Dublin City aims for Europe

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11/01/2006, 2:48 PM
dcfcsteve

Quote:

Originally Posted by Breifne

I'm sure that if you had to investigate the entry of every club into the national league at the time of their entry it would have some suspect dealings.

An absolutely absurd comment. How can you be so sure ??

The current make-up of the Eircom league owes its roots largely to the expansions in the League that occured in the 1980's, and the changes since then - listed as follows :

NEW ENTRANTS TO EIRCOM LEAGUE/LEAGUE OF IRELAND

1984 : (All due to Expansion)
Cork City, Longford Town.

1985 : (All due to Expansion)
Bray Wanderers, Cobh Ramblers, Derry City, EMFA (now Kilkenny City), Monaghan United, Newcastle United (later Newcastle West, now defunct).

1990 :
St James's Gate (Now defunct, took place of Newcastle West).

1996 :
St Francis (Now defunct, took place of St James' Gate).

2003 :
Kildare County (took place of St Francis).

That's 11 clubs who've joined our currently 22 team league over the last 22 years, 9 of which still remain.

So which of those particular entries into the league had "some suspect dealings" involved with it ? (And for the jokers - Derry gaining special dispensation from FIFA was hardly a suspect dealing) ?? :confused:

The only even vaguely suspect dealings from amongst the above related to a club LEAVING the league - not joining. St Francis 'merged' with/was swallowed by St Pats in 2002 them at very short notice without giving the League any notice of their intentions - meaning that there were only 11 clubs competing in the Premier Division for season 2002/3.

To try to give legitimacy to Seery's underhand tactics by claiming that every other club in the league is there through some sort of dodgy dealings is clearly absurd and pathetic.

Coincidentally - to follow your arguements through - are St Pats no longer the same St Patrick's Athletic they've always been, purely because St Francis Fc allegedly 'merged' with them in 2002....?
11/01/2006, 4:07 PM
Bald Student

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

Coincidentally - to follow your arguements through - are St Pats no longer the same St Patrick's Athletic they've always been, purely because St Francis Fc allegedly 'merged' with them in 2002....?

Keep up Steve, we covered this example earlier:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bald Student

As an analogy, UCD's Men's and Women's clubs are currently administrated seperately. If we were to merge at some point in the future it should not affect UCD's league position,
11/01/2006, 4:23 PM
dcfcsteve

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bald Student

Keep up Steve, we covered this example earlier:

Sorry BS - but you're completely wrong here.

UCD's male and female teams can NEVER be technically viewed as the same thing. They compete in completely different spheres, and under current footbalkling rules cannot have the same players in any way. What you do administratively is therefore irrelevant - it may be of note to lawyers and Office Managers who worry about such things, but whetehr or not your women's team is being adminsitered alongside the men's team would change not one bit your senior team, it's sphere of competition, its operations, or its continued existence. Just like the Junior part of Home Farm splitting off from the senior part of Home Farm made no difference to the senior club.

From what your saying - any time an Eirom League club gains or loses a junior team, a female team, a disabled team, whatever, then the senior team MUST be treated as an entirely new entity ! It's previous history, tropjhies etc is no-longer relevant, as Year Zero starts at that point ! That's clearly ridiculous.....

Conversely - St Pats and St Francis were direct competitors operating in the same sphere of competition (senior Irish football). A merger between those 2 CANNOT just be dismissed as the same as an internal administrative change involving 2 parts of exactly the same body !
11/01/2006, 4:39 PM
Bald Student

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

From what your saying - any time an Eirom League club gains or loses a junior team, a female team, a disabled team, whatever, then the senior team MUST be treated as an entirely new entity ! It's previous history, tropjhies etc is no-longer relevant, as Year Zero starts at that point ! That's clearly ridiculous.

For the record, I said the exact opposite. Apart from that we're in agreement.
11/01/2006, 10:31 PM
Breifne

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

Just like the Junior part of Home Farm splitting off from the senior part of Home Farm made no difference to the senior club.

I'm giving up, not wasting any more time on this joker, he obviously hasn't read any post by anyone except himself. He has the basis of his argument completely scewed.

