Netherlands V Republic of Ireland - Saturday, 18 November 2023 - Euro 2024 Qualifier

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

That's a bit mad.

Saturday on its own would have been overlooked had it not been the culmination of lots of poor results of course.

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What's also a bit mad is he thinks Saturday night was a good game of football.

"We played Holland the other night, one of the best teams in Europe. People will have their own opinions on it but I thought it was a good game of football,".

"No question, Holland were the better team. We fought to the end of that game, we didn't create enough, we know that, and we defended for our lives when we needed to. It wasn't like we lost 4-1 to Wales or got hammered in Cyprus or Macedonia the other night, it was a tight game in Holland that we lost 1-0 and deserved to lose. It was one of those games, I think a bit of perspective on that,"

He said he had sought job assurances but wasn’t given any. I’d read his comments in that context. He’s swinging after the bell. It’s over.

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Saturday on its own would have been overlooked had it not been the culmination of lots of poor results of course.

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I’m by no means trying to defend the now indefensible but I thought it was interesting that in the last few days Armenia took their total to 4 points from Wales (they should have won late on Saturday too though Wales were throwing men forward), Azerbaijan beat Sweden 3-0 on Thursday (lost 5-0 yesterday though) and Luxembourg beat Bosnia 4-1. Luxembourg actually got 17 points from 10 games in qualifying.

So by themselves any of the poor results against teams of this stature aren’t to be unexpected, but the overall string of results was pretty poor. I honestly felt we were turning a corner around the time we beat Luxembourg away but that and Scotland were about as good as it got.

Has he already forgotten that we lost to Luxembourg?

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

I’m by no means trying to defend the now indefensible but I thought it was interesting that in the last few days Armenia took their total to 4 points from Wales (they should have won late on Saturday too though Wales were throwing men forward), Azerbaijan beat Sweden 3-0 on Thursday (lost 5-0 yesterday though) and Luxembourg beat Bosnia 4-1. Luxembourg actually got 17 points from 10 games in qualifying.

So by themselves any of the poor results against teams of this stature aren’t to be unexpected, but the overall string of results was pretty poor. I honestly felt we were turning a corner around the time we beat Luxembourg away but that and Scotland were about as good as it got.

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hard for a lot of people to take on board that the likes of armenia and Luxembourg (two teams we should be beating but have no devine right to beat) arent as bad as they were 10/20 years ago. these results have been coming down the tracks for a country like Lux given the good work theyve done in the underage ranks over the past 5/6 years. we were desperate in the home defeat to them no getting away from it but people need to stop treating them like they are a current day Liechtenstein or San Marino or a Macedonia from 20 years ago. really grates on me that people are still going on like losing to Lux at home was the most humiliating thing of all time.

Luxembourg is a very small country; while we we have no divine right to beat them, we really have to be asking ourselves hard questions if we're losing to them, and finishing a campaign on the same points as them as we did in 2022 qualifying. Their U21s got one point in their last qualifying campaign (against us...) and three points in the campaign before that. Have they really been doing anything special at underage level?

Azerbaijan has a lot of oil money and have put it into their clubs, but they don't seem to have built a strong culture there yet. There's a couple of clubs have reached the groups but I don't think they've particularly strong academies.

Sweden are a shambles at the moment (they have let their current manager go btw). They gave two early goals away to Azerbaijan (both individual defensive mistakes) and just couldn't get going after that. The third goal was a lob from distance with Azerbaijan playing with 10 men.

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Luxembourg is a very small country; while we we have no divine right to beat them, we really have to be asking ourselves hard questions if we're losing to them, and finishing a campaign on the same points as them as we did in 2022 qualifying. Their U21s got one point in their last qualifying campaign (against us...) and three points in the campaign before that. Have they really been doing anything special at underage level?

Azerbaijan has a lot of oil money and have put it into their clubs, but they don't seem to have built a strong culture there yet. There's a couple of clubs have reached the groups but I don't think they've particularly strong academies.

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their 17s + 19s made big leaps over the last number of years. regularly getting thumped by big scores before then , now some what competitive. point is they arent a san marino yet loads on here still talk about them like they are a minnow who should easily be swatted aside. fact is the vast majority of the weak nations from 10/15 years ago have all improved to a certain extent apart from Lietch and San Marino. While as everyone knows we've gone backwards. Hopefully a new manager can improve things but ive never been as down on ireland as i am now. weve nothing coming through in midfield. a new manager should be better at in game decision making + changes than kenny, who was awful at it, but if we dont have better options than cullen and molumby then we'll continue to struggle .

