ok so let me get this straight:Quote:
Originally Posted by papa-j
eL players are failures who have failed to make it and junior players are going to improve the standard of the national team!
open the doors and let this man loose!!!!
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ok so let me get this straight:Quote:
Originally Posted by papa-j
eL players are failures who have failed to make it and junior players are going to improve the standard of the national team!
open the doors and let this man loose!!!!
I'm not slagging people off for supporting British clubs, I'm slagging them for looking like village idiots and behaving like Westlife fans.
Ireland fans are under an illusion that they're the best in the world - where's the basis for that, and what makes them better than, say, Mexico fans, South Koreans or the Italians?
I'd reckon that English football fans are the best because they turn out in huge numbers week after week, supporting clubs as diverse as Manchester United and Halifax Town. Small clubs in England get incredible support considering the counter-attractions. Respect.
All many Ireland fans want is a good day out on the beer now and again. Big deal.
Everyone?Quote:
Originally Posted by galwayhoop
There is a difference between those who don't follow the el, and those who don't follow the el and also support a premiership side.
Apart from that, I agree with the post.
who said they were the best supporters in the world? Maybe 10 or 15 years ago when we just didnt have a rep for hooliganism but nobody has said it in a while.
There is no real culture in this country of going to anything on a regular basis.
And are you tryin to tell me that nobody goes on the beer at an EL game?
Dont know about that Bill, attendances for the LOI during the 60s were up to the 30 or 40 thousand for games.
okay osarusan what you pay supporting the J-League team of your choice:DQuote:
Originally Posted by osarusan
2,000 yen a ticket, about...........12 euros?Quote:
Originally Posted by galwayhoop
Maybe I should post it home!:D
But seriously I think that there is a false assumption that people who dont support the el are all wasting their money on the premiership.
I will admit there are a lot of people who do this, but I'm sure there are other reasons some people dont watch el.
i don't know - looking at our back 4 for tomorrow i'm sure there's a few eL players who may feel that with the lads coming in that they might of been given a shout - after all look at the progress eL teams are starting to make in europe. jusy because mcshane plays in england (never heard of him until very recently) is he better than the lads at derry or drogheda
I'm sorry I opened me big gob now! Anyway, here's to an Ireland win tomorrow. It would certainly make things very interesting.
Anyone watched Ingerland lately? Surely there's a nation doing their best to prove that having a league with the income of a medium size country has feck all to do with producing quality football.:eek: :)
And I strongly disagree with you. Not going over why again but just thought I'd mention itQuote:
Originally Posted by osarusan
This is kinda ignorant.... if you're so irish, why dont you just follow GAA and not watch any soccer!Quote:
Originally Posted by The Stars
Thats like that old joke..."not too communist to wear shoes I see..."
Maybe he does follow the GAA as well. Its only 2 games a year for Sligo people anyways...
That kind of sums it up alright Bill. What disappoints me is not so much that people don't support their local teams more (after all, it's such hard work isn't it ? Watching ManWho in the pub is so much easier, let's face it.) It's the contempt and sneering at our league by so many people that annoys me. Was it you who said earlier in the thread that you didn't support the league as you wanted a "better product" ? (Forgive me if I'm wrong, and I'm not saying you were sneering) surely the logical extension of that is to go and support Brazil, or France, or anyone of the many international teams who could currently offer you a much better product than the Ireland team ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Billsthoughts
(BTW - like the sig, a Billy Bragg fan. Respect! You can't be all bad:p )
No chance, and it doesn't have to be billions either, A small amount of money spent (in premiership terms) spent on renovating every ground in ireland would go a long way but while the FAi continue to put so much resources into the national team, it won't happen.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuff Paddy
I started going to watch the Irish team in 1970...have missed only a hanful of homes games since then and have attended loads of away games. I have followed Rovers for 40 years as well. The common thread between following the two is that when you have good times (my personal highlight was Roy Keanes one man destruction of the Dutch in 2001 and 3-0 victory over USSR 1974) enjoy them because there are plenty of awful time...(Cyprus away, McCarthy sending home Roy and of course the losing of Milltown).
So you can moan on about the ole bigade, sure they are plonkers but IMO they are harmless, they'll be gone soon enough if our current form continues. That's the nature of success, it always brings out the "hangers on" "event junkies" etc . Sure when Rovers regain their righful position and start winning things in Tallaght no doubt you won't be able to get a taxi when we play at home as all the drivers will be watching us !!
