The new Everton stadium seems to be in, subject to it getting funded and built.Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsujin1979
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The new Everton stadium seems to be in, subject to it getting funded and built.Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsujin1979
In general, pitches can be any dimension you like, so loog as they are between 100 and 130 yards long and between 50 and 100 yards wide (and aren't square).Quote:
Originally Posted by Eirambler
FIFA requires that intenrational pitches must be between 100 and 120 yards long, and 70 to 80 yards wide.
Meanwhile, an ideal pitch dimension of 115 yards by 75 yardfs is now the "gold standard" and virtually all new stadia at professional level conform to that exact size. (I'm not sure exactly who has determined this, FIFA, UEFA or the various professional leagues btw).
However, a derogation is permitted for older grounds where such a dimension cannot be achieved without moving grandstands etc, Anfield being an example of this.
And those ideal dimensions are by now pretty much compulsory for major UEFA and FIFA tournaments like EURO2028.
Most PL pitches are now standardised, but back in the day I believe that Arsene Wenger had a couple of pitches at Arsenal's training ground which could be adjusted depending on the size of the pitch they were due to play on for away games - I daresay all clubs have something like this now.
While at Spurs, the old WHL pitch was smaller than usual at 110 yards by 73 yards. Pochettino's tight pressing game was ideally suited to a smaller pitch, such that in their last season there, Spurs won 17 and drew the other two of their 19 PL games = 53 points.
But playing at Wembley the following season while the new stadium was built, their home record was W13, D4 L2 = 43 points. Yet their away record marginally improved, from 33 points to 34.
Anyhow, getting back to Euro2028, you can be sure that Everton's new stadium will fit the bill, meaning that it will almost certainly be a host stadium. Which will be nice for the EFL... :cool:
given that everton have lost £372m across three seasons, £121m last season being the most recent figure, lost their most significant benefactor in Usmanov due to the invasion of ukraine, and are bookies favourites to go down, you'd have to imagine a stadium is pretty unlikely.
You may be right, but if I had to guess, I'd say it will still go ahead, as follows.Quote:
Originally Posted by elatedscum
While Usmanov, said to be worth nearly $20 bn., is doubtless the key figure behind Everton, he is channeling his football business through his long time business partner Farhad Moshiri, who recently upped his stake in the club to 94%.
Moshiri, who is said to worth a "mere" £2 bn., has not been sanctioned and unless something unknown turns up, it may be that the UK government will be reluctant to do so until the stadium is completed. (It's a big deal for the whole city, not just EFC and Euro2028).
And tbf, they've already made decent progress on the stadium:
https://i2-prod.liverpoolecho.co.uk/..._BMD120422.jpg
While their CEO has been reassuring the fans recently that everything is still on track:
https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/spor...aking-23679739
And even if they got relegated and/or Moshiri had to sell up, I'd guess there'd be no shortage of buyers for a club with EFC's history and potential, for sale at a knock-down price.
Man City's training ground goes further than that, they have pitches for each premier league away ground with the same grass as each pitch, and the same North-South alignmentQuote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
Do they get in all of their opponents fans as well ? ?Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsujin1979
Absolute w@nkers.Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsujin1979
Actually now you mention it, I think that might originally have been a Wenger idea too, presumably followed by M.City when they opened their new Academy/Training ground?Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsujin1979
Im not sure how they would have accounted for Tommy Docherty, mind, when he managed Chelsea.
His team were due to play Barcelona in a European game at the Bridge, but star striker Peter Osgood was one of a few players who were injured and needed a bit more time to recover.
So he called in the local Fire Brigade and got them to flood the pitch, so that the game would have to be delayed by another day or two.
You can read how that one turned out here:
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/p...nt-k8l23225n8c
Tommy Docherty pulled a few stunts in his time. His Man Utd team in the 70’s was mighty entertaining to watch. Two very good wingers and very attacking football. Great watching for a neutral.Quote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
The good news is that £62m isn't close to being enough cash to build what the GAA want. They need more money and will have to come back to the table.Quote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
I honestly think the insistence on building at Casement is being able to call it Casement Park.
If that dept had a unionist minister in 2 weeks time, all it might to take to break the logjam could be something as simple as saying there would be no objection to a stadium on a new site called "New Casement Park" or something like that.
Good sites have come and gone while it has dragged on forever, but Giants Park just off the M2 looks the best available area at the moment.
