Biased Dublin Refs

Look at it this way then if an ex pro ref says it wasnt a red and the SHELS coach said it wasnt a red, i wud tend to agree more with them because they prob know the game a lot more than us, I am not disputing it was a foul or max yellow card but the fact that there was two covering defenders means that there was cover there. Wot if it had been a defender who committed the foul but there was cover, wud u say it was a red? It happened in the prem a few years ago when the keeper came out but there was cover so the ref booked him, which was the right decision.

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Originally Posted by City till I Die

Look at it this way then if an ex pro ref says it wasnt a red and the SHELS coach said it wasnt a red, i wud tend to agree more with them because they prob know the game a lot more than us, I am not disputing it was a foul or max yellow card but the fact that there was two covering defenders means that there was cover there. Wot if it had been a defender who committed the foul but there was cover, wud u say it was a red? It happened in the prem a few years ago when the keeper came out but there was cover so the ref booked him, which was the right decision.

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but the rules are open to interpretation. A goal scoring opportunity is denied if a foul is committed to prevent the attacker from carrying on to get a shot on goal. Any shot on goal is an obvious goalscoring opportunity.

If a defender fouls an attacker who would have been clean through on goal, with only the keeper to beat, is that an Obvious Goalscoring Opportunity?

I'll leave it at that now, i got my rant out, lets just go now and win the title and show nothing can stop us, not even rubbish refereeing

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Originally Posted by City till I Die

Look at it this way then if an ex pro ref says it wasnt a red and the SHELS coach said it wasnt a red, i wud tend to agree more with them because they prob know the game a lot more than us, I am not disputing it was a foul or max yellow card but the fact that there was two covering defenders means that there was cover there. Wot if it had been a defender who committed the foul but there was cover, wud u say it was a red? It happened in the prem a few years ago when the keeper came out but there was cover so the ref booked him, which was the right decision.

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Look - I've been refereeing full-time for the past 10 years and went to a pretty high level in England - I know Law pretty much inside out.

What btid and myself said concerning this holds true (concerning defenders covering and the definition of an Obvious Goalscoring Opportunity) - your interpretation - and that of the ex-pro LOI Ref (on another point - we have NEVER had Professional refs in this Association - purely down to the fact the FAI cannot afford to place them on Professional Contracts as they do with the PGMOL in England) are very flaky - and dare I say - incorrect...

This thread initially started out as a moan/rant/hatchet job on Match Officials from a certain city from a fan of a certain club.
It decended into libellous and defamatory comments quite quickly (most of which has been stripped out) - from which it never really recovered.

I was at the Branch Meeting of the Irish Soccer Referees Society last week - at which we had a presentation on the future structure of refereeing in this country (which is undergoing an overhaul)

We need to recruit an extra 1,000 or so referees over the next few seasons - maybe some of you who have been in here moaning and ranting about the standard can contact the FAI, get yourselves onto a refereeing course - and get out there doing games to help us out?

Somehow I doubt any of you will take me up on this offer...

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Look - I've been refereeing full-time for the past 10 years and went to a pretty high level in England - I know Law pretty much inside out.

What btid and myself said concerning this holds true (concerning defenders covering and the definition of an Obvious Goalscoring Opportunity) - your interpretation - and that of the ex-pro LOI Ref (on another point - we have NEVER had Professional refs in this Association - purely down to the fact the FAI cannot afford to place them on Professional Contracts as they do with the PGMOL in England) are very flaky - and dare I say - incorrect...

This thread initially started out as a moan/rant/hatchet job on Match Officials from a certain city from a fan of a certain club.
It decended into libellous and defamatory comments quite quickly (most of which has been stripped out) - from which it never really recovered.

I was at the Branch Meeting of the Irish Soccer Referees Society last week - at which we had a presentation on the future structure of refereeing in this country (which is undergoing an overhaul)
We need to recruit an extra 1,000 or so referees over the next few seasons - maybe some of you who have been in here moaning and ranting about the standard can contact the FAI, get yourselves onto a refereeing course - and get out there doing games to help us out?

Somehow I doubt any of you will take me up on this offer...

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Good news. Hopefully the government will plough more money into the refs association and get the refs currently their trained to a higher standard. Were can u get the rulebook for football online?? Nothing to do with this thread

Dahamsta, any chance of one of these:
http://www.vbulletin.org/forum/archi...p/t-69261.html
Pweese?