So my point is that it's time IMO that Eircom fans dropped this fixation they have about the ole crowd not being "proper" fans.Just because you support the local league doesn't make you any better or worse a fan than someone who chooses to support Man U, Celtic, Liverpool etc. All that shows is that there are a lot of people living here (including our poor Tshock) who exercise their democratic right to follow any dam team they want. I agree that their choice is not one I'd choose and supporting a British club team shows a certain desperate failure of identity for those concerned. That failure IMO can be put down to the fact that we as a nation despite our recently found wealth still suffer from a debilitating inferiority complex and to put it mildly a sheer lack of style,class and respect for ourselves. To put it as plainly as I can I believe are almost unique culture that allows the majority of fans to feel comfortable supporting British teams and allows them to slag off thier own local club teams is down to the fact that we as a nation have no idea of what a "social conscience is" and that is why our TShock can get away with taking "loans"/"gifts" , why developers have been able to get a stangelhold on land and screw people by making ordinary houses so expensive that 40 year mortgages are required.
We've lost all sense of community is this country and thus we have lost our perspective on decency and thus the ole brigade can't see the sheer stupidity/shallowness of supporting a team from England... no doubt tonight we'll see at Lansowne Road the first outing for a number of Sunderland shirts... so to all the Eircom supporters annoyed by this if you think that
Bertie was right not to resign then you are just as culpable as the olers as you are endorsing a society where nothing counts expect the next quick personal gratification and of course not geting caught...
I'll be there tonight, watching and waiting to see how the Celtic Gob****es respond.... I suspect it will be sickening.
fairly good post calico but as a GUFC season ticket holder, irish supporter who will be at landsdowne this evening (hoping for a good result BTW, and someone who was horrified at the reaction at the end of last swiss game) and a season ticket holder at celtic i take offense at the final sentence!
is it impossible to support all three, be involved in soccer at a local level and have a decent knowledege of the game and not be a gobsh1te?
or are we all resorting to painting each other with the one brush?
Good post lads, I think this tarnishing people is not helful. It is always easy to slag others off rather than do something positive. I rather concentrate on positives and entice people to games rather than slag people off. If people in pubs or work etc slag you off about the EL, just walk away and have nothing to do with them Thats what I do with stupid people and it usually works. Get rid of them from your life and I dont mean that in an AL Pacino way.
The term 'Celtic Gob***tes' was a play on the term 'Celtic Tiger' , nothing to do with Celtic FC...Quote:
Originally Posted by galwayhoop
I'm surprised that you were horrified at the reaction at the end of the last Swiss game... all I remember was the total silence and stange kind of bewilderment in the ground... or are you refering to the reaction that IMO McCarthy received at the end of his last game which was against the Swiss.
Re your owning up to being a Celtic season ticket holder... how long have we got...all I can say is that IMO I have heard all the reasons over the years by which Irish residents (I assume you are one) justify such support for British, English, scotish teams etc.... and when it comes to Celtic they always seem to express the added justification that they are an "Irish" team blah blah... IMO that doesn't stack up but if it makes people happy so be it... I guess it goes back to what i said earlier, many people here seem to suffer from some sort of inferiority complex etc... why don't people who want to support foreign teams just say that's what they want to do and stop the b###s##t justifications... as the bard said "..thou doth protest too much.."
Speaking of Leprechaun suited green wig wearing fans, I'll bet the likes of Brazillan fans ar embarrassed to high heaven when they see scantilly clad, big breasted, tanned beauties, attending their internationls. Its absolutely embarrasing to think they spend the majority of the 90 minutes jiggling their ample bristols to the beat of some other eejit's samba drum. No bloody self respect.
It's amazing that people are more upset about Steve Staunton than Bertie Ahern, but that's because Bertie is one of de peepul and isn't stoppin' us havin' deh craic, like.
I despise barstoolers, green wig wearers, and all of that lame, SKY Sports 'football is fun' nonsense. Some foot.ie PC police ain't gonna change my attitude.
Neil: I agree. After nearly 40 years supporting Ireland, I walked away and will have nothing to do with the Lansdowne muppets. They are welcome to their lame atmosphere, everyone-sit-down attitude, plastic hats, green wigs, the same couple of chants year after year, that awful 'Ole' nonsense and the rest of it.
I'm sorry I started this thread, there really was no point to it because people have entrenched views that won't change overnight; but that's life.
AS JP Sartre said: 'Hell is other people'.
Roadend: I think most males (even homosexuals, I'd imagine) would agree that buxom and under-dressed Brazilian women are rather more attractive than drunken Paddies in leprechaun suits or green wigs.
So abhorance of the casual fan should be weighted by the attractiveness of the fan. I see..........
i was in the south terrace last game and there were a fair few boos and whistles.... definately not as bad as mcCarthy's last stand but depressed me all the same.
regards celtic, yes technically i do support a foreign football team but i view it - as many others do - as a vehicle for the irish diaspora. i am an irish resident but recently returned after living in britain for a number of years. there are many books about celtic fc and it's affinity with the irish emigrant population in scotland ('celtic minded' to name one, which is a series of letters from supporters about what celtic means to them) and the fact is that not alone do people in ireland have that feeling of irishness for celtic but also the 2nd 3rd and 4th generation irish peoples of scotland also feel that the club is an irish club and feel that celtic is the vehicle for showing their irishness. (BTW celtic park is the only ground in mainland britain where the union jack is not flown as a tri-colour proudly fills that spot.) the point here is that the belief that celtic is an irish club in britain was not invented in this country it is infact the belief of the people of glasgow (and scotland) that it is an irish club.
