It was so pedestrian and static. No movement, understanding or penetration. We’re not progressing!
It was so pedestrian and static. No movement, understanding or penetration. We’re not progressing!
I've never seen a manager at any level make so many poor substitutions.
What keeps me awake is that Malta could beat us 2-0 and he still won't be sacked
Yet another insipid performance - it feels like Groundhog Day.
Keeping Kenny on simply means more of the mediocre same. Things will never improve and Kennyites will never get the smug told-you-so moment they obviously crave.
We'll be out of the running for qualification within three or four matches; guaranteed. We're just marking time before the inevitable happens and Kenny is finally relieved of his duties. What a waste of talent and time.
Kenny had newly-emerging options to call on, yet we get a midfield of Cullen, and the limited Molumby and Browne. It's a friendly, and one we (predictably) lost anyway. What's to be gained from using these players? What more is there to learn that we don't already know? Then he brings on Hendrick and Brady. F**king hell. Ferguson got a token two minutes. Again pointless.
I despair...
Big fan of Kenny for years but . At this stage it’s time for something new the next campaign even in a terrible group. I just can’t see this set up going anywhere worthwhile.
Awful, awful stuff. How much more of this will we have to endure? It was obvious 18 months ago this was going to be a disaster and - other than a short good spell at the end of the World Cup campaign that was almost certainly down to Anthony Barry's influence - nothing has changed.
I suppose it might be best to let him start the next qualification group at this point, we're not going to get out of it anyway so he might as well own another failure rather than saddling some new manager with it. But once we're out of the running, which will no doubt be after two or three games, we need to get a new man in and give him the rest of the group as a free pass to start fixing the problems Kenny will have left behind.
Unfortunately that was really one for the Kenny Out brigade. Decent spell at the start of the second half, but overall very poor.Quote:
Originally Posted by D24Saint
It's always seems to be one step forward and then three steps back with Kenny. That was woeful.
I was sat there with my brother and we both agreed the lack of enthusiasm was our biggest issue. We thought the solution was to put Sykes and Smallbone on. Making their debut they might at least have been arsed enough to run about a bit.
The substitutions were dreadful
They can say what they like, but the players clearly aren't playing for him.
Was thinking the same. Laughing away at his own voice mostly.Quote:
Originally Posted by joey B
I don't mind Brady coming on. He's been injured for ages but he still has something to offer, so in that regard it's good to get him back in the fold.Quote:
Originally Posted by Trequartista20
Not too bothered Ferguson - with one league appearance ever - didn't get more time. But I do think there was a missed chance at more experimentation. Sykes and Smallbone aren't going to be game changers, but they're the kind of players friendlies are for.
Worst of all was that Norway weren't very good. Gave silly possession away when we pressed them properly. Which was rare.
I thought 8 of tonight's 11 did fine. Robinson individually was awful, nowhere near the player of a year ago. Obafemi's first touch was off tonight but was also starved of good ball, so he gets a pass from me.
But while I thought the general balance of the team was fine the team was screaming out for a creative player in Browne's position. We had good width from the full backs, a firm base from Cullen and Molumby but a creative player in Browne's position would probably have changed that overall performance. Knight was missing obviously, but Smallbone, McGrath, Brady, Ronan or even O'Dowda could have added something in the last third.
I just don't see the need for conservatism in a game like this. A rookie could have been given a chance with so many other solid performers on the pitch.
The starting selection was too conservative for that reason. The squad itself was (marginally) too conservative which probably predicted SK's approach to the games. The substitutions were again too late and failed to address the - glaringly obvious imho - fundamental weakness in the team's play. And it's not the first time SK has overlooked the importance of an attacking playmaker in this shape.
The second goal was an absolute nothing goal. Infuriating.
It's been clear that Kenny is more interested in getting results to save his job rather than develop our players for a long time now. When he played aging players like Coleman and McClean against Belgium B while not making any subs until after the 75th minute, the nonsense he was spouting should have been put to bed. He's still at the same thing now. It was a meaningless friendly, try out players!
I don't think the result matters too much, it's just that it adds to more to the negativity that has surrounded Kenny's miserable reign. It's been a horrible 2 years and another really poor interview to add to it.
It looks like Kenny is now more worried about losing these pointless friendlies than trying something new, or giving an untested player a chance.
You'd have people singing his name at the end too, celebrating failure. Embarrassing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Diggs246
It's like the GameStop bubble - the more people point out that the emperor has no clothes, that the company is a failed and outmoded business model - a busted flush with the stock essentially worthless - the more the true believers double down and buy more and more shares. Those telling unpleasant truths, like Jim Cramer, are derided, becoming hate figures.
Then, the inevitable happens; the bubble bursts and it all ends in tears - reality biting hard and the fantasy over.