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Originally Posted by Réiteoir

Look - I've been refereeing full-time for the past 10 years and went to a pretty high level in England - I know Law pretty much inside out.

What btid and myself said concerning this holds true (concerning defenders covering and the definition of an Obvious Goalscoring Opportunity) - your interpretation - and that of the ex-pro LOI Ref (on another point - we have NEVER had Professional refs in this Association - purely down to the fact the FAI cannot afford to place them on Professional Contracts as they do with the PGMOL in England) are very flaky - and dare I say - incorrect...

This thread initially started out as a moan/rant/hatchet job on Match Officials from a certain city from a fan of a certain club.
It decended into libellous and defamatory comments quite quickly (most of which has been stripped out) - from which it never really recovered.

I was at the Branch Meeting of the Irish Soccer Referees Society last week - at which we had a presentation on the future structure of refereeing in this country (which is undergoing an overhaul)

We need to recruit an extra 1,000 or so referees over the next few seasons - maybe some of you who have been in here moaning and ranting about the standard can contact the FAI, get yourselves onto a refereeing course - and get out there doing games to help us out?

Somehow I doubt any of you will take me up on this offer...

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All the above is great and you obviously know the rules, but you also have a clear agenda in defending your fellow referees actions.

Your interpretation of the Derry sendings off you state as being correct, however I have seen many referees in this League and elsewhere interpret them differently.

Leave aside the Derry examples for a minute, the past few seasons, particularly this season, has, through the increased in televised games, reinforced what most EL fans already knew, namely that the standard of officiating is routinely absymal, with shockingly bad decisions being dished out on a disturbingly regular basis. Experience in European competitions reinforce this with the referees being uniformly more consistent and accurate in their application of the law.

FACT, as you Bohez fans like to say.

Regarding a Dublin bias or any sort of bias, the more incorrect or dubious calls a referree makes, the more this is going to raise its head. Taking simple steps like ensuring the referee is geographically neutral (as almost every other national association does) is a no-brainer.

If its more money thats needed to make referees more professional and therefore more accurate in their decision-making, then so be it. But they HAVE to improve to keep pace with the improvement in the standard of the League.

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Originally Posted by OneRedArmy

Is your ground built yet?

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Is this thread still going?:eek:

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Originally Posted by d f x-

Is this thread still going?:eek:

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It won't stop until we get our membership accreditation for the Ridden Rock Solid by Dublin Club :D

I thought it was Dublin refs, not Dublin clubs...:p

*pushes the argument round the circle one more time*:D

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Originally Posted by bohs til i die

well it is one way of explaining the amount of favourable decisions Derry have received from match officials in the Brandywell since the mid 80's.

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You could be right.

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Originally Posted by City till I Die

Good news. Hopefully the government will plough more money into the refs association and get the refs currently their trained to a higher standard. Were can u get the rulebook for football online?? Nothing to do with this thread

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I take it all back, having seen the video footage of the foul by Jennings, I have to admit to being totally wrong. How dare a referee send off a Derry keeper for coming out of his area and deliberately fouling a Shels player and stopping him from having an opportunity to score :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Réiteoir

Look - I've been refereeing full-time for the past 10 years and went to a pretty high level in England - I know Law pretty much inside out.

What btid and myself said concerning this holds true (concerning defenders covering and the definition of an Obvious Goalscoring Opportunity) - your interpretation - and that of the ex-pro LOI Ref (on another point - we have NEVER had Professional refs in this Association - purely down to the fact the FAI cannot afford to place them on Professional Contracts as they do with the PGMOL in England) are very flaky - and dare I say - incorrect...

This thread initially started out as a moan/rant/hatchet job on Match Officials from a certain city from a fan of a certain club.
It decended into libellous and defamatory comments quite quickly (most of which has been stripped out) - from which it never really recovered.

I was at the Branch Meeting of the Irish Soccer Referees Society last week - at which we had a presentation on the future structure of refereeing in this country (which is undergoing an overhaul)

We need to recruit an extra 1,000 or so referees over the next few seasons - maybe some of you who have been in here moaning and ranting about the standard can contact the FAI, get yourselves onto a refereeing course - and get out there doing games to help us out?

