I doubt the keeper was faking the injury and later probably hadn't got good sight of Parrott's shot.
Good finish to the game to pin Lithuania to their box for the last 10 mins. It was just a friendly but I think Kenny should be starting as strong a team as is available.
I think the biggest thing we learned tonight is that we ever have to go into a serious game with Hourihane and Browne as the midfield 2 we are in deep trouble and I'd question why it took Kenny so long to change that. I would have done it at half time.
Keane was terrible, looked like a L1 player but because of his goals record he might be work another look down the line.
We made very poor decisions around the box at times, lads were having wild shots instead of picking better option at times.
On positive notes, I still love that we can have so much possession even if we dont always do the right thing with it. So refreshing compared to being outplayed in possession by far inferior teams.
Manning was better than I expected. I dont rate him but he showed some good stuff tonight and may prove me wrong yet.
Collins looks excellent to me. Didnt have a lot to do at the back but he has something about him.
We had more intensity when our better players like Knight and Hendrick were brought in towards the end.
Parrotts goal was brilliant, and he was unlucky with the volley just before. Nice to see a striker look dangerous.
Matt Doherty was super at times, and frustrating at others and Ogbene the same.
It was typical friendly fare for the most part, even with the crowd noise. Great feeling to come away with a win, however we got there.
100%Quote:
Originally Posted by Trequartista20
I wouldn't even waste another squad place on Hourihane after that, Id be looking at others. Made for him, that game and couldn't even deliver dead balls.
will have to rewatch later on as i was out for the game but delighted to see parrott got the winner. great for the kid, hes had a lot of critics over the past 12 months and i was worried when things were souring around xmas at mk dons but hes really drove on since then. plenty more goals to come from him
I'm agreeing with everyone criticizing Browne and Hourihane. Both were very poor. Passing sideways as it represented the easier option. Never a forward pass or bit of penetration. I'm really disappointed with Kenny that it took so long for him to split that pair up. Hendrick showed what we were missing with a bit of urgency and vertical passing and offering angles to Collins and Doherty and Parrott. Browne and Hourihane just collected the ball from Egan and waited for Doherty or Manning to give them an option. Also note how stagnant Hourihane was on the ball. Really frustrating.
Collins looks a player. He coasts along. He wins everything in the air. His tackling is crisp and his passing precise.
Parrott and Knight showed how good they can be for us. They were creating a lot of problems when they came in.
I felt sorry for Ogbene as he missed an energetic presence alongside him. Keane and Robinson were passive. Keane didn't look good enough. But he couldn't even force his way into the game with a bit of energy. Knight offered Ogbene that and compensated for Robinson against Belgium. Tonight Ogbene had a thankless task. But he did fairly well overall.
Parrott looked on it. I text a mate saying if we score he'll do it.
Overall, we dominated and should have won by more and ended up winning. However, if Kenny doesn't learn that a thing or two about what selections and combinations won't work in this system then I'm concerned.
sounds very familiar with hourihane im afraid. still scarred from his performance vs andorraQuote:
Originally Posted by Olé Olé
I suppose overall a typical mid season second fixture in an international window where changes are made, some work and offer options, some don't. Collins, Manning and Parrott came out of it enhanced, others didn't. Main thing is the win, didn't concede, all done with some impressive passing stats also.
Important to get the win and not concede. True. But it is time now to start sorting the good from the bad. Overall team performance was very good against what were weak opposition (although it wasn't so long ago that teams like Lithuania would come to the Aviva and dominate us). Hourihane is the biggest individual casualty from this performance. He simply isn't international class. Was impressed with Manning and Collins and I know it's not too popular an opinion here but I thought Browne showed for the ball all night long. As someone stated earlier though, he needs to find the forward pass instead of always going sideways. Doherty excellent.Quote:
Originally Posted by CraftyToePoke
How many that started tonight would we expect to start in June? I’d say Doherty,Ogbene,Egan and Robinson…
Could Parrott have put himself in ahead of Robinson? Though he was wasteful tonightQuote:
Originally Posted by joey B
More negatives than positives from tonight. Relieved to get the win.
Standout negative was Hourihane he was disgracefully poor. That tame free kick floated into the keepers hands late on (that was spilled) probably summed up perfectly his evening.
