1,836 saw the game of the round at Eamon Deacy park but that’s a very poor crowd
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1,836 saw the game of the round at Eamon Deacy park but that’s a very poor crowd
It was good to keep one stand closed bar the away section though. It meant that on TV it look good. Its always better to have fans grouped together like that as they would sit as far apart as possible dotted around the ground effectiing atmosphere. Could another 2 or 3 blocks be added to the new stand in EDP? It looks like there is space when behind goals are restricted. 1800 isnt awful, its almost 5k over 2 games on one weekend.
On the subject of Longford attendances. 1800 approx at Galway tonight for a supposed population of 86,000 in the county. That's over 2%, and not the first time it has happened irrespective of being a monday or friday game. If we say Longford average 550 per game, for 10,000 town, -> 5.5%. And surely similar examples for other clubs.I do believe Longford is capable of getting closer too 1,000 for more games, but there's also a bit of glass houses action with some people when it comes to attendances. I thought 500+ for UCD last week was impressive considering that was all home fans.
The population of county Galway is 276,000, the city is 86kQuote:
Originally Posted by MoydowMonty
I know, I intentionally kept it to the Towns. Longford's population is 40,000. If you want to do the percentages for those numbers it would be even lower obviously.
100%. Leitrim v Longford in a big game in Div 4 at the weekend, local derby, Longford in the mix for promotion and a rare Croke Park appearance and I'm told only around 500 at it. LTFC's attendances aren't that bad.Quote:
Originally Posted by MoydowMonty
When you compare anything with something similarly bad, you feel better about yourself, like a dwarf among midgets.
Anything under an average of around 4,000 probably isn't sustainable for professional football. Generous donors needed to prop it up.
Its sustainable, but club may have to change its level of ambition. LoI is like an arms race until something happens and things crash only to do it all again. Some have to reset, some are lucky to be able to plug the holes, some get an opportunity to compete for a while. Its probably not far off the days of Cork rumoured to be paying what 4k a week mid 2000s. Drogheda not fah off. 6 figure signing on fee paid by Dundalk in a new boom and bust cycle, who is up next during this one - possible those who think they are most immune.Quote:
Originally Posted by Buckett
Approximately 17,000 fans attend the 5 Premier games on a Monday night. The LOI has really established its position as a top spectator sport.
17000 doing a lot of heavy lifting here when 60% was at 2 gamesQuote:
Originally Posted by nr637
Louth are limited with attendance in Ardee and sold out 3200 last 2 games but they wouldn't get more than 5000 of they had the capacity (was only 4000 at Cork game in Drogheda when Ardee was waterlogged)Quote:
Originally Posted by outspoken
Dundalk and Drogheda combined would always outnumber a Louth game (bar a big championship game) and Louth are absolutely flying the last few years. Even a few years back played Cork in last 12 All Ireland Inneskeen (which is basically in Louth) and was only 5000 at it
In Dublin, it's doing well. Outside the Dublin hinterland, it's still struggling really. Bohs, Pats, Shamrock Rovers and Shelbourne all going strong, but it dips off after that.Quote:
Originally Posted by nr637
Obviously Drogheda have capacity restrictions, so we can't know what they'd be hitting, but hardly much more than Dundalks current average which is just below 3,000. Derry in with an urban area population of over 100,000 people, and the added James McClean return, are still only half filling their stadium. The aforementioned Galway, only averaging 2.5k in a sporting mad city, while Sligo and Waterford tip along around 2.7k average each in large enough urban areas of their own.
The First Division tells a real tale of how 'established' the LOI has become in spectator sport circles. Take out Cork City attendances and the average for the division sits at a pretty dreadful 845. Even at 1,110 along with Cork City, it doesn't scream sustainable professional football at all, despite a couple of the teams in there operating either full time, or hybrid full time models.
First of the season.
