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Hahahahahahaha. Funniest thing i've heard all season.Quote:
Originally Posted by thejollyrodger
Oliy has spent a fortune this season putting together highest paid & most experienced eL squad ever! I'm sure most of that team have several years left in their contracts so don't know how you'll be able to replace.
Besides you won't be in the CL next season.
:D
Basically I hear the club has been run very poorly with no attempt at changing a detiorating squad. I have no idea how Rosenborg budget or spend but I do know Shels severely screwed Hajduk financially who had banked on beating them in their budget.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
I think Rosenborg got a new Manager this season...
Countries with 1 consistent League winner usually do better in Europe as the same team gets chance in CL every season. If the Norwegian league gets more competitive like the Swedish league they'll probably do worse in the CL.
Every goal was a gift but in fairness they deserved to win. If the manager is too stupid to pick people like Joey Ndo then what can you expect? Until he and Hoolahan came on we had nobody in mid field who could get on the ball and pass the thing, who wanted the ball. They changed the match but it was too little too late.
As for Crawley, he's always been sh*t, so no change there.
they were by no means anything special. With the right team and some ambition we could have taken them, no doubt whatsoever.
Really sorry for you Shels guys. When Byrne's goal went in thought a drawbwas on the cards.
Those goals though - for fcuks sake - bad enough missing three centre halves but to commit hari-kiri like that??? What was Crawley playing at???
Still, some of Shels play, particularly in the second half, was enjoyable to watch and Crowe, Baker and Byrne (again) might have scored.
Commisserations lads. :ball:
To be honest, I thought $hels played well, but defensively were a shambles. Up to Delaney's mistake there was a real chance of a result.
Fleming, Ndo and Hoolahan all made a majr impact when they came on - Fair nuff about Hoolahan's fitness, but how was Fleming not on earlier, with that defence?
Shels deserved what they got - 4 stupid errors cost them lastnight and being negative in the first leg also cost them imo as if they had've had a go in tolka they probably would've won.
As for crawley, what a player :rolleyes: - you would expect fleming to take his place asap (but please not til after mondays game against us)
Even if cork or derry win the cup and both come in a euro spot, the third spot will go to the cup runners-up so still no euro footie for shels. (that is, if the IC is gone)Quote:
Originally Posted by Poor Student
In fairness, they clearly put in a better performance then we did, even if it was seriously flawed in certain areas. As always, imo Heary, Hoolahan, stuey are all players who i would be proud to show off in europe. Pity Heary gave up the peno like that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vitruvian Man
Still though, if i were to act like a lot of our detractors post last thursday, then i would take the 4-1 result and claim steaua wiped the floor with Shels :p
Agree on both counts.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosmo
Okay the four goals were absolute píss takes and, except in the case of Crawley, you can't account for that sort of thing but we never had a chance when we weren't willing to go out and do ourselves justice espically in Tolka. Should have attacked them then espically after the first half rather than sit back and let them come on to us. Ndo should have started, how he doesn't start is beyond my understanding and always will be.
Steaua are a fairly decent team but they were never creative in either leg against us, there was no cutting edge there. All goals were handed to them, any sunday league team would have put all four away bar maybe the first which was a great finish. There was no reason for us to sit back so much against them, when Hoolahan and Ndo came on it was like a different team and if anything we were in control, but we lacked the ambition espically in Tolka to do anything about it.
Unless its a Cork v Derry final!Quote:
Originally Posted by fosterdollar
just one comment on Ndo - he did ONE piece of skill when he came on - admittedly a juicy turn (and subsequently fluffed his cross cum shot) - his second and last contribution was to up end a marker that he let free....
its easy to exaggerate his potential like several people here do - he hints at a lot to offer - but rarely delivers in 90 minutes i find
He delivers ALOT more than some of the other clowns in that mid field, espically Ollie Cahill who was hopeless again.
Hate to say I told you so, but Delaney was badly exposed last night and just isnt good enough for Shels.
Between him and crawley they pretty much handed the tie away.
Dont understand why Williams was dropped becasue I cant ever remeber him causing Shels a goal and even if he did he wins Shels more games and points than he loses.
The word scapegoat comes to mind
The most annoying thing about last night is that Shels could and prob should have won. I wouldnt be too harsh on Fenlon and his tactics. If he went and attacked Steaua in either leg which resulted in an early goal for Steaua we would be on his back then too.
There are however a number of glaring mistakes from the two years euro experiences.
One, Jason Byrne is wasted in midfield, the man should be played up front no matter what.