It was the senior section which was the breakoff. Home Farm (who won the FAI cup in the 70's i think, not sure, don't care i have nothing to do with them.) are in the same boat as St. James Gate. They left the National League and now compete in the Leinster Senior League.

The entity now known as Dublin City (led by the former Home Farm CEO Ronan Seery, who was disappointed when Home Farm decided to pull out of the eL and decided to go it alone as Home Farm Everton) was established at this point and admitted to the national league. Maybe the wool was pulled over someones eyes at this stage. I don't know. Was DCFCsteve at the league meeting. Has he got a copy of the minutes of that meeting. I don't know what happened. Any problem which anyone can have with our existence is solely to do with what happened at this meeting.
11/01/2006, 10:48 PM
dcfcsteve

Quote:

Originally Posted by Breifne

The entity now known as Dublin City (led by the former Home Farm CEO Ronan Seery, who was disappointed when Home Farm decided to pull out of the eL and decided to go it alone as Home Farm Everton) was established at this point and admitted to the national league.

Excellent - so we're all in agreement then.

Dublin City was set-up in 1995 under the name of Home Farm Everton. So the club DID start life as Home Farm (albeit the 'Everton' and 'Fingal' varieties), and the club DIDN'T begin in 2001/2, as Seery and a lot of your fans seem to believe and claim. End of story.

Finally we're all there.:D I prounce this therapy session over- the truth is out and the delusion ends. :D

Now, what say we try and get to the bottom of Crop Circles next.....? :p
11/01/2006, 11:13 PM
OneRedArmy

Regardless of their origin, I'd say this is a make or break year for Seery FC. Without a significant increase in attendances (and not just away fans) surely the penny will drop with El Presidente? ie that its hard enough to get fans and scrape by when you have a history like Bohs, Shels, Pats and Rovers (and to a lesser extent UCD), never mind building a franchise from scratch.

The biggest shame, as pointed out above, is that he didn't put his money and his personal commitment into one of the big 4 Dublin clubs which have a history, a fanbase and a realistic prospect of long-term survivial.
11/01/2006, 11:36 PM
Bald Student

Quote:

Originally Posted by OneRedArmy

Regardless of their origin, I'd say this is a make or break year for Seery FC. Without a significant increase in attendances (and not just away fans) surely the penny will drop with El Presidente? ie that its hard enough to get fans and scrape by when you have a history like Bohs, Shels, Pats and Rovers (and to a lesser extent UCD), never mind building a franchise from scratch.

The biggest shame, as pointed out above, is that he didn't put his money and his personal commitment into one of the big 4 Dublin clubs which have a history, a fanbase and a realistic prospect of long-term survivial.

Brilliant, I can see seven more pages being added to this thread.

1. UCD was founded (depending on who you talk to) well over 100 years ago and has just as much history as any of the other clubs you've named. Highlights include winning the World University Championships, being the first western sports team to tour China in about 40 years, being the biggest adult club in europe for about 20 years now and generally being better than Trinity.

2. You're going to have to tell us which teams you mean when you say the 'big 4 Dublin clubs'. My league table tells me that that puts UCD 3rd, or 4th if you count Bray.

(That last comment was just to make sure the thread did indeed get to 14 pages.)
12/01/2006, 12:50 AM
dcfcsteve

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bald Student

Brilliant, I can see seven more pages being added to this thread.

Watch out Tottywatch.... ! :D
12/01/2006, 2:18 AM
mypost

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bald Student

Brilliant, I can see seven more pages being added to this thread.

Another thread on the non-existence of a fake "club". Just as well that it only takes up 4 pages so far on my PC. :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by breifne

Home Farm (who won the FAI cup in the 70's i think, not sure, don't care i have nothing to do with them.)

As a Home Farm fan, it has a lot to do with you. 1975, remember then??

Saying that is like I saying that our 6 cups in a row in the 60's has nothing to do with me. I wasn't a Rovers fan at the time, I didn't go to the matches, I wasn't even born then, but as a Rovers fan, it is automatically a part of my/our history.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

2003:Kildare County (took place of St Francis).

St Francis 'merged' with/was swallowed by St Pats in 2002 them at very short notice without giving the League any notice of their intentions - meaning that there were only 11 clubs competing in the Premier Division for season 2002/3.