Brexit and Britain is the non sporting comparison I'd draw, but yeah, same sort of thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Trequartista20
Why bring Ferguson on at all then? Pure tokenism. Completely pointless.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
It was as conservative a line-up and choice of substitutes as he could have gone with - and we lost anyway. A wasted opportunity. You just know Hourihane would have seen minutes if he'd been available
I'm ok with tokenism. For me the value of Ferguson's call-up was a week of involvement with the seniors. But he's an academy player with one senior league appearance in England to his name. He was hardly likely to have turned the game if given the second half.Quote:
Originally Posted by Trequartista20
I'd have been more keen to see Sykes/Smallbone as they at least have a run of club games under their belts. (McGrath I could take or leave at the moment; lower SPL isn't a good level)
One good thing seems to have happened tonight - the public mood seems to have swung heavily against Kenny. Surprising that it would happen from a friendly when we've had to suffer so many poor displays in competitive games but tonight seems to have particularly triggered people for some reason.
Maybe it has partly come on the back of the meltdown at home to Armenia in the second half also, or maybe it's just seeing him take a friendly so seriously at home against a cobbled together Norway team and still not being able to pull out a result, but the mood has definitely changed now.
This is a good thing, being honest. The Kenny era has bitterly divided the support so hopefully this is the start of some common ground being found again, even if it is at his expense.
Malta 2-2 Greece tonight btw.
Sunday is a real banana skin
Maltese Falcon ! !
Very frustrating night. Fairly sure there was a murmur of boos as Hendrick was coming on. As usual the subs very frustrating both in timing and personnel. I’d have really like to have seen Smallbone for at least 25 minutes if not from the start, definitely brings another dimension I terms of quality on the ball compared to Browne.
I think the main difference tonight was they gave the crowd very little to get behind in the first half, no real urgency or goal threat and conceded a soft enough one from a set piece. Started to get the crowd on side second half, but lost them again with the Hendrick sub and another soft concession.
Bazunu’s confidence really seems to have taken a knock and he was definitely below the level we’d want. There was some promise in O’Dowda’s performance and at least that was a useful experiment. There was definitely a sense in the selection that the manager felt not losing was more important than looking at more options or experimenting. Understandable in many respects but also a bit disappointing.
Robinson and Obafemi just didn’t work together. Robinson got on the ball more but was poor, Obafemi just couldn’t get into the game at all. Doherty always looks fairly uninterested in friendlies and thought he had a quiet game too.
Malta is definitely a tricky one now. A loss and we’re definitely back to square one and the FAI have a big decision to make on the future of the management team.
Just looking at their last nine games since WC qualifying ended & its - D W L W L W L W W.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
Beaten Azerbaijan ( ! ) Israel, Kuwait and San Marino twice in those.
Apart from the substitutions themselves, there was nobody warming up until around the 65th minute, so no player was in a position to come on until the 70th minute, at the earliest
At that stage, Norway had made three substitutions
You don't need to be Sam Spade to work out that this could be a very tricky assignment.Quote:
Originally Posted by seanfhear
Poor in-game management has been a feature of his time in charge.Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsujin1979
Indecision, a reluctance and inability to identify problems and make the requisite alterations to personel and shape, and questionable substitutions, that often arrive far to late to be impactful, are all hallmarks of the Kenny era.
FWIW I disagree profoundly with those knocking Robinson. I thought he was our brightest player on the night.
Everyone to their own view, but if you watch it back there was an awful lot of possession breaking down with him when it shouldn't have. Failed to release, more then once too, didn't see the pass or just didn't play it. I thought he was weak tonight.Quote:
Originally Posted by backstothewall
Not sure about brightest, but he was much improved in the second half. Having said that, I would have taken him off instead of Obafemi for Ogbene. He was shattered, whereas Obafemi still looked freshQuote:
Originally Posted by backstothewall
Wasn’t able to tune into the game at all today due to work but caught the “highlights” so to speak. All round seems a pretty dismal showing and those substitutions, Ferguson aside, are ridiculous. Because of the task he had in front of him and the tough hand he was dealt at times, I’ve been patient - some probably think too patient - but I wouldn’t be at all bothered at this point if he was to move on. The steps back continue to be bigger than the steps forward.
The thing I like about Robinson is how often he seems able to wriggle past a defender or find some other way to bring the ball into dangerous areas. He tries things, and sometimes that means giving it away, but so be it. Forwards have to take risks to make to things happen.
I like him.
I don't think there's any future with Kenny. He's built a good foundation but I no longer think he's the man to build on it. His in game management hasn't improved since the Luxembourg loss. Too many times we have been crying out for subs long before he makes them and invariably he makes wrong ones.
There's no consistency and its starting to feel the good performances are far far outweighed by the bad ones
Well, that's 90 minutes of my life I won't get back. Just to echo what's been said here about how bad that was, especially the first half - the most striking thing was how often we got squeezed in possession by a fairly tame press and forced back to Bazunu - incidentally, having watched Kelleher in the League Cup game, I now see how his superior ability on the ball could make him a better option if we insist on this style of play - he actually presents an option to keep a passing move going, whereas Bazunu is an outlet when we've run out of options, if you get my drift.