I’d still see Robinson starting,Kenny probably seen more from him over his time in charge but Parrot did himself no harm tonight and hopefully he’ll have a good end to the season…Quote:
Originally Posted by Razors left peg
Can’t disagree on Hourihane. Kenny have a start to loyal squad players, Hourihane and Browne in particular. It was probably a last chance to impress and hard to disagree on Hourihane. To an extent I agree with Stu, in that he looked grand in general play, he probably had a 99% pass completion rate, but as has been said it was all so passive and his set pieces were poor. With Molumby, Sykes, Kilkenny and Coventry all coming through that was likely his last chance and I expect we won’t see him in a competitive game again unless there’s an injury crisis. Browne did offer a bit more energy but he does lack a bit of creativity on the ball too. It was a game crying out for a McGrath, Ronan, Byrne type to just play a penetrating ball or two.
Collins did look very solid and made at least one crucial tackle where Robinson gave away a very cheap ball. Robinson looked totally demotivated all night. Ogbene had some great flashes first half but faded a bit as it went on. Manning the better wing back first half but Doherty got more involved second half. Keane looked nervous and I though he improved a bit second half when he came looking for the ball a bit more. Parrott was an improvement and delighted he got the goal. At least we’re starting to have options up front now with Idah, Connolly and Obafemi to add to that squad.
Cullen is pivotal for us, he’s literally the pivot the team depends on now and Hourihane can’t produce it. The biggest worry for me is what happens if he’s not available. I think Coventry is the nearest to a replacement but I don’t think he’s nearly good enough yet either.
Anyone writing Troy Parrott off at twenty years of age, is an idiot, and should be called out as such.. seriously.. he's 20
Harry Kane was playing L1 football at 20.. went through four different clubs on loan before going back to Spurs..
I'm hoping we make it to Germany in 24.. but we're starting to see the makings of a cracking team at home in 28 by the looks of things..
If that bid is England/Ireland only.. both teams will get automatic qualification like Poland/Ukraine did.. could have four years to really build a squad for that
Frustrating at times as we struggled to break them down but stepping away from that it wasn't all that bad I thought. We should beat Lithuania and that starts with keeping a clean sheet. Job done there even if they offered little threat and I thought Collins and Manning looked promising. Collins in particular looks a real prospect. Second step would be dominating possession and we did that. The downside was the final third where we struggled, particularly when Hourihane was involved as many have said. Seems strange to say that when we had the ball in the net 5 times but late goals always make it seem like it was maybe more of a struggle than it was.
The major worry for me, and zero said it earlier, is that we don't have much in midfield or attack outside of our first string. Hopefully someone can step up in a creative role as that game was crying out for it and, as we've all said, we need someone to back up Cullen as well. We need more options and nobody really stepped up bar Parrot and Knight if you don't already count him in the first string.
Just home. It's interesting that they're bringing them out of the tunnel to Ric Flair's music now because...
WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!
The way we won that was a lot of fun in the end. That we won means that all there is to say is that we were dominant throughout.
A year ago we would have found a way to lose that. Tonight we won it at the death.
i'd agree with most on here.
was most apparent the gulf between cullen + hendrick and hourihane + browne. thought hourihane got a little less passive in the last half hour or so, maybe after he scored his goal. i think probably james mccarthy is still the most adequate replacement for cullen, not that he's a great option, just that he's the best of them. i think coventry is still another season and a half from being ready, kilkenny further down the line, connell and johansson further again. i would have liked to have seen knight get some time in hendrick's position, as maybe he's the best option to replace jeff. it's tough because there are midfielders like ronan, taylor, sykes, browne - who are perhaps more suited to being an attacking midfielder in a 3.
back 3 centre halves were all good. Collins is built like Richie Dunne. he's just huge, tall and wide.
i preferred manning on the left of the back 3, as opposed to wing back. was seated on the side he played in the first half and i'm not sure the pace really plays up as much as you'd want it to at wing back. the composure and forward passing was impressive. i'd be more confident of him having a future after tonight. doherty was good.
keane was disappointing, wouldn't write him off yet but he'd go to the back of the queue, behind Parrott and Hogan (and probably Idah and Obafemi by June). can't really argue with ogbene - thought his marker was their best player and put the ball in the net twice. certainly one of our better players. robinson was poor. he'll have days like that, periods like that within games, where he picks the wrong options, gives the ball away poorly etc etc. i think overall with the changes we made, there was a lack of pace when Knight Parrott and Hogan finished the game. Could probably do with another quick player who can play wide: Connolly, Ebosele seem obvious contenders. Thought Knight and Parrott were really good coming off the bench. Hogan didn't do badly, came up a little bit in my estimation, played on the last man well for the most part...
good to get the win, keeps the momentum going...