Wrong, I'm afraid Steve. In summer 2001, Pats and Francis merged, and Francis duly left the league. There were a full 12 teams playing in the Premier Division in the 2001/02 season, however, there were just 9 First Division clubs, vying for one promotion place. Everyone else in the division had a week off, when originally due to play St. Francis that season. The situation most affected promotion-chasers Waterford United, who had the misfortune to finish their season one week before everyone else, because of the anomaly. Kildare County played their first league game in July 2002.

Quote:

Originally Posted by breifne

I'm giving up, not wasting any more time on this

...a lot like your club will have given up on Premier Division survival next season, by about the end of April.
12/01/2006, 6:42 AM
CollegeTillIDie

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cosmo

Good to hear - better you lot and ronan seery doing what you're at than doing that.

Like ffs I would love if both UCD and Dublin weren't in the Premier League, and a couple of other teams with big support from around the country got promoted.

But they're there on merit - if 2 clubs with sh!t support can do it, I can't see why its not possible for the likes of Finn Harps, Galway, Craptown, etc to do it? :confused:

Dublin City are here on merit, so live with it and hopefully other clubs from around the country can learn a thing or 2 from them get promoted, send the both down (no offence dublin or UCD supporters ;) )and we've more country teams with decent suppot in the Premier League

Not only are UCD and Dublin City in the Premier Division on merit they are also two of the better run clubs in the EL , not to mention in Dublin. Don't forget Hoops fans, you are in the First Division purely because your previous board were a bunch of dishonest gobsheens( which is why the 8 points were deducted)!
12/01/2006, 9:07 AM
monutdfc

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bald Student

being the biggest adult club in europe for about 20 years now

eh??? explain please
12/01/2006, 9:49 AM
OneRedArmy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bald Student

Brilliant, I can see seven more pages being added to this thread.

1. UCD was founded (depending on who you talk to) well over 100 years ago and has just as much history as any of the other clubs you've named. Highlights include winning the World University Championships, being the first western sports team to tour China in about 40 years, being the biggest adult club in europe for about 20 years now and generally being better than Trinity.

2. You're going to have to tell us which teams you mean when you say the 'big 4 Dublin clubs'. My league table tells me that that puts UCD 3rd, or 4th if you count Bray.

(That last comment was just to make sure the thread did indeed get to 14 pages.)

1. I don't enjoy watching football in grounds with small attendences and consequently poor atmosphere. If I did, I'd watch games in the local park more often as its cheaper.

2. Bray is in Wicklow and big isn't defined by League position.
12/01/2006, 10:34 AM
dcfcsteve

Quote:

Originally Posted by mypost

Wrong, I'm afraid Steve. In summer 2001, Pats and Francis merged, and Francis duly left the league. There were a full 12 teams playing in the Premier Division in the 2001/02 season, however, there were just 9 First Division clubs, vying for one promotion place. Everyone else in the division had a week off, when originally due to play St. Francis that season. The situation most affected promotion-chasers Waterford United, who had the misfortune to finish their season one week before everyone else, because of the anomaly. Kildare County played their first league game in July 2002.

Apologies MP - my feck-up on the dates and the division. Embarassing, given that I have the tables from 2001/2 and 2002/3 sitting in-front of me :o

I really should start those remedial reading classes again.......!:)
12/01/2006, 10:56 AM
NY Hoop

While not getting into an obsessive state about CHF I think any sane fan would agree that they would be better served in the LSL. This is not about point scoring or personal abuse its just that no club should have been let into the league with no support especially from the capital. Five clubs in Dublin is enough and should never be added to.

CHF, St Francis and St James Gate should have never been in the league in the first place.

The only way to rectify this is to deny CHF a league place next year and replace them with a country club. But before this is done this country club will have to fulfil certain conditions such as potential crowds, business plan and proper facilities. Instead of the old way of the nod and wink which is how CHF came into being.

KOH
12/01/2006, 11:13 AM
Cosmo

Quote:

Originally Posted by NY Hoop

The only way to rectify this is to deny CHF a league place next year and replace them with a country club.

Ny Hoop, in fairness you're talking total sh!te there!!

It would be stupid if the EL decided to relegate a club because of their location ffs.