PREMIER DIVISION
Bohs - 10,003 (5,682{2025}; 4,241 {2024}; 4,243 {2023}; 3,209 {2022};2,878{19}; 2,148; 2,006; 1,627; 1,724; 1,395; 1,597)
Derry - 3,854 (3,468; 2,875; 3,336; 3,184; 2,049; 2,297; 1,517; 1,563; 1,124; 1,106; 1,446)
Drogheda - 2,347(2,296; 2,023; 1,916; 1,941; 721 FD; ; 377 FD; 850; 583 FD; 813; 1,0641)
Dundalk - 2,994 (1,854 FD; 2,419; 2,636; 2,689; 2,775; 2,738; 2,674; 2,738; 3,158; 2,534; 1,997)
Galway - 2,563 (2,785; 3,014; 2,018 FD; 2,081 FD; 780 FD; 746 FD; 1,376; 1,169)
Pat's - 4,379 (4,293; 4,402; 4,232; 3,489; 1,919; 1,621; 1,504; 1,088; 1,321; 1,386; 1,687)
Rovers - 5,710 (5,996; 6,071; 6,109; 5,379; 3,384; 2,749; 2,809; 2,041; 2,890; 2,269; 2,763)
Shels - 5,119 (4,562; 4,262; 3,393; 2,913; 1,071 FD; 654 FD; 496 FD; 554 FD; 596 FD; 713 FD; 1,114)
Sligo - 2,789 (2,814; 2,858; 2,555; 2,166; 1,995; 1,853; 1,717; 1,750; 1,750; 1,959; 2,342)
Waterford - 2,682 (2,608; 2,733; 1,833 FD; 1,705 FD; 1,496; 2,329; 1,550 FD; 314 FD; 460 FD; 470 FD; 478 FD)
FIRST DIVISION
Athlone - 815 (489; 642; 872; 307; 382; 130; 154; 156; 314; 653 PD; 754)
Bray - 1,119 (1,061; 644; 663; 482; 773; 643 PD; 966 PD; 957 PD; 769 PD; 718 PD; 891 PD)
Cobh - 1,160 (815; 731; 1,020; 872; 268; 236; 358; 403; 366; 223; 439)
Cork - 3,047 (3,053 PD}; 2,881; 3,666 PD; 3,517; 2,505 PD; 4,245 PD; 4,559 PD; 2,533 PD; 3,263 PD; 3,777 PD; 1,965 PD)
Harps - 934 (853; 1,023; 1,154; 1,293 PD; 1,154 PD; 708; 1,202 PD; 1,216 PD; 784; 449; 479; 429)
Kerry - 592 (663; 610; 784)
Longford - 539 (552; 450; 679; 500; 610; 449; 342; 488 PD; 803 PD; 567; 379)
Treaty - 868 (1,000; 1,060; 642; 695)
UCD - 324 (349; 336; 809 PD; 953 PD; 739 PD; 365; 236; 297; 216; 397 PD; 487 PD; 506 PD)
Wexford - 936 (624; 556; 689; 445; 235; 181; 338; 585 PD; 553; 331; 227)
PREMIER AVERAGE: 4,203 (3,774; 3,490; 3,289; 2,687; 2,185; 2,170; 1,902; 1,476; 1,681; 1,502; 1,566)
FIRST DIVISION AVERAGE: 1,110(826; 894; 1,035; 1,193; 586; 413; 477; 476; 486; 495; 391)
OVERALL AVERAGE: 2,914 (2,300; 2,192; 2,162; 2,051; 1,500; 1,249; 1,387; 1,117; 1,249; 1,160; 1,140)
OVERALL PREMIER ATTENDANCE: 147,089 (679,256; 628,157; 592,093; 486,365; 393,238; 316,515; 376,627; 292,204; 332,805; 297,334)
OVERALL FIRST ATTENDANCE: 27,741 (148,689; 160,964; 186,369; 178,000; 79,115; 55,756; 53,461; 52,807; 54,474; 55,408)
OVERALL COMBINED ATTENDANCE: 174,830 (827,945; 789,121; 778,462; 664,365; 472,353; 372,271; 430,088; 345,011; 387,279; 352,742)
Such an obvious replyQuote:
Originally Posted by nr637
The Dublin City club balance is one of the great successes of the LOI and a feature of the league. It would be similar to the GAA and Dublin playing most of their games at Croker which the GAA hierarchy need for their attendance figure balance, but is an issue for the rest of the country GAA supporters. The biggest issue now is the capacity constraints for most clubs which is created by the facilities provided and the lack of any real government investment. Most clubs have done exceptionally well with what they have. I think the First Division is at a level that clubs can achieve or strive for especially with the new third tier division due. The popularity and ambition is another success for the game with the amount of interest in this new structure. Like most sports there will be areas that will traditionally struggle but the demand for participation is at a high level.
There is no doubt that the four Dublin clubs are doing extremely well, both on and off the field and esp within their capacity constraints, as you say.Quote:
Originally Posted by nr637
But I can't help wondering why Dublin, which is a genuine "football city" with a (wealthy) population of 1.3m (+ 750k in Greater Dublin?), cannot support more clubs to a high level. Compare that eg with Belfast, which has four clubs in the Prem and another four in the Championship.
