privilege.

The Journo then says the "worst was saved for last" when Shay was told to get back in goal.
Stan was perfectly right in telling Given to get back in goal at the end.

If the journo has any idea on how Robbie can be less wastefull I would like to know them.

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Then the journo goes on to write
"In fairness to Staunton, his faith in O'Brien's ability to fill in at centre half was justified, although it helped that he had the inspired Richard Dunne alongside him"
Well surely Stan also knew beforehand that O'Brien would have Dunne beside him and we have had other centre half partners for Dunne who were not exempt from making crucial errors because of that privilege.

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But in fairness he only had the drop of a coin - which he probably did - to decide, it was a forced "decision" to include obrien at centre half. I basically think he thought about who is the naturally more gifted player and went with him.

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Originally Posted by cfdh_edmundo

Robbie Keane can only play well with a big striker upfront next to him... either Berbartov or Quinn, he needs the flick-ons as service. If he doesnt have he tends to drop back to try and pick up the ball.

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That not his god damn job. Im sick of people using the excuse that he is always dropping deep to pick up the ball. The guy is a striker and should be told beforehand by the manager to stay in his position. Its not his job to track down the ball and be the creator of everything. Too many times when we break forward Keane is nowhere to be seen up forward. I pity Doyle because Keabne must be a very difficult player to play with, you should always know where your partner is. Nobody can questions the guys commitment but his attitude stinks and taking him off on Saturday and making him give the captaincy to someone more deserving might just dent this attitude of his

Yeah I am sure Berbatov and Niall Quinn really hated playing beside Robbie Keane.

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Originally Posted by OwlsFan

I suspect the Spurs midfield is better than ours. A striker needs creative midfielders and now Reid is back, I am expecting more goals from Robbie but of course if he scores against Cyprus, they won't be acknowledged by his detractors :rolleyes:.

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David Healy and James McFadden hardly have world class midfielders behind them yet they're scoring against the likes of Spain, Sweden, France and Ukraine.

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Originally Posted by OwlsFan

No matter who he scored them against, he is still top joint scored this campaign.

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What an idiotic comment. Of course it matters who he scores against, what difference does it make when he scores against san marino when we're 4-0 up?? Compare this to scoring the winner against the likes of Slovakia and gaining 3 points

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Originally Posted by OwlsFan

No matter who he scored them against, he is still top joint scored this campaign. If it was so easy to score against San Marino, then why didn't anyone else score 3 against them?

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So would you say his Hat-Trick versus San Marino holds as much merit as that of David Healys versus Spain???

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Originally Posted by NeilMcD

Yeah I am sure Berbatov and Niall Quinn really hated playing beside Robbie Keane.

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I really dont give a damn if Berbatov likes playing with him. And Quinn has been retired 5 years so i dont understand why you are bringing him up. Simply put to make the whinger a captain was a slap in the face to senior players like Dunne, Given and Finnan. The guys attitude is everything that is wrong with football. He is continously flapping his arms about as if he were directing planes, he is always in the refs face, he cant take an easy chance(For some reason he doesnt like getting the easy goals, who in their right mind would have tried to lob Lehmann when he was retreating), he is always out of position and he has not put in a performance for us in years. Im ****ed off of people using meaningless friendlies and matches against cndlestick makers to merit Keane's inclusion in the team. Yes he has been excellent for Spurs the past 3 years, but that form is not showing for Ireland. Giving him the captaincy has only increased his inflated ego and this was the last thing the guy needed. All he needs do is look at Doyle to find out how to conduct himself on a football pitch

I replied in relation to your comment that he is a nightmare to play with. I dont think he should be captain but thats not what I said. You said he would be a nightmare to play with and I would say most of the guys that played with him would say its a joy to play with him.

Doyle was crap the other night by the way but because he is an honest lad from Wexford he can do no wrong with some people. I like Doyle too but there is an agenda out there in relation to Keane and as I said before just read the article in the Indo today for a balanced and fair view on Keane for Ireland.

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Originally Posted by geysir

That indo article,


The Journo then says the "worst was saved for last" when Shay was told to get back in goal.
Stan was perfectly right in telling Given to get back in goal at the end.
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Actually the indo said that given was telling kelly to push on for the corner in the last min and staunton told kelly to stay back. Which, if true, is a disgrace. Happy with a point that knocks us out of the euros for definite but keeps our 'magnificent' home record intact

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Originally Posted by NeilMcD

I replied in relation to your comment that he is a nightmare to play with. I dont think he should be captain but thats not what I said. You said he would be a nightmare to play with and I would say most of the guys that played with him would say its a joy to play with him.

Doyle was crap the other night by the way but because he is an honest lad from Wexford he can do no wrong with some people. I like Doyle too but there is an agenda out there in relation to Keane and as I said before just read the article in the Indo today for a balanced and fair view on Keane for Ireland.

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Doyle has the right attitude and always always sticks to his job. When given a chance he generally takes it and never showboats unlike our Robbie. The reason i think Keane would be difficult to play with is because you never know where the guy is, he always feels he has to do the midfielders job as well. I was probably being harsh using the word nightmare but i do think he would be a hard player to play alongside. I dont need to read the Indo to get my opinions on Keane, i can make up my own mind. I would love to see the guy fufil his potential for ireland against the big teams but im beginning to wonder if it will happen. My big problem with the guy is his attitude

Ha ha, a closed mine is one that does not work in my view. I am not saying you have to get your opinions from the Indo but in can offer a view that you may have not though of. Other peoples opinions are always good to read hence why people come on a forum like this. If we all agreed or wanted to hang or debate with peopel we agreed with, it would be a boring world.

I dont think Keane has a bad attitude problem for Ireland. I think his efforts are misguided for Ireland and the system of play we are playing is not bringing out the best in him, and its not bringing out the best in a lot of our players either.

If we had a good manager who was strong with Keane, he would be telling him where to play and what runs to be making etc and we would have a clear pattern and system of play. Stans approach is to tell the players do what they do for their club. Depite the Fact Doyle is not Berbatov and Keane is not Leroy Lita or Dave Kitson.