Contary to popular opinion a large majority of Scots are anti-irish (and anti-catholic) and in particular in glasgow. when people in this country count the scots as percieved 'allies' or comrades they are usually wrong as most scots harbour anti-irish feelings. in fact nowadays irish people are made feel more welcome in england than in scotland - except in the strong irish ex-pat communities of which celtic fc is the main torch bearer.
rant over - but to answer your question / statement. in others views i may support a foreign club but to me (and the local people who support them) it is an irish club.
BTW i personally bear no grudge toward people who support EPL clubs or other clubs but i think that they should also suport their local eL club and should ever the twain meet then obviously their vocal support should be entirely for their local side. i know i'd be wearing maroon if we met celtic.
anyhow, this is an irish soccer forum (not celtic or eL) so i will leave it at that and you may agree or disagree with me but thats my opinion and you are entitled to yours.
regards celtic, yes technically i do support a foreign football team but i view it - as many others do - as a vehicle for the irish diaspora. i am an irish resident but recently returned after living in britain for a number of years. there are many books about celtic fc and it's affinity with the irish emigrant population in scotland ('celtic minded' to name one, which is a series of letters from supporters about what celtic means to them) and the fact is that not alone do people in ireland have that feeling of irishness for celtic but also the 2nd 3rd and 4th generation irish peoples of scotland also feel that the club is an irish club and feel that celtic is the vehicle for showing their irishness. (BTW celtic park is the only ground in mainland britain where the union jack is not flown as a tri-colour proudly fills that spot.) the point here is that the belief that celtic is an irish club in britain was not invented in this country it is infact the belief of the people of glasgow (and scotland) that it is an irish club.
Contary to popular opinion a large majority of Scots are anti-irish (and anti-catholic) and in particular in glasgow. when people in this country count the scots as percieved 'allies' or comrades they are usually wrong as most scots harbour anti-irish feelings. in fact nowadays irish people are made feel more welcome in england than in scotland - except in the strong irish ex-pat communities of which celtic fc is the main torch bearer.
rant over - but to answer your question / statement. in others views i may support a foreign club but to me (and the local people who support them) it is an irish club.
---------------------------------------------------------------
As I saidpeople living here more often than not justify supporting Celtic on the grounds that they are "an Irish club".... eh no they are not... they are a Scottish Club. I've no objection to people choosing to suport any club they wish... I do however have strong objections to people trying to sell me some crap that a Scottish club is in some way "Irish", it's not , never was and never will be. Guess we'll agree to disagree on that.
ps... when Dermot Desmond tries to get Celtic into the Eircom League instead of the Premiership in Englan... then I might re-consider !!
I think this thread is absolutely hilarious. The EL fans on here really do have some kind of superiority complex and they dont realise that the attitude thye have actually turns people away from the EL. I am a season ticket holder at Bray and have been for 5 years but I am also a Leeds United fan and go to Elland Road quite a bit as well. It annoys the hell out of me when EL fans look down on you for supporting an English or Scottish side. The fact that EL fans only support EL teams does not make them any better or more knowledgable about football than an Irish person who doesnt support an EL team.
I understand the points being made about money not coming into the EL because fans are staying away but to call people poor Irish fans because they choose to wear a wig and dont go to EL games is just totally ridiculous and a huge generalisation. Yes those fans exist and I know some of them that go to the pub dressed in their Irish gear but know nothing about football. This doesnt give anyone the right to broadly generalise fans that wear wigs because an extreme minority know nothing about football.
If im honest I would prefer to see a fan dressed in a wig and face painted at an Irish game than someone in a Bray jersey. It is an Irish match afterall.
Your missing the main points being made by EL fans
1 There is a gap growing between Irish football on the Island of Ireland
and the International team
2 Alot of people dont fell a connection with the national team anymore
3 Fans feel the International team is no longer reflective of the Irish people
4 The fact that people are getting in such a snot over the result against
Cyprus yet the biggest thing holding back the international team is
the neglect of the domestic game mainly the EL
well said kingp35. some people who support eL clubs (just eL clubs and no foreign club) begin to sound like the old timers at GAA games who give out about the supporters who go to championship games and 'where were ye when we played wexford in the national league in january'. is there not room to support both eL and EPL/SPL?
the only axe i personally have to grind is with the lads who have absolutely no interest in the league of ireland and complain venehemently about our national team's performances without realising that we must begin to rectify the game here which will in turn improve the national side (albeit it may take 10 - 15 years before any wholesale improvements) and our nations football in general. can we do this while still watching or attending the EPL/SPL teams? obviously. and if you still don't want to support the eL but follow the national team then fair enough. i won't look down my nose but there will be enough hurlers on the ditch who will!
the 'wigs' conversation is bordering on the ludicrous!