Easy solution is for the country clubs to be run better than Seery and Dublin city and therefor they'll get relegated naturally. Or maybe the other clubs dont have it in them!
12/01/2006, 11:24 AM
NY Hoop

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cosmo

Ny Hoop, in fairness you're talking total sh!te there!!

It would be stupid if the EL decided to relegate a club because of their location ffs.

Easy solution is for the country clubs to be run better than Seery and Dublin city and therefor they'll get relegated naturally. Or maybe the other clubs dont have it in them!

Cosmo read my whole post please. Not relegate them but out altogether not because of their location but because of their lack of support. What other properly run league in the world would admit a club with no support?

I was referring to replacing them with a well run country club. For example the Kerry side or Castlebar Celtic etc. Thats not "****e" it makes sense.

KOH
12/01/2006, 11:29 AM
Cosmo

Quote:

Originally Posted by NY Hoop

Cosmo read my whole post please. Not relegate them but out altogether not because of their location but because of their lack of support. What other properly run league in the world would admit a club with no support?

I was referring to replacing them with a well run country club. For example the Kerry side or Castlebar Celtic etc. Thats not "****e" it makes sense.

KOH

I agree with ye that theres too many dublin teams but ffs ye cant relegate a club because of their location or lack of fanbase (we'd be the laughing stock of football :D ). If a club with f**k all fans stay in the Premier League it doesnt say alot of the clubs that with fans that go down :(
12/01/2006, 11:55 AM
NY Hoop

Cosmo again I didnt say relegate I said out, gone, finished, not in the league. We are the laughing stock of football cos they are IN the league.

KOH
12/01/2006, 12:01 PM
bigmac

Quote:

Originally Posted by NY Hoop

For example the Kerry side or Castlebar Celtic etc.

KOH

Is that the Kerry side that wouldn't enter the league cup because of prohibitive costs? It's all very well saying that we should let in other teams instead of DC but these other teams don't seem to want to be in the league! Why not just leave DC in the league and bring in 2 new clubs to the first division. If DC truly aren't viable then they won't last in the premier and one of the other teams can take their place.

Anyway, why attack DC over doing their utmost to get into the league? If you're not happy with what the FAI/EL did then surely you should blame them?
12/01/2006, 12:01 PM
dcfcsteve

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cosmo

Easy solution is for the country clubs to be run better than Seery and Dublin city and therefor they'll get relegated naturally. Or maybe the other clubs dont have it in them!

Not necessarily. Success and being run properly don't always equate in football - particularly in the short-to-medium term.

Clubs can be badly run yet do much better than other clubs that are well-run - simply because a philosophical cornerstone of badly-run football clubs seems to be a willingness to gamble on future success. Spending money you don't have, or need to borrow, on the future promise of glory/returns. Well-run clubs don't take such risks.

For example - Leeds United spent 5 years as a Top 5 Premiership club in England, and were less than 90mins away from a Champions League final. At the time no-one realised that this was all being funded speculatively. There were other much better-run clubs in the English Premiership at the time who didn't share that level of success - some of whom were relegated. Eventually the Leeds bubble burst, as gambles often fail - but it proves the point that doing well doesn't always mean you're well run. Just like not sharing success doesn't necessarily mean youre badly run. Clubs with small fan bases could be run exemplary yet never, ever win anything as a result of living within their means.

Also - 'country' clubs have to work harder just to stand still, as they don't have the benefit of location for away fans. I'll guarantee you that Dublin City will receive a higher income from away fans this season than AT LEAST HALF the rest of the Premier Division will. That's got nothing to do with how well run they may be, and everything to do with location. They could be propped-up financially by income from away fans, purely through being Dublin-based.

Now - I'm not saying Dublin City are badly run, as I simply don't know what their finances look like. But there are question marks over them and a number of other Premier Division clubs who people suspect are spending beyond what their fan-base would suggest is appropriate/sensible. Living off hand-outs from wealthy benefactors (e.g. Seery) is not a sustainable means of existence, and could also be considered as evidence of living beyond your means. No doubt Dub City fans will attack me for saying that, but they know as well as I do that there is a lingering suspicion amongst fans on all of this.
12/01/2006, 12:05 PM
dcfcsteve

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigmac

Anyway, why attack DC over doing their utmost to get into the league? If you're not happy with what the FAI/EL did then surely you should blame them?

