2022 FIFA World Cup

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Originally Posted by SkStu

The counter to your counter might be just that - - in Canada (not sure about Ireland) it cannot be said to be systemic - - there are protections, there are processes, there are fines and penalties for claims supression, there is healthy workplace injury compensation. The violations are the exception and usually based on indivdual employers vs. at the industry or broader levels. I think that is significantly different from Qatar where, from the interviews that are out there, the state and others are in complete denial that there are ANY deaths at work or ANY abuses of immigrant rights in general.

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This is probably worth a split thread (in CA maybe?) while we watch another fun upset, but I do agree with that. Of course, you look at the Bulgarians being flown in during covid to pick strawberries (specialist labour my hole) and I don't think they count as direct employees so I'm not sure how much protection they have. I don't think they get minimum wage for example. I absolutely agree that what happens in Qatar is a step or four above here. But we're not blameless.

And of course there's never complaints when Qatar Airways sponsor things or when there's golf in Dubai (which has a similar mindset re migrant labour, as I think Simon Reeve has highlighted on one of his trips)

Hamann does not look healthy today

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

This is probably worth a split thread (in CA maybe?) while we watch another fun upset, but I do agree with that. Of course, you look at the Bulgarians being flown in during covid to pick strawberries (specialist labour my hole) and I don't think they count as direct employees so I'm not sure how much protection they have. I don't think they get minimum wage for example. I absolutely agree that what happens in Qatar is a step or four above here. But we're not blameless.

And of course there's never complaints when Qatar Airways sponsor things or when there's golf in Dubai (which has a similar mindset re migrant labour, as I think Simon Reeve has highlighted on one of his trips)

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Let's say you're a newly qualified Irish nurse/doctor/teacher or whatever with no chance of getting a deposit for a flat in Dublin. You get offered a good job in Qatar, Dubai or Abu Dhabi. More money than you'd earn at home and tax free. Do you rule it out on moral grounds or think it's worth doing for a few years? (Ignoring that it might even be fun and there's a vibrant ex-pat community etc...)

I'm not blaming the Bulgarians for taking the jobs though - I'm blaming big companies trying to save money by flying in cheap labour they can take advantage of more easily.

If we're going to try build a more sustainable society and reduce our carbon emissions in line with all known major warnings, then yes, I absolutely think that we should pay a little bit more for meat or fruit and create local careers rather than fly people half-way around the world to work and live in crap conditions to bump up the corporate bottom line.

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

If we're going to try build a more sustainable society and reduce our carbon emissions in line with all known major warnings, then yes, I absolutely think that we should pay a little bit more for meat or fruit and create local careers rather than fly people half-way around the world to work and live in crap conditions to bump up the corporate bottom line.

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Isn't that kind of happening already? Not necessarily for ESG reasons but for very definite geo-political and domestic political reasons we're reducing our reliance on Chinese and 3rd World labour. In the developed world labour's share of profits has been shrinking for a generation and it's high time this was reversed. The current bout of global inflation is partially due to this reversal. Every generation or so the economic balance of power pendulum swings between labour and capital. Right now it's swinging back towards labour.

I don't think so. Yeah, you hear a lot of talk about ESG looking into supply lines but seen very little real action. I was in at Dublin Zoo at the weekend for example and there was a biodiversity exhibit (Wild Lights) which constantly referenced shopping local and so on to reduce carbon - but everything in the shop was made in China. There was an article giving out about England's World Cup kit (and replicas) being made in Thailand by workers on $1/hour (but the kit is £115).

Plus many companies actively recruit in Eastern Europe or beyond because they want to drive down base wages (Musgraves recruiting in Poland/Croatia being a relatively recent example - they don't want to pay local wages because all they care about is the bottom line). Or office cleaners - again, all cheap import labour in the last 10 years or so.

And of course while we think we're being great and diverse and multi-cultural and inclusive, we don't consider the brain drain impact on those countries, hamstringing their economic development in the process.

There's a lot of hot air about stuff like that but very little action because if we're honest, we like cheap meat and strawberries and reduced cleaning budgets. And that's as far as we can see really.

Yeah, I was saying it's less to do with ESG and more to do with reducing reliance on China etc. It's happening in certain goods. But across the board pay conditions have been under scrutiny more than in a long time.

Yeah, fair enough on ESG alright; I mis-read that bit. There's time for that to have impact yet, but it's a lot of greenwashing at present so far as I can see.

We're looking to reduce reliance on Russian gas and look how that's going - over to the Saudis and licking them up! Out of the frying pan and into the fire.

I think we're addicted to cheap labour (and energy) and I would be surprised if that's going to change much in reality. But the flip side is I think it has to if we're at all serious about greater global equality, carbon reduction, sustainability, etc. (Which we're not - the West, for want of a better term, is serious about making money for itself and that's it)

I think we've gone off on quite a tangent though - as Spain are tearing Costa Rice apart; 4-0 after 55 minutes and the poor Costa Ricans have to face an enthusiastic Japan and a possibly desperate Germany still - but I think we're in rough agreement that if he who is without sin can cast the first stone, then we shouldn't be throwing it at Qatar, even if we are clearly better in some areas than them?

Some great points being mare re the Qatar situation ~ ~ Both Pro and Against ~ ~ Thanks Posters.

Gavi is ridiculous,18 years old….

Gavi scored a Roy Keane kind or goal

RTE sum up tiki-taka brilliantly by referring to Spain's manner of playing as "soul destroying movement" then moments later declare the fourth goal " a joy to watch".

cawley is a woeful pundit/co-comm. that game was a hard listen

I think he's fine myself, it's just his delivery isn't great. He doesn't really seem to have a feel for how to project himself properly and sounds nervous at times.