Granted, only two of those Prem clubs are completely f-t (the other two are hybrid, with ambitions towards f-t). While the four Champ clubs incl Newington, who don't have their own ground; Queens Uni, who are maybe the equivalent of UCD(?); and Dundela, who are a grand, historic club with potential, but whose pitch is too narrow to be permitted at top level, but cannot be widened. (H&W Welders are the fourth, and they have a terrific stadium/set-up).
Tbf, these four don't attract crowds to compare even with the LOI FD. Then again, the population of Belfast (city) is only 350k, with the wider area amounting to maybe 650k, with a number of other Senior clubs all within a close distance to the city.
From what I read, it seems there is a lot of talk of expanding LOI football to new areas which don't currently have any, but might there not be a lot of untapped potential in Dublin itself? Thereafter, were that to be exploited fully, then you could grow the game more easily from the centre out, than the other way round?
Getting the NL up to speed with the top two tiers has to be the aim, and can certainly help towards raising standards throughout. But depending on who/where the participating clubs are located, might there not the danger be that it is very lopsided, incl trying to "carry" provincial clubs, some of them completely new entities, which are a long way off competing with their fellow NL clubs, never mind aspiring to the FD?Quote:
Originally Posted by nr637
"But I can't help wondering why Dublin, which is a genuine "football city" with a (wealthy) population of 1.3m (+ 750k in Greater Dublin?), cannot support more clubs to a high level."Going down that route could end up like the The Argentine Primera División which is heavily concentrated in Buenos Aires and the Greater Buenos Aires area, which some call a metropolitan league!
It needn't go that far, or even as far as London - twice the population of ROI, but 7 x PL clubs, 6 x EFL clubs and a dozen(?) more within the immediate surrounding areas.Quote:
Originally Posted by nr637
I'm merely making the point that there must be a lot of untapped potential in Dublin, yet the FAI/LOI appear to be concentrating more on developing clubs in the provinces, including places which have never had LOI football before. (I always think there must be a reason for that)
welll you have 6 out of 20 if you include Bray and UCD with Rovers,Shels , Pats and Bohs but the problem with starting new clubs Dublin City, Cabinteely is they have no support and are reliant on investment which when it runs out there goes the club
Football is the number 1 sport by a country mile in London, at best footballl is fourth in Dublin in terms of support behind GAA football, Hurling and Rugby the crowds for the Dubs in football and hurling and Leinster for Rugby would be higgher than all the Dublin clubs together......maybe not every match but on balanceQuote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
I have noticed when comparing crowd sizes between Dublin and Belfast cubs people tend to use the whole of the county of Dublin as a population against the population of Belfast City. Dublin City itself is just under 600k and this is traditionally up until 2009 where the 4 major clubs were based and mainly attracted their support from. Football is popular in the County of Dublin but would come under serious pressure from the GAA in North County Dublin and rugby in South County Dublin. There has been a huge influx of people into Dublin over the last 20 odd years or so and unfortunately the majority of people don’t seem that interested in the league speaking from personal experiences. There are many attractions competing for punters on a Friday evening in Dublin compared say to Belfast at 3pm on a Saturday. Facilities or lack of in 3 of the 4 grounds is a big turn off especially for say non Dubs and also at times the standard of the product on offer. I work with football fans from across the world and when I ask them have they gone to a game here the list above is usually the reason why they may have gone to 1 and no more or haven’t gone at all.
I'm not talking about "parachuting in" new clubs - that clearly doesn't work.Quote:
Originally Posted by sbgawa
Admittedly from the perpective of someone with no direct knowledge of Dublin football, I was thinking more of already well-established, existing clubs which might, in time, aspire to Senior status.
That's one way of measuring it.Quote:
Originally Posted by sbgawa
But "support" isn't binary i.e. a lot of people who attend Leinster or GAA games have also an interest in Football.
While your definition of "biggest" doesn't take account of the number of people who play the various codes - local, schools and colleges, youth football, LSC etc - plus the various other volunteers and administrators etc. In that respect, Football must be much closer to GAA and Rugby than you allow.
All of which is before you account for the the ability to pack out Lansdowne with 50k for ROI games, never mind "TV football fans" - Celtic, Man U, L'pool etc - who might conceivably be recruited to the joys of local football*.
* - Not just instead of, but as well.