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Originally Posted by ifk101

He said he had sought job assurances but wasn’t given any. I’d read his comments in that context. He’s swinging after the bell. It’s over.

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This was always the problem with keeping him on after Greece. He was a dead man walking and would be facing questions about his reign while still having to keep defending it in some way. In the best way he could. It was bound to get awkward and/or bitter. Imagine being a player in the squad the last couple of days, I’d say it’s absolute misery.

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Originally Posted by Jd2793

their 17s + 19s made big leaps over the last number of years. regularly getting thumped by big scores before then , now some what competitive. point is they arent a san marino yet loads on here still talk about them like they are a minnow who should easily be swatted aside. fact is the vast majority of the weak nations from 10/15 years ago have all improved to a certain extent apart from Lietch and San Marino. While as everyone knows we've gone backwards. Hopefully a new manager can improve things but ive never been as down on ireland as i am now. weve nothing coming through in midfield. a new manager should be better at in game decision making + changes than kenny, who was awful at it, but if we dont have better options than cullen and molumby then we'll continue to struggle .

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I’d be fairly optimistic about the future – new manager dependent. Think we do have an improving group of players. As for midfield, there’s a lot more to get out of Smallbone and Andy Moran can hopefully develop into a competent player for us. Cullen has come into recent criticism, but I think this is more due to our shape and the space we are giving up. It’s too much ground for Cullen to cover quite simply. If we become more compact, the midfield should be better for it. But the players are there to build a strong defensive base, we have pace in wide positions, and we have a striker that’s going to score if we get the ball to him. With a relatively young squad profile, there is potential to be considerably better than we currently are.

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Originally Posted by ifk101

Sweden are a shambles at the moment

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They missed a hilariously bad open goal from right under the bar early on saturday I think.

yeah i dont think you are wrong with most of your points tbf. i am a bit skeptical with smallbone though. doesnt seem like he has the physical attributes for where we'd like to go? again could be down to space he is being asked to cover and infairness we always seem open. if only you could combine molumbys energy with cullens football. still think we need some sort of a no8/6 to come through soon if we are to push on.

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Originally Posted by SkStu

This was always the problem with keeping him on after Greece. He was a dead man walking and would be facing questions about his reign while still having to keep defending it in some way. In the best way he could. It was bound to get awkward and/or bitter. Imagine being a player in the squad the last couple of days, I’d say it’s absolute misery.

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It makes very little sense,whatever way I look at it, particularly after the FAI dug in on clauses which delayed the contract on this part of his tenure. The only way it makes sense is for Hill & Canham especially, it will now be borderline impossible their first appointment to the role doesn't bring improvement they can point to. Maybe I'm way too cynical at this stage.

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Originally Posted by Jd2793

their 17s + 19s made big leaps over the last number of years. regularly getting thumped by big scores before then , now some what competitive. point is they arent a san marino yet loads on here still talk about them like they are a minnow who should easily be swatted aside. fact is the vast majority of the weak nations from 10/15 years ago have all improved to a certain extent apart from Lietch and San Marino. While as everyone knows we've gone backwards. Hopefully a new manager can improve things but ive never been as down on ireland as i am now. weve nothing coming through in midfield. a new manager should be better at in game decision making + changes than kenny, who was awful at it, but if we dont have better options than cullen and molumby then we'll continue to struggle .

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I don't think anyone really thinks they're a San Marino or a Liechtenstein though. Underage results are a strange one in terms of how it factors into the senior side, in part because there's still so many players who just won't make it, certainly at international level, and you can also have the flip side of one really good year.

We've beaten them three times out of the last four at 21s level, while at 17s and 19s they're still behind us.

I still think if we're losing to them, we have to ask ourselves hard questions as to why.

Edit - actually, one neat way to see how the likes of Luxembourg have improved over the years is the Eloratings site. We played them in Euro 88 qualifying when we were rated 1764 (and about to take off of course) while they were 1156. Translates to about a 5% chance of a Luxembourg win in any given game. Fast forward to 2021, and we had dropped to 1650, while they were up to 1396 (about a 20% chance of a win). They're 1520 now, so they're continuing to improve, while we're still falling (1614).

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

They missed a hilariously bad open goal from right under the bar early on saturday I think.

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Yeah 2 times in the same attack movement. :-)

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Their U21s got one point in their last qualifying campaign (against us...) and three points in the campaign before that. Have they really been doing anything special at underage level?.

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I remember last year, maybe summer, I checked this out. Details are a little hazy but it’s somewhere on foot if anyone wants to waste time time finding it.