Somehow I doubt any of you will take me up on this offer...

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Réiteoir fair play to you for being a ref. Definitely a very tough job.

However surely you must see that the standard of refereeing here has gone downhill this season at an alarming rate. I wont bore you with what I've seen in the first division.

IMO what annoys players, managers and fans is the complete lack of communication from the officials. When a player asks about a decision he is booked. When a ref makes a mistake he never apologises or accepts responsibility (an Irish trait).

If officials came out in the media and said "Listen I made a mistake on the third goal and I hope I can learn from this." It would close the door on the incident.

But instead you have silence which leads to a grudge when the ref next does a game. Then you have to listen to tripe like Dublin bias etc.

Lack of communication leads to mistrust. However I am delighted to hear there is finally some accountability. After the farcical scenes in Bray Alan Kelly was suspended for a month. This is a forward step. But is it fair that his father is an assessor?

Officials are not helping themselves.

KOH

Watching Kennys TG4 interview on eL weekly & he always reminds me of Kevin Keegan. I half expected him to say "i'll love it when we beat them..."

:D :D :D

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Originally Posted by NY Hoop

After the farcical scenes in Bray Alan Kelly was suspended for a month. This is a forward step. But is it fair that his father is an assessor?

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I think he only got demoted for a month to lino.

Wasn't he lino at Cork vs. Bohs recently.

tbh - NYHoop - there are incidents like this in every national association - i could bore you with multiple tales of lunacy and such from my time watching games in England. :D

Plus the Alan Kelly thing isn't a unique thing - the manager/appointments officer of the National Group of Referees in England (the Football League referees) is the Father in Law of a Football League referee.

Up until two seasons ago referees in England were forbidden from speaking to any form of the media at all - this changed only at the top level with the introduction of the PGMOB - which is the body consisting of the Select Group of Premiership referees - we still cannot speak to anybody at local or Conference level.

I expect that with the changes coming about in the next few years that you will see a noticable change in how things are done at all levels of the game.

I'll also add that I've been back in the country for just under a month - but I'm itching to get out there and start refereeing locally

most of what you say is very true reitoir and fair play to you for saying it
hers two things i would like to see more of,
punish players who make a song and dance after refs make a dicision. (its done get on with it). Players who run towards a ref shold keep on running to the bench.
Refs match report must be honest I dont mind him making a mistake but when he compounds it by writing a misleading report to justify his dicisions that is wrong.
the refs assessor must be independant and he must not go into the refs room after the match his report should go directly to the FAI without consoltation with the refs.

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Originally Posted by Réiteoir

tbh - NYHoop - there are incidents like this in every national association - i could bore you with multiple tales of lunacy and such from my time watching games in England. :D

Plus the Alan Kelly thing isn't a unique thing - the manager/appointments officer of the National Group of Referees in England (the Football League referees) is the Father in Law of a Football League referee.

Up until two seasons ago referees in England were forbidden from speaking to any form of the media at all - this changed only at the top level with the introduction of the PGMOB - which is the body consisting of the Select Group of Premiership referees - we still cannot speak to anybody at local or Conference level.

I expect that with the changes coming about in the next few years that you will see a noticable change in how things are done at all levels of the game.

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Oh I'm sure there are incidents like this at every level in every league. Thing is it grates when you see these refs from here getting CL or international games.

Re changes believe it when I see it.

Do you have a link anywhere for the rules of the game?


KOH

http://www.fifa.com/en/laws/menu.htm

Good piece in the Times by Emmet M today. Bohs bits on this season's atrocious trilogy here.

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Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

This is the type of thing the NLSA should be looking to raise. Clubs can't criticise refs, as they risk fines etc. The fans, however, can. Why doesn't the NLSA write a letter to John Delaney stating that the level of refeering is now damaging the league, listing the more ridiculous decisions this year (Bohs goal, Bohs non-goal, Jennings sending off etc), and then press release the leter to the national media as well ? Papers will love the whole 'national fans representative body openly criticises refeering standards' angle. If the NLSA doesn't exist to tackle things like this, what does it exist for....?

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Anyone from the NLSA care to commment on the above ?

I posted a similar suggestion on the NLSA messageboard a couple of days ago, that has been looked at 5 times without response.