Think Kenny will have learned a lot from tonight, only thing is most of it will have been negative (still useful).
Great to see Parrott’s delight, that’s what it should mean playing for Ireland. Up to him now to decide where he wants to go with the undoubted ability he has.
Otherwise, disappointing with our weakest in depth. Stacked in certain positions but vulnerable (currently) if we lose starting players in midfield/ attack to injury/ suspension.
Yep. Set Manning away to cross for the first "goal". Scored the second "goal" himself. Didn't make any hospital passes to nearly cost a goal (unlike Browne). Online ratings generally balance "some neat touches and passes" or "Showed his class on a number of occasions" with ****e set pieces (which is fair).Quote:
Originally Posted by CraftyToePoke
So not going to get ahead of Cullen/Hendrick, but equally "the biggest individual casualty from the game", "disgracefully poor", comparisons to the Andorra performance or suggestions that he should never be called up again - all over the top for me.
Who has written Parrott off?Quote:
Originally Posted by Insidetherock
As said above, plenty learnt, just not too much positive!
Hourihane is clearly a very elegant footballer but I find he’s an utterly ineffective one. He just has no lasting influence in a game. His dead balls were poor which is more often than not the case with him. But the contrast between him and Cullen is remarkable. Cullen’s bravery to receive the ball in almost “hospital pass” situations is key to playing out from deep and drawing an opposition press. Hourihane is slower, always wants to receive the ball in space and by then the opposition is set behind the ball.
Browne wasn’t great either and the partnership was poor. It seems he’s at his best arriving late, attacking space but he rarely got to do that.
I’ve been a bit doubtful that Manning can cut it at this level and thought he looked shaky in his few mins against Belgium. But I thought he looked really good last night, one awful switch pass to Doc (which led to a corner) excepted! He also looked good in the back 3.
Keane didn’t impress much.
Ogbene and Robinson were good in parts.
We have some great young defenders.
Hendrick and McClean added some urgency. Doc showed leadership by example. In the absence of a central midfielder conducting things Doc’s willingness to get forward raised the whole tempo I think.
Knight made a big difference. Parrot grew into the game and looked a threat even before his goal.
Great to get a win in the end. Change the midfield and we’re grand. Cullen emerging as a “key man risk” in my opinion.
We just don’t score bland goals anymore do we?
Not sure about Manning. His debut against Bulgaria still colours my opinion of him. But he’s a left-footed, Championship regular which has merit.
Hourihane’s saving grace(s) are those sweeping balls he can make with his left foot and his dead balls deliveries. Absent last night.
Keane couldn’t make the ball stick, struggled to make clean connections when on the ball, and just gave a lost air about him when he’s probably in the form of his career. Mentioned earlier in the thread, but looked a L1 player playing international football. Do we continue to persist with him or move on to exploring other options? I think the latter.
Gavin Cummiskey on Hourihane:
This management have long supported Hourihane, despite a slide into obscurity at Aston Villa, but the 31-year-old’s corner deliveries – the main source of Irish chances in the first half – lacked any threat, never mind accuracy.
So much of the play went through Hourihane for next to no return. He did find the net on 53 minutes, but Robinson was clearly offside and blocking Lithuania goalkeeper Dziugas Bartkus’s view, and in fairness it was his angled ball into the box that fell for Parrott’s winner.
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/soc...jail-1.4839627
(GC must have missed that he's at Sheff U these days)
He’s still on Aston Villa’s books, so that’s probably what he means with the obscurity comment as he’s not going to get another look in at Villa.
On a positive note, not that long ago when we needed either Brady or Hourihane on the pitch for their dead-ball deliveries – just to have the possibility of scoring a goal.
Despite the struggles last night and this is still very much a work-in-progress, it does feel like we have hit our bottom and we’ve turned a corner on a progressively worse momentum we’ve had for the last 20 odd years.