BigMac - read the previous posts.

The EL/FAI cannot be held to blame, as they weren't asked to do anything other than accept yet another name change from Home Farm/Seery.

Seery is the one who pulled a fast-one - claiming a name change for what he now says was actually a totally new entrant into the league. Was that perhaps because he knew if he'd asked for his club to be elected, as per the stipulated procedure, he would've been unlikely to succeed....?
12/01/2006, 12:22 PM
NY Hoop

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigmac

Is that the Kerry side that wouldn't enter the league cup because of prohibitive costs? It's all very well saying that we should let in other teams instead of DC but these other teams don't seem to want to be in the league! Why not just leave DC in the league and bring in 2 new clubs to the first division. If DC truly aren't viable then they won't last in the premier and one of the other teams can take their place.

Anyway, why attack DC over doing their utmost to get into the league? If you're not happy with what the FAI/EL did then surely you should blame them?

I gave those 2 clubs as examples. Bringing in more clubs into the league is a complete no no. There are simply not enough players or fans to go around.

Am not attacking CHF for getting into the league. It was the league clubs at the time who voted them in who are to blame.

KOH
12/01/2006, 12:23 PM
Cosmo

Quote:

Originally Posted by NY Hoop

Am not attacking CHF for getting into the league. It was the league clubs at the time who voted them in who are to blame.

KOH

Thats my point - Ye cant just chuck a club out of the league because ye suddenly decided that they have no supporters or that theres too many clubs in area (imagine fulham been told that :D )

Been admitted in to the league in the first place is another matter, but they're here now so people should just deal with it ;)
12/01/2006, 12:28 PM
NY Hoop

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cosmo

Thats my point - Ye cant just chuck a club out of the league because ye suddenly decided that they have no supporters or that theres too many clubs in area (imagine fulham been told that :D )

Been admitted in to the league in the first place is another matter, but they're here now so people should just deal with it ;)

Suddenly decided?? Hardly. it was blatantly obvious if they were taking Home Farm's place that they would have no fans before a ball was kicked.

Your comparison with Fulham, a club with history and thousands of fans is ridiculous.

The only way to "deal with it" is by showing them the door.

KOH
12/01/2006, 12:28 PM
Ringo

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cosmo

Thats my point - Ye cant just chuck a club out of the league because ye suddenly decided that they have no supporters or that theres too many clubs in area (imagine fulham been told that :D )

Been admitted in to the league in the first place is another matter, but they're here now so people should just deal with it ;)

It will be interesting to see what support Rovers will have in the First division. A lot of long Journeys in the First Division
12/01/2006, 12:31 PM
NY Hoop

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ringo

It will be interesting to see what support Rovers will have in the First division. A lot of long Journeys in the First Division

Bring it on. We'll always be there as we've proven year in year out.

KOH
12/01/2006, 12:32 PM
Cosmo

Quote:

Originally Posted by NY Hoop

Suddenly decided?? Hardly. it was blatantly obvious if they were taking Home Farm's place that they would have no fans before a ball was kicked.

Your comparison with Fulham, a club with history and thousands of fans is ridiculous.

The only way to "deal with it" is by showing them the door.

KOH

Only put the fulham comparison because they've a sh!t fanbase for Premier League and in a city with loads of teams (as that was your main point :confused: )

So now its new clubs with no history shouldnt be allowed into the league?

Look I'm not disagreeing with ye on the point that theres too many dublin clubs in the Premier League and I would love to see both them and UCD to go down. However ye cant just chuck a team out of the league because they have a poor fanbase, too many teams in the region, no history, etc (or whatever reason like that :eek: !!)
12/01/2006, 12:33 PM
pineapple stu

Quote:

Originally Posted by NY Hoop

Bring it on. We'll always be there as we've proven year in year out.

But of course, seeing as you don't make an effort against lesser-supported teams, you'll spend most of the season in silence...;)
12/01/2006, 12:36 PM
NY Hoop

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cosmo

However ye cant just chuck a team out of the league because they have a poor fanbase, too many teams in the region, no history, etc (or whatever reason like that :eek: !!)