Do we have a fan body interested in raising fan issues, or does the NLSA aspire primarily to be a ticket agency for the FAI ? I think it's important we know....

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Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

This is the type of thing the NLSA should be looking to raise. Clubs can't criticise refs, as they risk fines etc. The fans, however, can. Why doesn't the NLSA write a letter to John Delaney stating that the level of refeering is now damaging the league, listing the more ridiculous decisions this year (Bohs goal, Bohs non-goal, Jennings sending off etc), and then press release the leter to the national media as well ? Papers will love the whole 'national fans representative body openly criticises refeering standards' angle. If the NLSA doesn't exist to tackle things like this, what does it exist for....?

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if the NLSA is to take up some sort of issue with John Delaney over the refereeing in the league then they fine, but the Jennings sending off was a correct decision.

Bring up incidents that are 100% clear cut caes of incompetence, not incidents were the referee actually got it right.

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Originally Posted by bohs til i die

if the NLSA is to take up some sort of issue with John Delaney over the refereeing in the league then they fine, but the Jennings sending off was a correct decision.

Bring up incidents that are 100% clear cut caes of incompetence, not incidents were the referee actually got it right.

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Look at the bigger picture BTID. Refs are sh!t in the league, and live TV is exposing that. I don't give a feck about giving 'contentious' examples of this (and your verdict on Jennings sending off is merely opinion, just as Stepehen Kenny's and Mick Neville's different interpretation was opinion). Regardless - there are plenty of cast-iron examples where refs have just been woeful, assuming examples are required to back-up any statement.

The refs have been a joke this year, and someone needs to say that. I can't see anyone being willing or able to say it except the press and the fans. We have a representative body for EL fans/supporters clubs, who would be the ideal people to raise this issue. So I'd like to know if they're interested in raising this, or if they see their role as purely being the distribution of tickets for the FAI ?

Well stone me look who is ref for the bohs-v-derry game on 6th Oct, only Ian Stokes!!! If he is fair then i'll hold my hands up, if he is biased towards derry, i'll accept its incompetence and rubbish but if he continues to favour bohs by giving them rediculous decisions, then my point will prove almost correct.....we shall wait and see???

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Originally Posted by City till I Die

Well stone me look who is ref for the bohs-v-derry game on 6th Oct, only Ian Stokes!!! If he is fair then i'll hold my hands up, if he is biased towards derry, i'll accept its incompetence and rubbish but if he continues to favour bohs by giving them rediculous decisions, then my point will prove almost correct.....we shall wait and see???

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You mean all the decisions referees have given derry incorrectly so far this season dont count as bias ?
It seems from you and other derry fans when a decision is given against derry its bias and when derry get a dodgy decision in their favour its . . . . well derry have never got a dodgy decision have they - I mean Shels didnt deserve a penalty last friday and sean hargan shouldnt have been sent off sure he was only saying hello to the lad :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by City till I Die

Well stone me look who is ref for the bohs-v-derry game on 6th Oct. If he is fair then i'll hold my hands up, if he is biased towards derry, i'll accept its incompetence and rubbish but if he continues to favour bohs by giving them rediculous decisions, then my point will prove almost correct.....we shall wait and see???

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This post completely takes away any validity your argument ever had.

However, your argument never had any validity anyway.

I have nightmares at night wondering how these referees gain their liscences!! I have going to the Brandywell for a long time now and it has been evident since day 1 that the referees have been biased towards Derry and perhaps also cork.

Something should be done immediatly, but the only good thing is that all those red cards have been televised and perhaps this will make the situation better. Does anyone no how long are keepers will be banned, will they be able to play against ucd on sunday??

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Originally Posted by elliott06

ISomething should be done immediatly, but the only good thing is that all those red cards have been televised and perhaps this will make the situation better. Does anyone no how long are keepers will be banned, will they be able to play against ucd on sunday??

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AFAIK Forde will be able to play.

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This post completely takes away any validity your argument ever had.

However, your argument never had any validity anyway.

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And so if stokes is biased towards bohs, will it have any validity then.....BTW everyone goes on about how we get dodgy decisions in our favour i agree. But the point i'm making is that every team will get dodgy decisions from refs every now and then but when ur team consistently gets dodgy decisions against them from refs from the same city as the opposing team, wot are we expected to think....aww just bad refereeing and incompetence!!! MY ARSE!!

