Mandroiu obviously wouldn't be in the squad if everyone was fit but he has a lot of potential so he's worth Kenny having a look at. I don't really get the begrudgery.
Mandroiu obviously wouldn't be in the squad if everyone was fit but he has a lot of potential so he's worth Kenny having a look at. I don't really get the begrudgery.
The thing is, the last time we had this discussion, I cited a FIFPro survey of LoI players which showed that more than half had income from a second job (https://www.the42.ie/league-of-irela...09735-Nov2016/), while you backed your view up by saying you watched the games.Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
I'm all for having my mind changed by relevant facts, but you didn't have any and still don't.
What begrudgery? I see only apathy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
Well I mean ask the clubs - you don't have to rely on reports from five years ago if you don't want to. Rovers, Dundalk, Pats, Sligo, Waterford and Derry are all full-time - their players don't have jobs outside football and it's all they do. Bohs and Harps have some players who are completely full time and some who aren't, and Longford and Drogs are a mix as well. Cork and Shels being relegated took two full-time teams out of the league. Like I just don't know why you're so set on this part-time thing when it's clearly not true.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
I mean saying a guy is one of the worst to play for Ireland seems not exactly apathetic to me but I suppose we all have our opinions.Quote:
Originally Posted by John83
Have you a citation on that?Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
You saying "It's clearly not true" isn't a source I'd trust over the players themselves telling FIFPro that the majority rely on income outside football.
What's changed in the LoI between 2015 and 2021 that you're happy to dismiss FIFPro? If anything, there's less money now than then as there's more underage teams drawing funding away from first teams.
Is it not potentially a factual view?Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
I don't think anyone's begrudging the guy - best of luck to him - but he's clearly one of the weakest players we've ever called up. Byrne stood out as the best player in the LoI by a distance and was at best a squad player for the national team. Mandriou is a step below that again.
Interestingly you seem to have a different spin when discussing Colm Whelan getting called up to the 21s. A bit more hope in your tone there.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
Not sure what different spin you mean? I was very clear in noting (twice) that I was watching him play in the LoI First Division, and that the 21s was a big step up.
And it's a big step up for Mandroiu but riding in behind someone saying he might be factually the worst player to play a game for Ireland before he's kicked a ball is a different take then "here's his stats, he's good, let's see if he can step up" which I hope is a fair summary of your take on Whelans call up?
He's in a training camp as backup to Jamie McGrath most likely, not being made captain for a qualifier. Jamie McGrath who incidentally may not be at the level required either long term. But we are taking a look at a few lads who have something different. It's what these camps are for.
Still not sure I'm following your argument tbh.
LoI players have played at 21s level before. Quite regularly in fact; there's a few of them in the current squad. The gap between 21s and seniors is huge. Underage teams regularly have players who are effectively padding because you know 80% (or whatever high figure it is) of them won't make a career out of the game, partly because the pool of available players is so much smaller.
Also by "he's good", you mean to say "he's good at LoI First Division level", which is what I posted. I think it's an important distinction.
I don't think it's unreasonable to describe Mandriou as one of the weakest players ever to be named in a national squad. It mightn't be a nice thing to say, but it's probably factual. I can't think of too many I'd have below him. It's more a reflection on the national squad rather than Mandriou himself, as I'm sure he'd acknowledge.
I'm sure he's somewhere nodding in agreement at this right now ;):DQuote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
Joe Lapira.
Yup; will happily grant you that one.Quote:
Originally Posted by ontheotherhand
And I'll grant you I was surprised to see Mandroiu's name in there but at the end of the day, for me, it's a training camp and he is a player who might be able to step up so calling him the worst player to get in a squad is a bit premature. Kenny wants to bring players through for the future so who else is there around this age? I also agree with you that 21s football is very different to senior football and Whelan's call up is a different story.
Overall I can't think of many who are available who play in the 10 and I think Danny might actually be able to step up. It might suit him to be playing with better players around him. He was at his best for Rovers this season when he could just focus on linking up play in the final third and getting into dangerous positions. He's faded now that he is being asked to play central midfield and drop a bit deeper. It often looks like he could do a bit more with some more intelligent runners around him. Sure we will see.
Joe O’CearuillQuote:
Originally Posted by ontheotherhand
Staines Town legend.Quote:
Originally Posted by elatedscum
Quote:
Originally Posted by ontheotherhand
Joe Gamble?Quote:
Originally Posted by elatedscum
All worth a punt at the time...Quote:
Originally Posted by elatedscum
As for Joe Murphy...Quote:
Originally Posted by ontheotherhand
Worst player Ive seen with multiple caps in my time watching Ireland is probably Conor Sammon
Too much Negativity, Posters.
If a Fella comes in and does his best that is all we can ask.
Which is all fair, but there's still nothing wrong with being concerned about this indication of our lack of strength in depth.Quote:
Originally Posted by ontheotherhand
Gotta call a spade a spade here
To be fair, if you hadn't being backing up the over the top "worst player ever" post and had instead said that his call up was a sign of our lack of depth then I'd have agreed. It's where we are l.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
We had a similar conversation around bazunu. We are in a position where we need to bring on players with potential. That's why I'm open to lads like that playing. Our lack of strength in depth won't be helped by writing off players who are being blooded.
