Contracts in football mean nothing these days.
Nice bit if business for the lad because he's got himself a contract that will see him paid well to warm the bench.
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Contracts in football mean nothing these days.
Nice bit if business for the lad because he's got himself a contract that will see him paid well to warm the bench.
I really do worry he's going to turn into the next Phil Neville, esp now the last Phil Neville has left the club :(
so is he the new Phil Neville then ? i dont know where he is giong to fit in with hienze there. I dont see it as a great contract for Josh,
Some players seem to lack ambition and happy just to be at a "big" club.Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsujin1979
Man Yoo has a history of such players, Solsjaker, Butt, P. Neville etc.
John O'Shea seems to fit the bill in that respect.
How is winning trophies consistantly and playing at a top club lacking in ambtition. Nowadays with squad players the idea of a first 11 when everybody is fit is gone. What is Chelsea's First 11 or Arsenals. There is normally always about 3 players in a squad injured. In addition to that you have form, tactics etc, so the days of a pick yoru best 11 players is totally gone. Should Crespo be worried because Drogba played on Sunday and scored twice. He will get his chance if you are at a top club there is always competition for places. It is only further down the league and at smaller clubs were someone is certain of their place. and in my view if O Shea did that , it woudl lack ambition.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peadar
37 appearance, does not sound like warming the bench at all, but sure we wont let facts get in the way.
You're talking about the past, I'm talking about the future.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeilMcD
Have a seat next to him on the bench and chill out a bit! :rolleyes:
I am grand and chilled today as I have a nice bottle of water with me with lots of ice here in work. Well the future is only opinino but O shea seems to think he will get between 37 and 50 appearance during his contract and Ferguson does too. But the past can be a good guide to the future and last season O Shea had 37 appearacne when Heinze was there so there is no reason to think he will have less appearances this season as Kleberson, Djemba Djemba and Phil Neville have all left and O Shea was competing for places in midfield with them. O Shea will not get 37 appearances at left back for Man Utd but I think he will get 37 appearances in various positions.
O'Shea is a good player and ManU would not allow him to walk away on a Bosman at the end of the season, and he is a valuable player in his own right. Makes sense for United all round.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peadar
Actually, I've seen the future, :eek: O'Shea played 35 games for Man Yoo in 2005/6 (including 8 as a sub), but only 22 the following season (partly due to his poor performance in the World Cup in Germany)!! ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Peadar
For me, that's the problem. I'd love to see the guy specialise.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeilMcD
I said this recently on another thread, but it's appropriate here too: I disagree with the assertion that he's a poor passer. I just think that he's a poor passer from left-back, as he's a right footer. I think he could do a Lawrenson type role in midfield for us.
Not likely to get that chance at club level though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
Look at all the second rate midfield players they bought over the past few season and then they stick Alan Smith in there.
Surely if they rated O'Shea he'd have been coached into that role?
On another note, I fear for Miller at Glazer Bros. :(
fergie is only going to be at united for another season or two ,, what going to happen to josh and mr invisble then ? i cant see the new manager being so positive about such weak performances
I thought this thread was about him becoming a pundit :D
Can't be worse than Shearer anyway.
Hard to know what to make of O'Shea, but this is a very big year for him
Heard two lads having a very deep and meaningful at half time at the game last night about the career to date of John O'Shea. One thought that it was a roaring success, premiership and fa cup medals, near regular in the United side and a cert for Irish games.
The other wasn't convinced and doesn't rate him a success at all, thinking he's only in the Unted side to boost his value before he gets sold on, and is only in the Irish team because he's playing regularly for a massive club side.
I'm kind of caught in the middle of this...seeing both sides. What does everyone else think?? Maybe a poll, success or failure, or undecided?? :ball:
Failure as a left back ... .moderate success when in centre midfield ....
now liam miller on the other hand total failure ...
Career to date? Undecided, but certainly closer to success than failure.
Last night in central midfield: success.
Total failure, he's shyte!!! I really can't understand what he's doing in the Irish team, never mind the premier league!!!
To me, he's got great skill and vision and can play the game, but for a 6ft 2" strong lad, he gets muscled out of it very easily at times which is why he'll never make it as a centre-half. I think he's a decent full back though.