Two, Crawley, Im sure hes a nice lad but he is rubbish, I cant believe after his performances last year that he still held his place this year. If any player at any level attempted the clearance he did last night, he would be dropped. I cant remember his name but the lad who scored the first steaua goal rang rings around him in Tolka and again last night particularly the first goal. Why Fleming wasnt started last night I dont know.
Third, we're getting there, if we can continue this upward trend it is not inconceivable that an EL team will be in the group stages. Ironically despite exiting a round earlier, shels prob had a better chance of making it this year.
All in all its just a shame that two/three terrible defensive errors that would be punished in any division were made by shels last night. Tactically perhaps wasnt the best either but hindsight is a great thing. Heres to Cork City this year and prob next year in the CL :)
We're all experts after the event, but what sticks in the craw about last night's result is that the manner of Shels' collapse was both highly preventable and highly predictable.
In the lead-up to the game, Fenlon repeated his "keep it tight for the first twenty minutes" mantra ad nauseum. Fair enough, Nutsy, but there's more to it than simply telling your players to "keep it tight." You have to realise the doctrine on the field of play. This means obstructing and disrupting your oppponents' lanes of passing (didn't happen), observing basic defensive principles, retaining possession of the ball where possible to offer your defence some relief. And if, for arcane reasons of your own, you've decided to omit the only players at your disposal who are capable of achieving this, at least instruct your forwards to run the channels rather than accepting the ball flat on the half-way line with nowhere to run and no realistic pass to play. This at least ensures that your opponents' back four will think twice before embarking upon cavalier sorties upfield with the ball at their feet.
For all that Fenlon may bemoan the misguided focus of youth development in this country and its failure to produce technically capable players (but would such players flourish in a league where every manager's vision of the ideal footballer is Jim Crawford?), we not only must, but CAN, make better use of the raw material currently available.
We're not asking Fenlon to attack hell for leather. Just set out with a 4-4-2, play their normal game. 5 across the midfield with 1 up front tells you and your opponents you expect them to dominate you and you're just going to soak it up. You deny yourself hugely the possibility of getting something from the game. In the first leg Crowe would often receive the ball 25-30 yards from goal isolated with no options. Possession is lost, Steaua drive forward, Shels win the ball and then it repeats. There's no point in codding himself that he's not sitting back by playing Jason Byrne in midfield. Byrne is not a good all round footballer even, he's a good striker. The attitude adopted is too negative. I don't want some ultra positive attitude. I just want them to play their game as they usually would with two very capable strikers up front.Quote:
Originally Posted by elroy
You're all spot on except the criticism of Delaney is harsh, he was rubbish but he's been outstanding for us so far.
Fenlon got praise last year and deserves a hell of alot of stick this year. There is no reason why we couldn't have beaten Steaua, even with our own limiting tactics we got within a goal of winning! His team selection was wrong, his tactics were wrong and his mentality is wrong.
The annoying thing is that Steaua weren't that great, they were good but they never cut through us. We were denied the chance to do ourselves justice by his own selections and tactics. Certain players just aren't upto it but he seems to be completley blind to this while it's the skillfull players who get dropped like Ndo. His whole mentality is wrong and we can't progress in Europe while that remains the case.
......if Roy Carroll made that air ball mis kick - Europe would be laughing their heads off - the criticism is deserved.....stupidity should not be rewarded or brushed aside with - "ahh thats a bit harsh" "ahh poor crawley" - they committed 4 stupid amateur level mistakes and gave Steau the tie.Quote:
Originally Posted by Slash/ED
No excuses. Just 4 errors.
No I agree he deserves the criticism for his performance but people calling for him to be dropped is a bit harsh, that's his first bad game for us. If he plays like that again then he will be dropped.Quote:
Originally Posted by wws
As for Crawley, he's just sh*t and deserves all the criticism he gets.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pete
No sure about that. The money that Norwegian clubs can afford to pay players is pretty high due to the high cost and standard of living here. The government just announced a 36 billion dollar surplus for the year and Valerenga are playing to pretty decent crowds week in week out. They also have a Setanta style Scandinavian competition running between the top teams in Sweden and Denmark so I think the standard will probably increase a little. Valerenga have a good shot at making group stages this year (brugge I think) and should have the strength and experience from last year to win the league. Held Newcastle to a 1-1 draw here in the UEFA cup and should have won it.
I think a likely scenario is that Valerenga will now become the dominant team in Norway. Their location in Oslo has a bigger fan base and also is more attractive for sponsorship.
No, not Valerenga :eek: If RBK has to let go of the crown, the only team I really would like to see win it is Tromso, but as they've got no chance i'd be happy with Stavanger or Brann or Lyn or anyone but Valerenga... Too much rivalry with Rosenborg so rather see a small team win it. Then Valerenga can't enrichen itself and won't be a serious threat for RBK...