Answer me this than not that i give a sh1t?
Why do people only wear these ridiculous outfits at International matches?
deffo wasnt me as I deffo wouldnt even close to think that. I did say people in this country are too f*ckin lazy to go watch anything on a regular basis. and I did resent bein painted as some leprechaun suited moron cause I dont know much about the eircom league. but apart from that I agree totally with people pointing out the irony of not supporting the league and then bemoaning the lack of depth in our squad.Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyD
actually i caught the tail end of graham taylor on sky last night and he was saying that unless england do something drastic to nuture their own players the national side will suffer in 10 or 15 years from a lack of players of a high enough internation standard!
this is from a former international manager of a country who have one of the strongest leagues in europe...... if they think they are going to struggle how are we going to do if we don't start looking at our own league to get our ship in order! in short there is not enough players going to or regularly playing for top clubs from this country anymore to sustain us as a top 2 or 3 seed so we will have to try and get ourselves in a position where we can use home based players if required.
if we get the league running to a sufficent standard then players won't feel the need to go overseas to play professional football. and then the elite of our league can step up to a higher level overseas when they are already established in a professional national league
This argument ****es me off more than anything else on here.Quote:
Originally Posted by kingp35
1) SOME el fans despise the premiership. I think you'll find the vast, vast majority have an interest in it and couldn't care less if people supported someone else.
2) Nobody has claimed that people who don't go to games don't know football. What some claim is they're not true supporters. BY DEFINITION a football supporter goes to games.
3) If people think that the national team is the be all and end all of Irish football, they absolutely deserve to be mocked. The national team is a tiny bit of it, and if the rest of Irish football was fixed, the national team would pretty much look after itself, its the irony of people slamming the league tht gets people ranting here
4) Anybody who decides not to go to a game becomes some random bloke posts on the internet is a fool, and is looking for excuses not to go. There's no way that person would ever go to a game. NONE.
People are getting too bogged down in the wigs bit, they are a symptom of the type of people who don't deserve to go to games, they're not the cause of it. On a side issue, they look ****ing stupid and I think you'll find most people are against them for this reason alone.
I ****ing hate people who read one/two posts and think that this represents the views of large groups of people. Remember that most people here post on their behlaf and no one elses. We might agree on some aspects but never, ever think that all eL fans think the same. Thats the absolute beauty of being a true football fan, you have opinions on everything
Well, I have been going to Old Trafford since 1974. I also go to Rome and Stockholm on a regular basis to see football, and have neglected Cardiff City in recent times, while also having a soft spot for St Johnstone in Scotland, whom I've seen a few times.
I love football, and can't understand why people don't support their local clubs. Unless you change allegiances every season, there'll always be 'better' football somewhere other than who you supprt, so that logic doesn't wash. Some people just couldn't be arsed supporting Irish football, that's all.
That's got nothing to do with with clueless Westlife fans wearing Leprechaun suits and green wigs at Lansdowne Road.
Having said that, I've just come across a ticket for tonight and I think I'll go. Unlike the muppets I won't leave before the end and won't be wearing a wig, even though I could do with one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodge
By whose definition?
I have no problem calling somebody a supporter even if they dont follow the el.
As far as I am concerned, passion for the national team, or knowledge about the game, is not determined by attendance at the el.
How can you support a team if you don't go to games? And again, I never mentioned el fans or anybody's knowledge of the gameQuote:
Originally Posted by osarusan
This is yet again another stupid statement. By your definition Leeds united can only have 41,000 supporters in the entire world because thats what the ground holds. Same goes for Bray, Derry or whatever, they can only have the amount of supporters that their ground holds.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodge
Are you telling me out of the entire population of Ireland we can only have 35,000 supporters of the national team?
No, national teams don't count. If you just go to national teams go, you're not a supporter. I'm not going over this again, search for my previous posts on this topic. If you don't go to Leeds games, you're not a supporter. Those leeds fans who go to every game are better fans than those who don't.Quote:
Originally Posted by kingp35
And it's not like Leeds sell out their ground every week either.
I agree with you there but you cant say somebody isnt a supporter if they dont go to games. What about the fans on this forum that are living in foreign countries now? They would still consider themselves supporters.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodge
True but it also doesnt mean that the people that dont go arent supporters, its just the ones that do go would be the hardcore element.Quote:
Originally Posted by Soper