He suffers for his flexibility because he's never picked in the same bloody position three weeks in a row,
Failure.
Makes all the initial hope and promise invested in him now seem naive (same for Miller).
I firmly believe he's getting in the squad due to "lovely lad syndrome" (a problem McCarthy has been known to suffer from).
Why are the likes of Miller, O'Shea, and Quinn getting into the squad every single time when they have done nothing to warrant it, when others (Dunne, McGeady, S. Reid) are left "dumbfounded" by going months at a time without a call up, wondering if they pi$$ed Kerr off somehow -??
"Ah, he's a lovely lad. Gets on with everyone, tries hard, always eager to be a part of it." It's not enough. We have the players, and we're not getting the most out of them.
We need someone who is going to be clinical and detached, a la Mourinho. Hard but fair.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not calling for Kerr's head. I don't think there's any point in replacing him unless we have someone better who's ready, willing, and able to step in. I have been a fan of Kerr since he was given the job, but I've found that every game since (and including) the match in Paris has just been frustrating.
Game after game, I'm not enjoying these matches, I'm just getting frustrated watching it. Sure, over time, that feeling gets clouded by the memory of a result (wins over the likes of Faroes and China, draws away to Swiss and Israel when we actually played far, far below par), but it's just...I don't know. I've never for a second doubted that we're going to the World Cup, and I'm glad that the overall reaction on here has been surprisingly accomodating for last night (that's somewhat reassuring), but I'm losing that optimisim fast.
Posted about O'Shea on another thread but just saw this. Agree totally on the Miller score with regards to favouritism but i'm beginning to wonder if i watched a different game last night with O'Shea. I thought he was one of our best players in both positions he occupied.
In O'Sheas case I'd say his versatility actually helps him to make squads, given the variety of positions he can cover. Thats the same versatility that also hinders him though as he has no definitive 'position'.Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyP
Failure as a left back, was worse in midfield last night, hadn't a clue what was going on.
Will get his game because Kerr won't consider any other options.
Im not sure about the Mourniho comment there. I think a lot of our players are confidence players and need lots of time and engergy, like clinton has been getting from kerr. I dont know if Mourniho does this kind of thing (if he does all fair & good) but kerr has taken the right approach with all the players.
As for Josh, I think he defintely has a lot of abilty, its just that mentally he doesnt seem very strong to date. I think he will come right in the end though, he will break through to the first team in Man U and he will be a solid player for us in midfield for ireland.
Miller on the other hand looks like he is going backwards
Only a failure if you're expecting him to live up to all the hype written about him in 2002/03.
If you take him for what he's worth, he's a good player well worth his place in the Ireland squad.
He is not a failure he just isn't as good as some media quaters think he is ! Some players just don't cope well with International football and he seems to be one of them :(
Its too early to say. He is still young and has a lot to learn , but you dont play central midfield for United if you are a bad player. I think he is far better in midfield than defence and a season alongside keane and co playing regular football and starting a few champions league outings could be the making of him.
Dont forget that Phil Neville was the one that Fergie let go and JOS is now playing that position so he cant be that bad !
I thought he had a good game last night and was very comfortable on the ball (which is his failing ironically at left back because of his reluctance to 'hoof it').