The LOI clubs currently in Dublin have a lot of untapped potential which , apart from Rovers , can only be realised through large investment in outdated stadiums with restricted capacities . Surely it’s better to realise the full potential of these clubs rather than introduce new clubs which will also be looking to draw from the same pot where finances are concernedQuote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
If any Intermediate/Junior Dublin clubs are ambitious enough, they'll have their chances to develop through the National League.Quote:
Originally Posted by Glen Of Aherlow
But there's no question we'd be better off as a league overall if we try to develop the big 4, Dublin clubs + UCD and Bray, than have 20 smaller clubs in Dublin all trying to operate at Senior level.
All that'd do is dilute resources and talent, so we don't have talented players playing with other talented players and most will end up with poor facilities.
Not 1 crowd within even a couple of hundred of 1000 this weekend in the first division
Yeah Longford crowd looked very small, disappointed given it was a nice day. Hopefully that win might draw a few out next week.
Our 2 games at home to Wexford last season didn't even break 450. So 542 last night is an improvement. If we somehow went every home game getting minimum 500 at each I think that could be called a success.
Leagues with most aerial play as per aerial duels per 90' ball in-play...
https://x.com/i/status/2035401054402273568
From comments elsewhere on here seems Treaty are joining the hoof ball brigade. Kerry's brand of football so far this evening is poor as well. VM don't even acknowledge First Division except for the promotion-relegation one off playoff. In terms of podcasts - LOI Central Premier focussed only.
First Division playoff is a lifeline but the division as a whole gets low national coverage.
I'd worry about some of these as well with the clubs counting all season ticket holders as attended whether they are there or not so I think the actual crowd is probably smaller ?Quote:
Originally Posted by outspoken
Ya can't be showing the first division on a national broadcaster, it's absolutely shyte. If a floating sports fan saw it and assumed that the Premier was basically the same, the sport here would never grow! It's the graveyard for good reason. If a club doesn't like it, step up and get yourself out of it!
I had heard VM were going to show the goals from the FD this season but some of the footage simply wouldn't be broadcastable on TV.
Au contraire, isn't that exactly how we expect to get bums on seats, if it got a bit more coverage?Quote:
Originally Posted by Buckett
Audio issues were the reason I was given. Most of the commentary sounds horrible, and not even just the commentary itself, the sound is awful.Quote:
Originally Posted by outspoken
Very early in the season for things to be falling off to those numbers. Can’t blame the weather, or any big clashes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Roones26
Tough for the clubs. Is there any real way to grow First Division attendances?
Sorry that's what I meant. Again, I'd never criticize another commentator, most of the lads in the FD are volunteers but some of the carry on couldn't be put on TVQuote:
Originally Posted by nigel-harps1954
The playoffs are a lifeline but since Waterford - no clubs have looked likely to earn promotion via the playoffs.Quote:
Originally Posted by cobhlad
FAI Cup semi finals aren't played in neutral venues. League Cup finals used to have a home team. When Bray took on Waterford in the promotion/relegation playoff, if it was over two legs having a bumper crowd when hosting the Premier opponent would be a big event.
There's no major incentive for finishing 2nd or 3rd. The deck chairs of the playoff lifeline possibly could be adjusted. Down to the clubs & FAI to work that one out.
Treaty for their region are underperforming. Are there many other clubs where a sizeable support would be expected..
I think there's a nuance to this piece, like you do want to see it get more coverage, but you also need to have it presented in a way that doesn't confirm people's pre-existing biases and I'm not certain that showing a game on TV with, with respect, a minimal attendance will do much positiveQuote:
Originally Posted by nigel-harps1954
I genuinely don't know what the answer to the FD is, a lot of them are provincial clubs, which we can litigate again what an acceptable attendance is, but I think even being charitable, you would expect it to be better than that. Perhaps there is a piece in the structure that its too difficult for clubs to compete with 11 clubs for 10 places I think its a super challenging one
You wouldn't necessarily need to broadcast the commentary if you were just showing the goals? Could just have graphics and maybe crowd noise or someone introducing it. Not 100% ideal but better than not showing anything.Quote:
Originally Posted by outspoken
Isn’t that what they do anyways for the premier division goals? They play the goals and Tommy Martin gives a quick run through description from the live studioQuote:
Originally Posted by Longfordian
Yes, but a consistent average of over 500 per game is the level that the First Division has reached and consistently over a 36 game format.Quote:
Originally Posted by Roones26