I was going to post about the flaws in the GAA's "plan" for Casement, but they are so many and various that even a summary would take several pages! Suffice to say, this is a screw-up which will require either that Stormont come up with an unbudgeted £50m (more?) on top of the £62m already allocated, at a time of economic constraints; or, the GAA will have to rein in its plans drastically,Quote:
Originally Posted by backstothewall
And if the history of this whole, sorry saga is any guide, the former can't, while the latter won't, meaning that it will drag on for another decade (minimum)!
I don't think the name itself is any barrier, whether in Andytown or elsewhere, they could call the new stadium whatever the hell they like.Quote:
Originally Posted by backstothewall
No, this is one massive vanity project, conceived as a replacement for a 48k capacity Maze stadium(!), when the GAA was sufficiently flush with funds to add their own £15m to the £62m "free money" from Stormont.
They assumed it would be a shoo-in, completely misjudging the legal, regulatory and community obstacles they would have to overcome - even Antrim GAA is/was unhappy!
Which is bad enough, but considering how much has changed in the decade since, their unwillingness to adjust their plans to something more reasonable (25k capacity?) is actually pretty scandalous (imo).
Even if there is an Executive after the election (uncertain) and even if there is a Unionist minister (uncertain) and even if the extra money is available (uncertain), there is NO WAY that the GAA or anyone else will want to waste another decade or more effectively starting all over again on a new site, even if they were gifted one for free.Quote:
Originally Posted by backstothewall
And as for Giant's Park, if the GAA struggled to overcome local opposition and get PP for a replacement for an already existing stadium in the heart of West Belfast, then they have less than zero chance of building one just over the road from Mount Vernon!
You'd have a better hope of building an Orange Hall in the middle of the Vatican City!
No complaint about building from someone who would have to cross a couple of football pitches, a 10 lane motorway and a railway line to get to would ever be taken seriously. Even in this screwed up place.Quote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
The agreed initial proposals for the site already include a "leisure and sports innovation hub".
The GAA doesn't have the money to build what they want, or anything like it.Quote:
Originally Posted by backstothewall
Nor have they permission to build it, at least yet.
Indeed they haven't even overcome local opposition to their plans, or apathy more widely, even amongst GAA fans.
In fact the only thing they do have after more than a decade of dither and delay is a freehold site - and a site which is their old spiritual home in their spiritual Belfast heartland.
Meaning that in addition to all that, there is no way they will ever splash out to BCC for an expensive lease on a site on the other side of the city.
Which explains why they've never expressed even the slightest interest in Giants Park in all the years since the Council started pitching the site to prospective new tenants.
There is only one spiritual home of Ulster GAA and that's St Tiernach's Park Clones, maybe something to do with the pleasant tranquilising effect of consuming copious pints surrounded by green grassy Drumlins.Quote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
Casement Pk project is mainly a GAA mess so far, why are you so worked about it? It has an extremely limited tangential connection to this thread.
They should just call it Sir Roger Park and then everyone would be happy. Sorted!
*mic drop
I meant the spiritual home of GAA in Belfast/Antrim - another reason not to decamp to somewhere else in the city.Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
On the contrary, if NI is to have any chance of hosting games in 2028, then a rebuilt Casement is the only possibllity (if an increasingly slim one).Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
Which could impact on ROI in turn, since games in Belfast would reduce the chances of Dublin holding games in Croke as well as the AVIVA.
Will there be a United Ireland after Sinn Féin win the Election this week ? (WINK)Quote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
A contrary position to what I expressed about the Casement pk fiasco would surely have to be more positive than 'increasingly slim'? :)Quote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
If the chances of it being built were better than increasingly slim, then perhaps it would have some relevance.
I was expressing a contrary opinion to your assertion that Casement is "tangential" to this thread. This thread relating to Euro2028 and Casement being a possible venue, supported inter alia by the IFA, means it is entirely relevant.Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
When you describe Casement as being a "fiasco", which is by no means certain to be built (by 2028, at any rate!), then you'll get no argument from me. But while related, that is a separate point.Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
I personally think something will be built at Casement - the money is there and has to be spent - while the GAA (and various politicians) have invested too much of their reputation for it not to go ahead
Meaning the real questions are when, and in what form, both of which could well scupper any chance of making 2028 in time.