We had about 9 (or 10) 21s eligible lads either in the squad or missing through injury (where they were already squad regulars). No one in Europe had more than 4 players (or 3) - with the exception of Luxembourg who had 7 or something. So understandable that their 21s would have really suffered.

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Originally Posted by Jd2793

yeah i dont think you are wrong with most of your points tbf. i am a bit skeptical with smallbone though. doesnt seem like he has the physical attributes for where we'd like to go? again could be down to space he is being asked to cover and infairness we always seem open. if only you could combine molumbys energy with cullens football. still think we need some sort of a no8/6 to come through soon if we are to push on.

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Agree about Smallbone. I think he looks very casual as a player. Doesn’t convince me at all. He looked good in one of the friendlies for a spell, linking up with Doherty (Might have been Latvia ?) but apart from that really hasn’t done anything that would have you saying he’s a future star.

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Originally Posted by EalingGreen

Interesting comment from SK post game: "The Republic of Ireland have never won an away game against a tier one team in history..."

"Surely not?" I thought. But looking back on it, if you discount a couple of wins away to England in the British Championship, NI have only managed it twice (I think) in competitive games, vs Spain and West Germany, with the last of those in 1983!

I suppose SK got it right when he added: "and it's because it's very hard."

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He may well have meant competitive away fixtures, but we did beat the Dutch and Germans away in the build-up to USA '94

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Originally Posted by elatedscum

Let’s not be stupid about this. Wales and Austria aren’t Tier 1 teams. France we didn’t beat.

Tier 1 teams are:

Germany
France
Spain
Italy
England
Netherlands
Portugal
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Belgium
Croatia

First 7 are sure things. Belgium and Croatia aren’t always but are in the last decade

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We may not have beaten any of these teams away in competitive fixtures, but since the start of the Charlton era we have drawn away in competitive fixtures against all of them except Croatia - and that's the difference - it's always been very, very hard to beat tier one teams away from home, but right now it seems very, very hard for us to even draw with them.

We've also beaten Germany, Holland, Spain and Croatia at home in that time.

Win your home games and draw your away ones and you'll go far. Instead, Kenny's best has been to draw the home ones and lose the away ones

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

We've also beaten Germany, Holland, Spain and Croatia at home in that time.

Win your home games and draw your away ones and you'll go far. Instead, Kenny's best has been to draw the home ones and lose the away ones

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or in the case of this campaign, lose both.

I wouldn't wish any ill will on Stephen, but the comments about previous managers is petty and small time. O'Neill is a nasty piece of work who has enjoyed slinging it but basic cop on would tell you not to slag off a guy who won two European Cups, managed at a high level and had us competitive. I personally hated our style of play under O'Neill but you wouldn't be saying it's great under Kenny. Having a pop at Stan was out of order. An Irish legend who appeared in three world cups. In fairness, on paper, Stan had a very decent team and you could argue he did a worse job pound for pound given the resources at his disposal.

Kenny only had Coleman as a proper senior pro that could contribute anything of note as a player and he's injured a lot. The others are either past it like Duffy or limited like McClean (both have a skillset that was used much better by O'Neill). I feel sorry for him in this regard but despite what people are saying we actually have our most talented players coming through in twenty years. I'm glad to have Kenny gone with a view to maximisimg these players either in the team already or the ones about to come in like Moran. By the way, Moran will be a very good player for us imo. Hard to know what his ceiling will be, but I feel it will be good to very good premier league player.

We started the 2020s in disarray. Let's end it after playing in Euro 28 and in the mix for qualification for wc 2030.

He had that tier 1 comment ready to roll – which is a problem. Even EalingGreen needed to check that up. So, it appears Kenny had his excuses ready prior to the result in the Holland, meaning he spent time in the build up preparing for defeat.

Understandable he’s making comments he believes can help keep him in the job, but in doing so he is revealing he is not currently doing his job as his mind is pre-occupied with fighting his corner.

Even the Faroes got a point against a team higher than them in this qualifying group. The Faroes. Against the group winners no less.

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Originally Posted by Bungle

Kenny only had Coleman as a proper senior pro that could contribute anything of note as a player and he's injured a lot. The others are either past it like Duffy or limited like McClean (both have a skillset that was used much better by O'Neill). I feel sorry for him in this regard but despite what people are saying we actually have our most talented players coming through in twenty years. I'm glad to have Kenny gone with a view to maximisimg these players either in the team already or the ones about to come in like Moran. By the way, Moran will be a very good player for us imo. Hard to know what his ceiling will be, but I feel it will be good to very good premier league player.