Ack, we'll take the crown back next year to where it belongs: Lerkendal ! :cool:
As for the Steaua-Shels game: gutted about the result, the only possible upside I can see is that I won't have to make any heartbreaking choice between Shels and Rosenborg.
Curses, you've spotted the Pats masterplan to bring Shels down from the inside by getting Eamon Collins to Tolka :DQuote:
Originally Posted by TheOwl
Seriously though, I wonder if you have a point. Collins seriously mucked up Pats, after a half decent first season in charge.
I've often wondered what purpose the little twerp serves. Any time I see him he just jumps up and down going bright red on the touchline. Never seen him do anything or say anything that looked of benefit to anyoneQuote:
Originally Posted by TonyD
I would happily get rid of Collins, I also can't see much of what he adds to the side. If at all possible get an assistant in from the continent who is experienced in the European game and could use that to help us.
now there is a good idea. getting someone in from the continent who has a good knowledge of the various teams in the Champions League qualifier, they way they play etc and the best way to go about playing them. An assistant manager so to speak.
Well one thing is for sure; he is not there to try and calm things down. Absolute nutcase. :D :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Slash/ED
To put things in perspective Longford disgraced Ireland two years running, Shels on the other hand shot themselves in the foot. However losing to the Champions of Romania a club which in previous times won the European Cup(1986) and reached a final(1989) is one thing. Losing a 2-0 lead by 4 goals to a team that came 6th in the Welsh league and were only in Europe cause they lost the Welsh Cup Final is another matter entirely!Quote:
Originally Posted by Vitruvian Man
as in ' a cigarette smuggling heart enrichens the smallest club'?Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerrit
The most annoying thing is that if shels beat steaua they had a fantastic chance against Rosenborg. Although having said that if Rosenborg study the two games against shels it should be easy enough to pick out flaws in steaua. For one they are not very good under set pieces or high balls at the back and their main danger comes from the wings and diagonal ball.
Its a pity because it would finally make lazy arsed sky sports premiership loving 'fans' to sit up and take notice that an Irish team is good enough to make the CL group stages. Until then they dismiss their own league and throw on their EPL team jerseys in the pub. :mad:
Wasn't one of their defenders a third choice? Is that because of long term or short term injuries? Their defence may not be as bad at full strength. Plus that young fella on the left is pretty nifty.Quote:
Originally Posted by elroy
With one of my two clubs out, all my hope rests on the shoulders of Rosenborg... But given our current form and given the fact Steaua didn't look like an easy-to-beat ones, my Champions League season could just as well be over by the end of the month :eek:
Pete what are you on about??Quote:
I think eL sides need to learn that have to try to win home legs. When we sit back with 5 in midfield we are less effective. Cork City were just as guilty as Shels this season but at least had 2 nil lead.
You always try twist anything around to have a go at Shels while saying Cork are so good, :(
You do realise that Shels already played Glentoran at home already in the Champions League? They attacked and scored 4 goals on the night ? You forget that!!
Cork should have done the same and won the home leg. When you get to teams such as Steaua and Depotivo etc you take anything you can get in terms of coefficient. Its picking up points in the early rounds against teams of our own ability that matters.
At least Cork had a 2-0 lead. What does that matter?
It means that could afford to defend as would have to conceed 3 goals to lose. Similar to Shels defensive display at home to Icelanders last year as would win on away goals.Quote:
Originally Posted by higgins
I like coefficients as much as any eL fan but Ricos job was to get to next round.
I have yet to read the thread so my apologies if my points are already posted....
Does anyone know why Fenlon picked Crowe upfront? IMO he offers very little, he is too slow to cause defences problems from long balls, does not take chances when they come his way and cannot create space or dribble past players whereas Jason Byrne can, but instead he is wasted in the centre of the park... Surely Byrne up front (Crowe on the bench) with an attacking midfielder like Ndo/Houlihan/Ryan pushing up would be better than byrne sitting in midfield not doing much with Crowe trying but failing in attack....(and I know that the above trio were lacking fitness etc but surely there's another midfielder Shels could've used like Crawford)
I have to agree, I can't understand people having a go at Cork for loseing 1-0 but ultimately progressing. Not good for the co-efficents but the priority is to progress.Quote:
Originally Posted by pete
If the priority is to progress then Cork winning the home leg would just about mean they will be seeded in the first round next season and therefore draw a team like Vaduz or Carmakers :)
Its not just about getting to the next round.
Managers don't look that far ahead.Quote:
Originally Posted by higgins