We've had so many years in the last decade, where even friendly games against weak opposition saw us struggle to keep the ball and create anything. This felt different, there's no escaping it was a relatively disappointing result, but in the end a completely deserved win was secured. We had about 70% possession and it always felt like just a matter of time before we scored and there was never a sense of dread that Lithuania would nick a goal (unlike earlier in the Kenny regime when it felt like we were never going to score and it was almost inevitable the opposition would nick something). There was a lack or creativity, no question, but you even see some of the great teams struggle to break down a low block against weaker opposition, it even happens to Liverpool with Salah and Mané from time to time. We don't have the luxury of that level of player unfortunately. I'm glad the result came in the end, because it would have been a shame to kill the bit of momentum that seems to be building. You could see it meant a lot more than an average friendly win to most of the players.
Hopefully Idah can regain fitness and Obafemi and Connolly can keep up their form and force themselves into the squad. There's at least some depth now in the attacking options and we're seeing goals from Ogbene, Robinson and Parrott. I'd like to see Keane again, I know it didn't go well for him, but he's highly thought of and if he maintains his club form and maybe moves up a level, he's got a lot of attributes that would make him a useful option. Outside of Idah he's the only forward we have that could be considered a big unit, even if his style of play is very different.
There's still a lot of work to do, but there's a really solid core to the team now, with great options at centre back and reasonable options at wing back and in the attacking positions. The scary one is the sudden reliance on Cullen and a rejuvenated Hendrick. They fit this formation and style particularly well and the options look very light weight in comparison at the moment.
Couple of things I noticed last night:
There was one point where we committed a lot of men forward, lost the ball, and Lithuania counter-attacked. In 2020, we would have been far too open, and probably left with a three-on-three. Last night, we got back into our defensive shape very quickly and efficiently, and snuffed out the attack.
Likewise, playing out from the back. It's a lot less shaky now. Everyone seems to know where to position themselves, and the off the ball movement is always 'two passes ahead' in order to beat the press. A lot of work has obviously been done on the training pitch to get these things right.
Hourihane is an issue. Tempo is hugely important when you're playing a possession-based game, and he just slows everything down. I think someone here, back in the Glenn Whelan days, compared the #6 role in football to the scrum-half role in rugby; when your main man is taking an age to get the ball under control and then slowly shovelling on the most obvious pass, it affects the entire team - it allows the opposition to set their defence, and makes us easy to defend against. Cullen is a breath of fresh air in this regard, but we need to be a bit ruthless with Hourihane, and find/nurture a replacement. I wouldn't be averse to getting Coventry or Kilkenny into the setup as soon as the U21s' Euro campaign is over.
Browne provides a decent goal threat, but he's just not very good at the basics of being a midfielder.
Delighted for Parrott.
I think you've nailed the Hourihane issue, I'd take it a step further in that he plays the obvious pass and then sees it as job done and steps away. The difference with Cullen is he'll move and look for it back quickly and he'll move again and he'll switch the play so much quicker, he'll also take on a more risky pass into the feet of an attacking player, even under pressure. Hourihane just doesn't do that nearly enough in comparison.Quote:
Originally Posted by Supreme feet
One other notable thing was the crossing, there was a lot of hopefully balls crossed in for the sake of putting the ball in the box. That's great sometimes, but we rarely looked like making anything of it. The few times we worked it to the end line the same cross into the 6 yard / penalty spot was tried every time. Yes it's a good option sometimes and it nearly paid off, but there was a need to maybe compose and pull it back to the edge of the penalty area a few times and whether that was down to Browne and Hourihane not making that run and creating the option, or our players just not getting the heads up I'm not sure. It's something they'll hopefully look at and work on in training.
A late winner always papers over the cracks, but I think its important to focus on the positives. It was a squad development exercise and these days there aren't many non competitive games to rotate. More than 70% possession and while that doesnt win games how often have we been able to say that we kept the ball that much even against so called inferior opposition. Kenny's Dundalk sides always played to the final whistle and scored a lot of late goals so I hope last nights late winner is evidence of that habit - keep the ball against side that sit in, move them about, tire them and chances will happen. There is quite a lot of criticism on social media due to the opposition but people seem to have forgotten that in the past with some of the great Irish teams we found it difficult to break down very defensive 'minnows', drawing with Lichtenstein under Charlton springs to mind when we were ranked in the top ten and i think it was Lichtenstein's first ever point.
https://www.skysports.com/football/r...a/stats/462782
Match stats from Sky Sports give us 78.2% possession, and an 88.5% pass completion rate. Can't find a number of passes listed anywhere for this one, but those figures alone are something we've never seen from an Ireland side previously. Even when playing the likes of Gibraltar in the past, we've never dominated a game as much, while keeping the opponents largely pinned in their own half.