The appeal against Casement's redevelopment has been rejected: https://www.rte.ie/sport/football/20...eal-dismissed/
Something about that reminds me of the famous Dustin Hoffman/Laurence Olivier story from when the were making Marathon Man. Hoffman’s character was being tortured so to prepare he stayed up all night, and went running to get out of breath etc. Olivier said to him “Why don’t you try acting ? Its much easier.”Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsujin1979
Well to be honest Scotland can eat a d!ck as far as I?m concerned, if they got it over us they wouldn?t show us sympathy so I?m hardly going to neither should others!Quote:
Originally Posted by JR89
True they can offer 3 bigger stadiums but how many of them have hosted big UEFA final games? Maybe Scotland?s NT stadium but that?s it really.
Will the UK be capable of co-hosting a tournament with us? Seems their precious union is imploding ...
Bid delivered to UEFA, includes Croke Park and the Aviva for Ireland and Casement Park for the North: https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2022...stadia-listed/
The initial list of 14 stadiums will be reduced to ten eventually.
Cost estimated at €135mm with benefits estimated at €361mm and 2,600 new jobs. https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2022...6158-euro-bid/
History shows that financial benefits are almost always overestimated but there are very often "soft" benefits which are hard to measure. If I was close to government I'd be asking that the tax take on these benefits be invested directly into Irish football and not necessarily at grass roots. Let's say the tax take is €100mm: that'd go a long way towards stadium & facilities upgrades across all LOI grounds, which itself will create jobs and generate tax. Let's use this opportunity to create an actual football industry in the country.
Would assume Croke Park was included in case Casement is a no go. Use two in Dublin if Belfast isn't used.
If Qatar can host a 32 x team World Cup, then London alone could host a 24 x team Euro's - 7 x PL clubs + Wembley + Twickenham, in a city of 10 million people which receives over 20 million tourists annually, via its 5 x international airports and the world's most extensive urban, suburban and national transport system outside of Tokyo.Quote:
Originally Posted by ifk101
Fact is, while the English FA would love to host it on its own, and could easily do so, they also know that if the bid is to have the best chance of succeeding, the other four Associations' votes/influence will greatly help their case.
And of the four, the FAI/ROI is especially important, since it gives more of a truly "international" feel to the bid, as well as being at least as successful in qualifying for finals as NI, Scotland and Wales over the last quarter century..
Which is why Dublin is getting two stadia, while better-known footballing cities like Manchester or Liverpool may have to make do with one each.
Oh wait, having just typed all that, I realise you were making a Political point, not a Footballing ome.
Sorry.
Doubt itt - see my post above.Quote:
Originally Posted by JR89
I'd be pretty certain that should Casement not be built in time - and I'd be very surprised indeed if it were- then England will get that slot.
I mean, with 4 slots allocated to Dublin/Glasgow/Cardiff as it is, then the remaining 6 slots for England would be very scant "reward", never mind if reduced to 5 with the inclusion of Casement.
I'd say if there's a doubt over Croke, it would be because the GAA weren't prepared to make the necessary accomodations to UEFA/soccer; and/or they couldn't attract the necessary support, including financial, from the Dublin government.
And re those last two, if the money is right, then the GAA will welcome in the 'Garrison Game', while I'd also be pretty confident that Dublin would provide the necessary support (unless someone better qualified than me tells me otherwise).
A multi-million benefit figure ending in a 1 feels an over-sell – can a projected benefit calculator be so accurate given the undoubted uncertainty in forecasting? And from reading the article, the €135m cost is primarily earmarked for the upgrading of Croke Park which has no long-term benefit for the country’s football infrastructure.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
And whatever about giving the GAA €135m for a stadium upgrade and the merits of hosting this in the first place, would it not be wiser, from a national benefit perspective and geographical spread, to spend that money on upgrading a stadium outside Dublin?
Anyways .....
Quote:
Originally Posted by JR89
Looking at the list of 14 stadiums to be 10, Casement is a non-runner – it’s the only stadium of the 14 that is not built and it is being built to GAA specs and therefore needing an immediate upgrade if built to host the tournament, don’t see Manchester getting two stadiums (Old Trafford needs upgrading?) or London getting three stadiums, and it’s either Newcastle or Sunderland not both giving their proximity. (And is the Everton stadium fully financed/ has iffy financing?) That’s leaves Dublin with a high likelihood of two hosting venues imo, all the more so given this €135million figure being floated around for Croke Park's upgrading.Quote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
I hadn't realised the bulk of the 135 million was for Croker. That'd be madness.