I don't even see how that type of football is considered pleasing to watch - I was bored to tears. I'd now be happier if we gave the ball away more regularly just getting it up there and then fighting to get it back - just give it a lash. It's really depressing that we're now accepting a dogfight for a distant third in our qualifying group is the best we can hope for. Barring a miraculous turnaround, this can't go on beyond this campaign - we wasted six of the peak years of Keane, Duff, O'Shea, Dunne, Given, Finnan, Reid etc with managers who just were not up to this level - let's not do it again with the youngsters coming through. We need somebody with solid Championship experience, at least
I like him too. He was our brightest player for a decent spell last year. But I thought he was well off it last night.Quote:
Originally Posted by backstothewall
That'd change with a genuinely creative footballer in Browne's position imho. We had good width last night, but that's all we had and Norway knew it.Quote:
Originally Posted by samhaydenjr
I thought the only reason we had width was because Norway were forcing our wingers out wide! O'Dowda was being isolated, and the supply to Doherty was being blocked, I guessed he had been identified as a danger so the ball was kept away from him
Well surely that only amplifies the absence of a creative player ahead of Molumby and Cullen?
I've seen nothing different from the first couple of games and what we saw last night. Or to be honest most other nights. I'm genuinely interested to understand what others saw that's anyway different, genuinely different, to what we saw last night and previous nights. What's also interesting for those who watch Ireland on a more adhoc basis there's still a sense of " we're good to watch ", " who else could you get ". Strange how some less frequent Irish footballing people think kicking the ball around the back is better to watch
I thought we were worse last night that we have been in a long while. Most of the time under Kenny you can at least see what we're trying to do in terms of neat passing football; we're just not good enough to do it.Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
Last night, Cullen played facing his own defence for most of the time, and the defenders racked up a big number of passes between themselves. Largely useless stuff.
I've also said on here before that I try not to read anything into managers' post-game comments because they're usually about trying to give as little away as possible. But Kenny's post-game comments often seem completely removed from what happened in the game, as Hamann called out last night, and it really doesn't help inspire confidence if the manager can't articulate why we were so flat and instead defends the performance.
It's a tough one to quantify. In other games there was always a sense of urgency or a sense that with the possession, if not clear chances, at least danger was being created. Norway were so comfortable defending the balls into the box that there wasn't even a sense of danger to create some excitement. It was a weird game, Norway played more like you expect the smaller teams to play, very compact, happy to hit on the break but with more quality that the average minnow and we've been completely toothless in those scenarios far too often. The really frustrating thing is that Norway didn't score from a chance created in open play, so there's certainly an argument that the overall system worked ok in many respects, but we conceded two very basic set pieces.Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
At the other end, Obafemi needs either a big man or a creative 10 beside him, to get on the ball and play it in behind for him. Himself and Robinson just didn't work, I'm not sure Obafemi had more than two touches in the first half, we couldn't get the ball near him. I do feel a bit for Kenny in that the three biggest stars from his under 21s, that we had high hopes for in terms of attacking options have all failed to make the impact we needed. Idah, Parrott and Connolly were the players we thought might bridge the Robbie Keane goal scoring chasm but they've all hit issues with injury, form or attitude. Robinson keeps floating around championship teams because he's maddeningly inconsistent, and none of the other options (Hogan, Keane, etc. look like they'll be any better and missed a big chance in this window).
I do believe that the more possession-based game is the way forward. Again, statistically we ended up with more shots, more corners, more possession, all things that should be helping us to win more games. The longer we struggle to create and score the more it looks like Kenny might be finished, the main think I'd look for from another manager would be more dynamic in game management and active use of subs. Smallbone or McGrath might well have offered something more in terms of unlocking Norway if they'd been given a half hour and instead we got 15 minutes of Hendrick. That's the way to lose support quickly (and I wouldn't be as critical of Hendrick in general as many)!
I think that’s a bit of confirmation bias, which is understandable. What we saw last night was a regression back to the Kennyball we saw pre-Anthony Barry. Lots of pointless passing from defender to defender pumping the stats.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
I do too. Kenny may not be the man to deliver it but the mindset/philosophy that we’re an inferior footballing nation who must be direct to be competitive has to stay in the past. And I think we’re far enough into that journey now to think it’s worth continuing. We now have two goalkeepers who can use their feet well (Baz made a bad mistake last night but I still think he’s generally very accurate), three or four CBs who can use the ball and two or three CMs keen to get on the ball. That’s a good foundation and I think there are emerging players who can contribute to a contemporary style of playing too.Quote:
Originally Posted by passinginterest
Despite justified criticism I think there has been a big positive step forward taken since the final days of MON and the worst games of Mick Season 2 (which were against the lesser teams) and I think if nothing else Kenny has integrated several young players who will be the mainstay of the side for a decade. The frustration is that others (Idah, Parrott, Connolly…) have had setbacks of various types and I think opportunities to make further progress have been frustrated by external factors but also very definitely self-inflicted ones.
(PS: did anyone notice a passage of play around 25 mins last night when Doc had got past his man and was in prime position to receive a basic ball between full back and centre back and would almost certainly have been able to shoot or put in a square ball on the deck, but our midfilder (Browne?) saw the run and instead turned back into midfield. It didn't need a player of Odergaard's ability to play such a simple and obvious pass.)