St James Gate.

KOH
12/01/2006, 12:45 PM
Cosmo

Quote:

Originally Posted by NY Hoop

St James Gate.

KOH

Well to be honest I never knew the politics of why they left the league so I cant really comment on it.

It shouldn't be done anyway. Thats my point.
12/01/2006, 12:46 PM
pineapple stu

They went broke.
12/01/2006, 1:32 PM
dcfcsteve

Quote:

Originally Posted by NY Hoop

Am not attacking CHF for getting into the league. It was the league clubs at the time who voted them in who are to blame.

KOH

Guys - PLEASE try to understand the history of what happened. There was NO vote to accept Harm Farm Evertoin into the league as a new team in 1995. Seery registered them as a name change - that's all.

Therefore, there was nothing for the league clubs to vote on !! They DIDN'T vote them in !!
12/01/2006, 1:56 PM
Schumi

I know I really shouldn't add to this silly thread but...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Breifne

The entity now known as Dublin City... (Ronan Seery... decided to go it alone as Home Farm Everton) was established at this point

So is Continuity Home Farm Everton an acceptable nickname then?

NY Hoop: There are no country clubs looking to enter the league to replace anyone. Mayo and Kerry's teams are reducing their involvement in the last couple of years.
12/01/2006, 2:03 PM
NY Hoop

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schumi

NY Hoop: There are no country clubs looking to enter the league to replace anyone. Mayo and Kerry's teams are reducing their involvement in the last couple of years.

How do you know that for sure? Also I only gave those 2 as examples.

KOH
12/01/2006, 2:20 PM
dcfcsteve

Quote:

Originally Posted by NY Hoop

How do you know that for sure? Also I only gave those 2 as examples.KOH

Excatly - you just don't know.

For a start, the 2 Mullingar teams (Athletic and Town) have made noises in the past about joining, and Athletic went up-against Kildare County for the slot in 2003. How do you know they're still not interested 3yrs later ?

Would you have thought anyone wanted to join the league in 2003 ? I bet not. But when the chance arose, 2 clubs did. So why are you so confident now ?

There was an article in the Derry Journal at Christmas about a consortium of local businessmen who want to see senior football in Letterkenny (consistently Ireland's, and one of Europe's, fastest growing towns). They'd rather do it by relocating Finn Harps - but as Harps seem intent upon staying in a village in the middle of nowhere, they are prepared to go it alone instead with a fresh application to the league if required. Reportedly they're now looking at relocating Fanad United - a highly successful junior club- to Letterkenny as part of their strategy in this.

How can you be so sure that there aren't clubs interested ? The above suggests that there is, and you never really know until you ask....
12/01/2006, 3:03 PM
Raheny Red

http://foot.ie/showthread.php?t=32205

Well Mayo have no uder 21 team anymore so that would be an indication that they may not be interested in joining the eL!
12/01/2006, 5:14 PM
Maynard

Here's an idea, why don't NY Hoop and DCFCSteve put a proposal together and try and run the eL themselves? They obviously know so much about how the league and other clubs should be run. I know that I and many more of my pompous, self reighteous sh1t blowing friends would be more than happy to elect them. Soon the league could have such a wonderful fixture list, containing mouth-watering ties like Shamrock Rovers Vs Derry City, Derry City Vs Shamrock Rovers, Rovers Vs Bohs, Bohs Vs Rovers, Derry City Vs Duine Eile, Mulingar Under 12's Vs Shelbourne, Mayo League Ladies Vs St Pats etc

Two focking geniuses we have on our hands here lads...
12/01/2006, 5:21 PM
Ringo

Quote:

Originally Posted by NY Hoop

Bring it on. We'll always be there as we've proven year in year out.

KOH

you haven't been in the first division . we'll see how many supporters you have next year.
12/01/2006, 5:37 PM
WeAreRovers

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ringo

you haven't been in the first division . we'll see how many supporters you have next year.

We sure will.

Here's a bet for you, we'll have higher home attendances than you next season and we'll bring waaaaaaay more to away games than you do. A bet I'd be very confident of winning because it doesn't matter what division Dublin City are in no one gives a flying one. Our hardcore, on the other hand, will be there week in week out.

KOH

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