With 18 shots, 10 corners, and all of the decent possession through the game, we really should have been scoring more. But it's continued improvement in key areas.
noticed that myself. however, many of our goal attempts were from outside the box and headers from positions we were never likely to score from.Quote:
Originally Posted by nigel-harps1954
far far too many of our crosses were from the wrong place, ie far too deep.
its obvious we needed a bit more guille around the box and try to get in behind them more. more patience on the crosses was required.
however, it was a much changed Ireland team and they had 11 behind the ball with zero interest in attacking. We have always struggled in such circumstances before.
Parrott is the big positive.... i strongly expect him to be a big player for us within 2 years.
I feel some of the criticism of Hourihane is over the top.
I didn't think he had that bad a game, but even if he did, that's all it was. One bad game doesn't mean we necessarily need to find a replacement for him or anything like that. It just means he wasn't at his best yesterday.
Has he had many good games for us though? Aside from scoring the free kick in the tennis ball game at the Aviva, what else has he done to merit repeated selection?
I wouldn't mind a one off bad game, but it feels like most of his 30 odd caps have been bad games to be honest. I suppose they're all just one off bad games if they're only each looked at individually!
slight change of topic but thought it curious given some criticism of some players.
It's my understanding that LOI fans rank the league somewhere between League 1 and Championship ie 3rd tier ish
Given it was a friendly, and given Kenny's history and positive attitude towards the LOI how was it that the only player who got a call up was the keeper and that was due to injuries etc.
How many players for these 2 games were from the 3rd tier, 4-5? Who would be able to give Will Keane a run for his money given the criticism here? Have the LOI lads not built any form/fitness yet? Are we hoping in the june window, someone could make the cut?
I don't know. I think the criticism is couched in some similar performances and has to be taken in the context of how his performance impacted the team. Receiving the ball and standing there stagnantly before looking up and around and sweeping it out to the most obvious player doesn't help the team. That is why Cullen has become integral. He changes direction, he plays with urgency, he receives the ball in tight spaces, he turns in those tight spaces. I'm not saying he's the best player in the world, Cullen, but when he only have 2 midfield players then we need a lot more from them in terms of progressing the ball. Hendrick also demonstrated the contrast when he came in.Quote:
Originally Posted by backstothewall
Hourihane might be fine for a 4-3-3 or a 3-5-2 but I don't think we can get away with playing him in a 3-4-3.
Are you sure about this? I don't think that fans think that or the league is of that standard but I'm open to being corrected. To give a crude and simple answer, Georgie Kelly is still adjusting to life at Rotherham having been top scorer with Bohs last night. Keane is scoring lots at that level.Quote:
Originally Posted by sparky12345678
Some League of Ireland fans might rank it between League 1 and the Championship but I don't think anyone else does.Quote:
Originally Posted by sparky12345678
The League of Ireland Premier is positioned moreso between League 2 and the National League if we're comparing to the English leagues. Hence the lack of call ups. In the same way that we very occasionally might call up a League 2 player if needed, there may be the same justification for the calling up of a League of Ireland player from time to time. In this case Talbot was called in, but he was more there as a training keeper than anything. With Talbot being in there, I'd suggest the league was over-represented, if anything.
I don’t think there’s very many that rate the LOI at that level,I don’t anyway but maybe there is others that do and they’re entitled to their opinion on that.
I also can’t think of any current LOI player that would be pushing for a call up to the National team either,it’s a very rare occurrence for a reason .
Maybe in time Jack Byrne might perform well in Europe and catch Kennys eye but I wouldn’t expect it tbh…..
I can’t believe there is anyone that ranks the LOI at that level, or even close.Quote:
Originally Posted by sparky12345678
I would say most LOI fans feel we have a few more players probably capable of playing at that level than others may realise but that would be about it.
It is miles off League 1 and not even in the same stratosphere as any part of the Championship.
Quick edit to say that I would agree with the above that there are no LOI players currently warranting significant consideration for the national squad.
The LOI is a mixed bag - some players could play at a good level in England given the chance, others wouldn't even play League football. It's hard to say where the league as a whole stands. A LOI top 3 team vs L1 top 10 would be interesting. I'd say L1.