Canada are well up for this. Reminds me of the USA/Wales game in that we have a young team running rings around the older, but I'd say the more experienced side will settle into it eventually. Shame the penalty was saved, that would really have made it interesting.

Not sure how Canada weren’t given a second penalty on the VAR review. Pretty unlucky to be behind. The Canadian system strikes me as being what Stephen Kenny wanted his Ireland team to be. High tempo, high press and brave enough to really commit to it.

The couple of times Belgium did break the press they had Canada in trouble but they either fluffed it or the defence recovered well. Makes it all the more galling for Canada that the goal they conceded was a long straight punt down the middle.

Belgium distinctly unimpressive in this game,compared to the likes of Spain and France they’re miles off it….

Is it just me or are Belgium much worse since Anthony Barry joined the set up? ?

I thought Canada were wonderful to watch, and not just in a plucky underdog way. Really well structured side, moved at pace, had more than one plan of attack...Herdman in for Ireland.

Canada were BRILLIANT!! Lots to be hopeful for with what looks like a below par Croatia (complicates my home life :)) and Morocco...

for anyone stuck in work, you can listen to the BBC Radio 5 Live commentary on the BBC Sounds App in Ireland, not sure about the rest of the world
Ususally work from home, but I'm in the office today listening to Switzerland - Cameroon

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Originally Posted by joey B

Gavi is ridiculous,18 years old….

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And Pedri (19) alongside him and Torres (22) up front - plus six more players 22 or younger in their squad, all at top La Liga sides. Kind of puts our golden generation in context! If they don't win this year, they're surely already early favourites for 2026.

That's not fair. Aaron Connolly is somewhere in Venice.

Swiss 1 up.

Portugal v Ghana has been a fun game, second half more so. Looking forward to Brazil v Serbia too, I think that will be a bit of a battle.

Nearly an all time World Cup moment there,keeper rolls it out,Ghanaian sneaks in from the goal mouth and slips before he can turn and score,sick!

And another great WC moment - Richarlison with a proper Brazilian goal to extend their lead against Serbia. They're looking decent too.

The tournament has been a bit hit and miss so far - 4 0-0s, plus Switzerland being Switzerland - but it's more hit than miss and some upsets in the first round have teed up the second round of games nicely.

And they've brought Gabriel Jesus off the bench now. And Firmino didn't make the 26-man squad.

Serious strength in depth too.

Brazil just brought 200 million pounds worth of player of the bench,unfair just!

Such a great Brazilian goal. Such a shame it was Richarlison. On evidence of Premier League I'd say he's one of the poorest Brazilian forwards in my lifetime. Literally seconds before his first goal I was telling pals in a WhatsApp chat he was a waste of space out there and lucky to be in the squad :) But he looks at home in that side tbf. I thought Brazil looked even better after their subs.

It was a a good win. Serbia could have nicked a goal. Brazil defended set pieces well and kept their discipline at 0-0 waiting for a breakthrough, believing their chance would come if they cranked it up a notch. It was a great watch I thought.

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

And another great WC moment - Richarlison with a proper Brazilian goal to extend their lead against Serbia. They're looking decent too.

The tournament has been a bit hit and miss so far - 4 0-0s, plus Switzerland being Switzerland - but it's more hit than miss and some upsets in the first round have teed up the second round of games nicely.

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I think some have been good 0-0s though. I always try and put myself in the shoes of a fan of one of those teams, look at the game through that lens, as if it was us playing. Would you enjoy the 0-0 if it kept you in contention and set up a big game next time out? Almost certainly. And a few have been good tactical battles too imho. On a standalone basis the games might be dull but in the wider context they're interesting.

You do like a good 0-0 Stutts! :)

That said, this one - Wales v Iran - is a cracker of a game.

Crunching tackle from Hennessy ten yards outside the box and how the ref needed VAR to send him off I've no idea. Iran much improved from the team that lost to England - but can't see Wales giving England much resistance either, derby or no. Bale is a passenger here.

Kenny Cunningham thinks Hennessy’s red card was only worthy of a yellow :confused:

I think it was the reddest red card I've ever seen.

Still, good to see Hennessy adopting local customs and traditions by trying to behead an opponent.

Iran were great from the start. Either they just played rubbish against England or England are worryingly good.

Or the Welsh are worryingly bad. Boomshalaka is probably on the Welsh equivalent of foot.ie losing his/ her rag at Rob Page.

Attendances at 94% capacity apparently.

I didn't know Comical Ali had taken up a job with FIFA.

Ecuador very impressive here,should be ahead…..

If we beat Qatar 4-0 and Ecuador beat Qatar 2-0 and Ecuador drew with Holland, then that means we beat Holland 2-0. Thats how football works, right?

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Originally Posted by SkStu

If we beat Qatar 4-0 and Ecuador beat Qatar 2-0 and Ecuador drew with Holland, then that means we beat Holland 2-0. Thats how football works, right?

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That's the tried and tested way yes

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

Iran were great from the start. Either they just played rubbish against England or England are worryingly good.

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We good, we good.

Sluggish England tonight. A lack of urgency that turned into sloppiness a few times, and they could have been punished.

Love the way USA, Canada and Iran are playing - play at pace and just having a go whenever possible. It's great to watch, and most teams are so much more defensively organised these days, even the traditionally weaker ones, that they're not going to take a hammering by doing so.