Didn't see last night match but my opinion is - he's not getting any worse :D
dont think that would be possible ...Quote:
Originally Posted by tricky_colour
Couldn't agree more with what you say in the last paragraph. I tend to take a pessimistic approach to Irish games as some manner of a buffer against the abject disappointment when you've expected a win - it doesn't really work though. Israel away and more particularly at home were gut-wrenchingly painful. Like you say, the manner of performance and Kerr's seeming nonchalance about what are substandard performances has me very worried - to an exponential degree now that a stronger French side are coming in 3 weeks. I know it doesn't help for an international manager to criticise his players to the press, but Kerr appears nothing but cheerful and unworried about our repeated failures to finish off weaker opposition and now, in the Italy game, to mix it with bigger teams. Case in point is his refusal to dismiss out of hand the suggestion that he might use the 4-3-3/4-5-1 system of last night against the French. Did he not see our central defence getting cut open at will every time the Italians came at us in the first half? Did he not see the amount of space allowed to Italian danger players in midfield, the Irish markers either unsighted or backing off? I tread to think what Zidane, Vieira and Henry will do if we allow them anything like the mockery that was our porous performance in the key areas last night. I remain to be convinced about our seeming ability to produce a world-beater performance.Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyP
You can't call him a failure when he is playing for Man U and has won trophies, plus being a full international. However, he is hugely over-rated and I can't understand how he is still at Utd, I guess it's a perfect example of how Fergie has lost it as a manager. Against Italy I thought he was average. He's a disaster at left-back. In midfield he did ok, but if he's serious about playing there he needs to start doing so for his club. One of the most brainless players when it comes to keeping possession and passing the ball, I'd rather see him on the bench to be honest. However, Kilbane was worse. As for Liam Miller..........why in gods name is he in the squads? Waste of space :rolleyes:
The thing is he's not that young anymore, he was 24 in April. Roy Keane was 22 about to turn 23 when he was our player of the tournament at the 94 World Cup, Robbie Keane broke our nations goal scoring record at 24. Using the age excuse for O'Shea and also Miller just doesn't cut it anymore, Miller is 24 also now. What we need is a manager like Cloughie who's not afraid to give players a good kick up the arse, which is what both of them need!Quote:
Originally Posted by wallis
What player in their right mind would take that from an international team manager?Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Vito
Duff Robbie Josh and Miller are all the same age. The first two have done alright, the last two have been far below expection. Miller has some serious work to do if he wants to rescue his career. He needs to drop to a smaller club and get first team football.
As for Josh, I blame Mc Carthy for wrecking his career. He missed out on a WC while Robbie and Duff played. I cant belive Mc Carthy never brought him, for that alone I was glad Mc Carthy got the sack.
As for the 4-3-3 formation Im delighted that Kerr tried it the other night, 4-4-2 is dead, its too static and if you dont have all your strikers your screwed. We a team with lots of wingers and usually a strong midfield. 4-3-3 is well suited to us, its just that the players have to get used to it.
Full marks to Kerr IMO. We should have won against Israel but I still think we will beat the French.
I cant see him going with anything but a 4-4-2 against the french. The 4-3-3 was probably a ruse to baffle their spies, as Stapleton so eloquently put it on tv later..Quote:
Originally Posted by thejollyrodger
I agree. 4-4-2 is our strongest formation and its what kerr will probably play. At least we will have a bit of a surprise up our sleve when we face the french.
Its gonig to take a right few more goes at in in friendlies for ireland to master 4-3-3. Other formations do have their advantages though and 4-3-3 is really good if you have lots of possession and want to put teams away (AFAIK)
Is this a serious comment? O'Shea was nowhere near the squad for Japan. Unless I am mistaken at the time the WC squad was picked he had only played 6 minutes at international level (against Croatia, when he gave away a penalty!). He had only played a handful of games for United at that stage.Quote:
Originally Posted by thejollyrodger
How did McCarthy ruin his career? When Mick was in charge O'Shea club career was only starting.
I thought O'Shea played allright when he moved to the middle the other night. He's an O.K left full, i think he gets forward and support the wingers well. I'll reserve judgement on his career just yet.
But he was nowhere near the World Cup squad for '02..... What are we, Northern Ireland?? Capping every Man Utd reserve player.... He didn't deserve to even be considered for the squad despite with "His Corkness" said.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Superhoops
Ask Roy, O Shea should have been brought , he was in top form back then and would have solved our left back nightmare.
Playing at the world cup for players really makes them a lot better than their colleagues who havent. Their concentration has to be better, the play has to be better, everything. it improves them no end.
Look at duff who was captipulated to chelsea after the wc. josh has gone from mediocre to mediocre
Ask who?Quote:
Originally Posted by thejollyrodger
On what basis do you claim that O'Shea was in 'top form'? In the whole of the 2001/2002 season leading up to the WC finals he played 9 league games and 3 CL games for MU. Hardly World Cup form!
There were plenty of opportunities for McCarthy to bring him into the team after we had qualified. We played four games in Dublin in 2002 before the WC against Russia, Denmark, USA and Nigeria and also Niall Quinn's testimonial at Sunderland.
Q. Why was he not selected for any of these games?
A. He was not good enough.
I would be interested to know who you think should have been dropped from the squad that went to Japan to make way for him?