We started the 2020s in disarray. Let's end it after playing in Euro 28 and in the mix for qualification for wc 2030.

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yes and he dropped him when he took over. One of the many glaring errors he made.

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Originally Posted by Jd2793

surprised at the reaction to bazunu. thought he should have done much better for the goal.

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How dare you criticise him. He's playing every week in the pub league, so he's exempt from it. Beaten at the near post this time. Yes he made a few other saves, but by then the damage was done, and the three points were gone.

The stats are stark, 8 games played, 6 defeats, 10 goals conceded. An ever present in the worst Irish qualifying performance in 50 years.

When the new manager comes in, hopefully he won't select a goalkeeper who he can't rely upon to keep the ball out of the net. The first step on the road to progress.

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Originally Posted by mypost

How dare you criticise him. He's playing every week in the pub league, so he's exempt from it. Beaten at the near post this time. Yes he made a few other saves, but by then the damage was done, and the three points were gone.

The stats are stark, 8 games played, 6 defeats, 10 goals conceded. An ever present in the worst Irish qualifying performance in 50 years.

When the new manager comes in, hopefully he won't select a goalkeeper who he can't rely upon to keep the ball out of the net. The first step on the road to progress.

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As opposed to who? A grown man calling the English championship a pub league would make me seriously question your intellectual facilities.

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Originally Posted by LurcherLover

As opposed to who? A grown man calling the English championship a pub league would make me seriously question your intellectual facilities.

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I see you've met mypost.

There are multiple posters reporting that post, so I'm going to ask mypost to tone it down.

C'mon lads, grow up will ye? Did your mammies never tell ye to just ignore people that bother ye?

If you don't have the self-control to do it yourself, get the website to do it for you:

https://foot.ie/profile.php?do=ignorelist

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Originally Posted by dahamsta

C'mon lads, grow up will ye? Did your mammies never tell ye to just ignore people that bother ye?

If you don't have the self-control to do it yourself, get the website to do it for you:

https://foot.ie/profile.php?do=ignorelist

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Calling out gobsh1tery is part of the fun sometimes : )

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Originally Posted by John83

I see you've met mypost.

There are multiple posters reporting that post, so I'm going to ask mypost to tone it down.

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Tone what down, I did nothing wrong. I've used that phrase several times before, it applies to all leagues in England below the EPL.

I know people like to equate the quality of the league he plays in, with the Champions League that many of our opponents do, but facing opponents such as Rotherham every week is not the same as facing Real Madrid, it just isn't. The gulf in standards between the EPL and the next one down, is currently being shown by what the three promoted sides from last year are doing.

In the past 18 months, Kenny went with him in goal, just as Hassenhuttl did, and Jones did. They all lost their jobs, he's still there. His supporters tell us that Travers should be next in the pecking order. Well he got another go against New Zealand, but couldn't even be trusted to keep the ball out of the net for 20 minutes, leaving a gap as wide as the Dodder for the equaliser. What league does he play in???

Fair play mypost, I think pinning Kenny's sacking on Bazunu might be your best work yet. 10/10.

Another fan boy of a club in England thats feels a player sitting on the bench of said club deserves be Irelands No.1 keeper because he supports said English club. Thats honestly an argument you'd get from a child in a playground.

I don't actually think it's his argument and you are lacking evidence to substantiate the alleged motive. On the plus side, you clearly have some expertise in the sphere of "playground arguments."

I think it's not far off in fairness. My post is a Liverpool fan afaik.

He is indeed. This thread used to be fairly active and entertaining back in the day.

https://foot.ie/threads/19993-Everto...ool-discussion

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Originally Posted by SkStu

He is indeed. This thread used to be fairly active and entertaining back in the day.

https://foot.ie/threads/19993-Everto...ool-discussion

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Good Lord, what a treasure trove of forgotten posters!

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Originally Posted by third policeman

I don't actually think it's his argument and you are lacking evidence to substantiate the alleged motive. On the plus side, you clearly have some expertise in the sphere of "playground arguments."

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I don't think you should call yourself a policeman with those detective skills. It's clearly Planning.

I would enjoy a thread where people talk about mypost but don't ever reply to his posts.

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Originally Posted by mypost

Tone what down, I did nothing wrong. I've used that phrase several times before, it applies to all leagues in England below the EPL.

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Okay, let me spell it out for you then: by using that phrase, you are winding people up. If you continue to wind people up, I'll give you an infraction.

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Originally Posted by ontheotherhand

I would enjoy a thread where people talk about mypost but don't ever reply to his posts.

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We could call it the pub thread, and it would be below his station to respond in it.