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Originally Posted by BohDiddley

Good piece in the Times by Emmet M today. Bohs bits on this season's atrocious trilogy here.

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Are there video clips of the incidents?
Crazy decisions!!

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Originally Posted by elliott06

..... it has been evident since day 1 that the referees have been biased towards Derry and perhaps also cork.

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So referees are showing bias towards Derry, ah yes the truth is out :eek: :D

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Originally Posted by elliott06

... the only good thing is that all those red cards have been televised and perhaps this will make the situation better.....

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Agreed, hopefully now derry fans can see that Jennings was sent off for a dangerous tackle/serious foul play.

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when ur team consistently gets dodgy decisions against them from refs from the same city as the opposing team, wot are we expected to think....aww just bad refereeing and incompetence!!! MY ARSE!!

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But the problem is that lots of those decisions are correct, e.g. the three recent red cards were all good decisions and I'm far from a Shels fan, despite being from Dublin amazingly.

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Originally Posted by Schumi

But the problem is that lots of those decisions are correct, e.g. the three recent red cards were all good decisions and I'm far from a Shels fan, despite being from Dublin amazingly.

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Ssssssshhhhh, that doesnt matter to the poor downtrodden derry folk . Dont you know referees arent allowed send derry players off ;)

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Originally Posted by City till I Die

And so if stokes is biased towards bohs, will it have any validity then.....BTW everyone goes on about how we get dodgy decisions in our favour i agree. But the point i'm making is that every team will get dodgy decisions from refs every now and then but when ur team consistently gets dodgy decisions against them from refs from the same city as the opposing team, wot are we expected to think....aww just bad refereeing and incompetence!!! MY ARSE!!

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Seems to me that you know you've completely lost this argument and now have to deal with hypothetical analogies.

And yes you should think that it is bad refereeing and incompetence. In 10 years of going to EL games I've never seen a ref get every single decision right.

Incidentally, as I've seen very little of Derry this season, could you give an example of this, and I'll use your own words for this, "consistent dodgy decisions" against Derry, from a Dublin team, with a Dublin ref. And don't use the recent ones against Shels because almost everyone agrees that they were all red cards.

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Originally Posted by City till I Die

but if he continues to favour bohs by giving them rediculous decisions

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What are you talking about continues?

Go and have a look at the league cup semi against Shels and see if he ever started giving us favourable decisions! :mad: :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

Anyone from the NLSA care to commment on the above ?

I posted a similar suggestion on the NLSA messageboard a couple of days ago, that has been looked at 5 times without response.

Do we have a fan body interested in raising fan issues, or does the NLSA aspire primarily to be a ticket agency for the FAI ? I think it's important we know....

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Totally unfair and you know it. At the meetings the ticket issue takes about a minute. The rest is taken with EL matters.

The refereeing problems will be brought up at the next meeting.

Calm down its not a conspiracy against DCFC.

KOH

Referees are not biased, to be biased they would need to know what they doing.

Referees will always make decisions which some people will agree on & others will not. I think the difference this season is that some clear examples where decisions made to award goals that never crossed the line & also not ward goals that have crossed the line. These are basic rules of the game & not opinions on events on the pitch.

What is the solution? How do you make referees better when they are volunteers?

:confused:

very well paid volunteers

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Originally Posted by DmanDmythDledge

Incidentally, as I've seen very little of Derry this season, could you give an example of this, and I'll use your own words for this, "consistent dodgy decisions" against Derry, from a Dublin team, with a Dublin ref. And don't use the recent ones against Shels because almost everyone agrees that they were all red cards.

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"almost everyone" doesn't agree with the Derry sendings off, including some of the print and TV media.

Add in Heary's non-sending off for striking an opponent, 2 yards in front of the 4th official and this is where people get conspiracy theories from.

Emmet Malone's piece in the IT is balanced enough.

Almost every league in the world uses geographically neutral refs, why do we have to be different? (the composition of the panel is irrelevant, its not like they are head and shoulders above the rest)

And why the hell should it be a surprise that a bunch of Dubs (as most of the posters on this thread are) rubbish accusations of Dublin bias?

I'll say it again for the hard of hearing, there's an easy solution to this, APPOINT A NEUTRAL REF.