Edit: having read the article in full I'm not sure where it says that though.
Re.Casement, it might just be that come April (14 cut down to 10), it will be included as one of the 10, but with an asterisk beside it. That is, there will need to be a deliverable commitment by a certain date, otherwise that slot reverts to England, which has several ready-made stadia which could be made available at short notice.Quote:
Originally Posted by ifk101
As for whether it can meet that commitment must be extremely doubtful, for a whole variety of reasons too complex to go into here.
In which case, I would hope that the IFA had a Plan B, namely that if NI cant host Group games at Casement, then we should get a shiny new National Training Centre as our part of the Euro handout.
Belfast could then be used as a Training base for one of the teams playing in Dublin, while leaving behind a much better long term legacy for the game in NI, than 4 or 5 games at Casement, after which everyone will go home.
While a by-product of such a plan would be that there would be less objection to Dublin getting both Croke and Aviva if those were the only two Euro stadia on ther island
I think it's fairly clear what the 10 final stadiums will be - other than working out which Manchester stadium stays in and which one drops out. Sunderland, most likely London Stadium and Casement (short of a miracle) are odds on to drop out. Possibly Casement might just stay in as a provisional 11th stadium just in case the almost impossible somehow happens and it gets done in time.
So then the question is who gets the second automatic qualification spot? Is two stadiums + a need for an Irish qualifier for the sake of the success of the tournament on the island + having a sovereign government backing the bid enough to swing it for Ireland? On the face of it it should be, but no doubt the Welsh, Scottish and Northern Irish will try to affect that outcome.
Yep, already half built, due to open sometime in 2024 and I'n sure the financing is all in place, thanks to their billionaire owner:Quote:
Originally Posted by ifk101
https://youtu.be/J1aYVxre72o
Being so much more modern, and with the 53k capacity possibly preferable to Anfield's redeveloped 61k, it may even get the nod - who knows?
Anfield can't be involved because the playing field is too small. The new Everton stadium will definitely be one of the 10.
Crikey! You're quite right.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eirambler
I somehow had imagined Anfield was in the running, but looking again at the 14 nominees, its not there. So yes, Everton should be a shoo in.
Everton’s stadium is less than 50/50 to be built. They started building without funding. They’re in financial dire straights and they need £500m to complete. They’ve lost all the usmanov cash. And it’s not outlandish to think they could be relegated
https://www.theguardian.com/business...ley-moore-dock (stadium issues)
https://www.theguardian.com/football...lubs-financing (general finance issues)
From what I've read Old Trafford has been in a bit of a state for a while now, and efforts to improve the place have stalled. In a choice between there and the Etihad it'll be an easy decision, even if one city is allowed two stadiums.
Can’t understand how Anfield which is one of the most iconic stadiums in the world isn’t deemed suitable, when it has hosted champions league semi finals down the year. Not a Liverpool fan, but just very strange.
Surely, the fairest thing would be that England qualify automatically as hosts and the four others compete for one place, with the remaining three then going into qualification as usual. On paper, we might be decent by then but who knows.
The Scots and Welsh won’t go with us qualifying automatically and the North won’t either imo. To be fair, I would be a bit ****ed off if it was England and say Scotland getting the automatic spots so can’t really blame others for kicking up a ****storm here. It isn’t like we are giving 3 or 4 stadiums.
Hilarious that Saudi is after wc 2030 now - imagine if they get it ahead of the South Americans and I think Spain/Portugal - genuinely could see a breakaway from UEFA and Comebol if that happens.
A better way to deal with the qualification issue might be to reserve two qualification spaces for non-qualified hosts. So make everyone (including England) play the qualifiers. But then hold two spaces for any host nations that don't qualify automatically.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bungle
So, taking Euro 2020 as an example of how Euro 2028 might work, England, Wales and Scotland qualified on merit for the finals so they don't need to be allocated a host space. That leaves the two host spaces free for the two teams that didn't qualify on merit - which in that case was Ireland and NI. That way everyone might get in. Obviously if fewer than three of the teams don't qualify automatically someone still has to miss out, but that's just the way of it, the worst performing team in qualifying would then have to miss out unfortunately. Just need to make sure it's not us (i.e. make sure Stephen Kenny is long gone by then!).
Having said that I prefer the route where we are just given a qualification spot, but generally nice things don't happen to us so I won't hold my breath.