I'd be open to criticizing the players in and around the squad who have had multiple years worth of chances to do a job and failed though! There's no shortage.
If Mandriou can do what Jamie McGrath has done then this call up early in his career will look better. McGrath has excelled with St Mirren and is rightly called up. If he was called up while he was playing with Dundalk I wouldnt have agreed with the call up.
Mandriou could have a super rest of season and get himself a good move abroad. If he does, then he could go on to have a decent international career, but as it stands right now the LOI isnt strong enough for players to play regularly for Ireland while staying in the league. Its fine at U21 level because playing mens football probably benefits them compared to lads still in youth teams. Hopefully the league grows and it becomes viable to stay long term and play internationally, but we are far from that yet.
Richie Towell is signing for Rovers soon and he will most likely become best player in the league instantly, like he was before. But we've seen that he was pretty average in the English Leagues. I've said before that if Hourihane played there he would be sensational.
I dont think Im being negative about Mandrious call up, just that it doesnt excite me right now. He is definitely one of best players in the league, I just dont think that means much in International football
Well, at the time I was disagreeing with Charlie over a couple of things, one of which was that the view of Mandriou as one of the worst players we've called up was simply "begrudgery". I think - and still do think - it's a valid view to hold. That's the context of my original comment.Quote:
Originally Posted by ontheotherhand
Hourihane has only started to do well recently at Championship level though wouldn't you say? For what it's worth, Towell would've been playing Championship level with Rotherham if he hadn't decided to make more money at Salford. Completely remains to be seen what level Towell is at now. He was a standout physical specimen when he dominated for Dundalk but the league has caught up on that front now. Forrester may also have something to say about who the leagues best player is.Quote:
Originally Posted by Razors left peg
Bringing Mandroiu in now is the same as bringing in Parrot or Byrne or any number of other young players we've exposed to the national side during training camps to see how they gel etc. As you say it could be a great move or it could amount to nothing. It's fairly low risk.
To switch things up a bit as we all seem to be saying roughly the same thing but in different ways - who else was an option in the 10 role? We've looked bereft of ideas and creativity playing lads out of position there so far. I can't think of another option in that role who is available. I'd like to have a look at how we play with a natural 10 myself. Sometimes it's better to have someone who knows the role than an overall better player playing where he doesn't feel comfortable e.g. Matt Doherty was top quality at Wolves at RWB but has been poor for Ireland and Spurs in a more traditional RB role. I'd rather Cyrus Christie over Doherty based on form for Ireland but I know who the better overall player is.
Where is Ronan playing in Switzerland ? He's playing plenty but no idea where.Quote:
Originally Posted by ontheotherhand
He'd be on a list along with Byrne of players I'd like to see given a chance in that role but he broke his foot.Quote:
Originally Posted by CraftyToePoke
That's for the nativity play in senior infantsQuote:
Originally Posted by seanfhear
This is our country we are talking about
Defo worst competitively capped playerQuote:
Originally Posted by Razors left peg
No matter who you are ~ You can only do your best.
& Conor Grant, is he a 10 ?Quote:
Originally Posted by ontheotherhand
Brian Barry Murphy going on about him here in a big way, saying he's comparable to Wes at that age and feels he will go on and play for Ireland
- https://www.thestar.co.uk/sport/foot...ove-on-3250157
What's changed is that more clubs are full-time. Why do you find it so hard to believe? I mean I don't know if FIFPro have asked since - do you know?Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
I didn't name any of names of potentially worse players for a reason, mainly because many of the players could well see it themselves. He's got his call-up now and I find the reaction bizarre. Somehow I get the impression if he was playing for another LOI club, let alone Bolton Wanderers or Newport County, the reaction would be a bit different.Quote:
Originally Posted by seanfhear
See the thing is you've still not given any sort of reason why I should believe you though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
A FIFPro survey of the players in the league versus a random punter on the internet. Do you not see that the actual evidence will win out every time?
As I've said, I'm all for having my mind changed here. But "Cos I said so" doesn't cut it
To be fair, there's been a few comments about Ogbene and Horgan being called up, and the omission of Scully and ShodipoQuote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
And there was a discussion as to whether Bazunu/Travers (both in the relegation zone in the third tier) were the capped players at the lowest clubs ever as well.
The idea that this is a Rovers bias is as fanciful as the idea we should believe a random internet poster on LoI finances over the players themselves
And there were no issues with the club when Jack Byrne was capped
Let it go.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
Surveys are notoriously inaccurate. There's no obligation to be truthful in responses, no penalty for not - everything is conducted anonymously. You don't know who responded to the survey. For example, is the First Division over-represented in the sample?
A survey is a random sampling of anonymous responses that may or may not be accurate. The opinion of a random punter on the internet if you will.
Is Mandroiu full time or part time btw? If he is part time, maybe we can bracket him into a worst ever categorisation.
As I say, I'm more than happy to be swayed by a valid counter-argument. But "I said so" isn't one. And neither is suggesting that the FIFPro survey is as flawed as you suggest. It could be the case, but that claim needs some sort of evidence to back it up. Without any evidence, I'm happy to believe the (quite reasonable-sounding) results of the survey.