Drogs v UCD 840 or something close(Tweet seems to have disappeared)
Wexford v Galway 218 https://twitter.com/WexfordFC/status...59476429549575
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Drogs v UCD 840 or something close(Tweet seems to have disappeared)
Wexford v Galway 218 https://twitter.com/WexfordFC/status...59476429549575
2,385 in The Showgrounds
Drogs seem to have decent team this year , will their price structure hurt their crowds ?Quote:
Originally Posted by ToberonaTornado
Adult online price is €13 gate price is €15.Quote:
Originally Posted by D24Saint
Do you think it's too low or too high?
my mistake I thought I saw someone on here complaining about their prices so assumed they still charged their old premier division fees.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ezeikial
€13 into a shed with no seats (I'm talking about away end) and a wall to pish against for the jack's. Would you say 13 euro is good valueQuote:
Originally Posted by Ezeikial
The ground is poor, but I doubt if reduced prices would have much impact on attendances.Quote:
Originally Posted by outspoken
Almost 20 quid into a stand that is barely much higher than pitch level, maybe you're right and the same amount would turn up at €15 but when you see it's only a tenner into a ground like Longford it's hard to argue Drogheda are offering any sort of valueQuote:
Originally Posted by Ezeikial
I'm not suggesting it is value (although if I have always willingly paid €15 in to the away end when Dundalk play there, is that a contradiction of some sort?).Quote:
Originally Posted by outspoken
The original question I responded to was about the price structure influencing crowds - I doubt if it has much impact in Drogheda's case.
First update of the season, brought to you by COVID-19.
PREMIER DIVISION
Bohs - 3,333 (2,878; 2,148; 2,006; 1,627; 1,724; 1,395; 1,597; 1,496; 1,488)
Cork - 3,164 (2,505; 4,245; 4,559; 2,533; 3,263; 3,777; 1,965; 2,786; 2,128 FD)
Derry - 3,200 (2,878; 2,297; 1,517; 1,563; 1,124; 1,106; 1,446; 1,460; 2,135)
Dundalk - 2,700 (2,775; 2,738; 2,674; 2,738; 3,158; 2,534; 1,997; 949; 1,355)
Harps - 1,910 (1,153; 708 FD; 1,202; 1,216; 784 FD; 449 FD; 479 FD; 429 FD; 433 FD; 644 FD)
Pat's - 2,443 (1,887; 1,621; 1,504; 1,088; 1,321; 1,386; 1,687; 1,474; 1,346)
Rovers - 6,314 (3,445; 2,749; 2,809; 2,041; 2,890; 2,269; 2,763; 3,127; 3,779)
Shels - 3,032 (1,075 FD; 654 FD; 496 FD; 554 FD; 596 FD; 713 FD; 1,114; 1,187; 781 FD)
Sligo - 2,265 (1,995; 1,853; 1,717; 1,750; 1,750; 1,959; 2,342; 3,007; 2,103)
Waterford - 1,882 (1,597; 2,329; 1,550 FD; 314 FD; 460 FD; 470 FD; 478 FD; 453 FD; 466 FD)
FIRST DIVISION
Athlone - 261 (369; 130; 154; 156; 314; 653 PD; 754; 271; 200)
Bray - 1,106 (798; 643 PD; 966 PD; 957 PD; 769 PD; 718 PD; 891 PD; 965 PD; 1,121 PD)
Cabinteely - 401 (370; 261; 346; 352; 610)
Cobh - 440 (280; 236; 358; 403; 366; 223; 439; 2008 - 1,122 PD; 681)
Drogheda - 737 (928; 377; 850 PD; 583; 813 PD; 1,064 PD; 817 PD; 977 PD; 811 PD)
Galway - 0 (795; 746; 1,376 PD; 1,169 PD; 1,290 PD; 975)
Longford - 442 (611; 449; 342; 488 PD; 803 PD; 567; 379; 365; 315)
Rovers II - 312 (231 - 2014)
UCD - 200 (735 PD; 365; 236; 297; 216; 397 PD; 487 PD; 506 PD; 558 PD; 610 PD)
Wexford - 212 (235; 181; 338; 585 PD; 553; 331; 227; 302; 216)
PREMIER AVERAGE: 2,986 (2,185; 2,170; 1,902; 1,476; 1,681; 1,502; 1,566; 1,630; 1,547)
FIRST DIVISION AVERAGE: 454(586; 413; 477; 476; 486; 495; 391; 372; 578)
OVERALL AVERAGE: 2,046 (1,500; 1,249; 1,387; 1,117; 1,249; 1,160; 1,140; 1,125; 1,110)
OVERALL PREMIER ATTENDANCE: 65,697 (393,238; 316,515; 376,627; 292,204; 332,805; 297,334)
OVERALL FIRST ATTENDANCE: 5,900 (79,115; 55,756; 53,461; 52,807; 54,474; 55,408)
OVERALL COMBINED ATTENDANCE: 71,597 (472,353; 372,271; 430,088; 345,011; 387,279; 352,742)
Cheers Nigel.
Some huge increases, could see big crowds continue when/If season starts again, people will be desperate to see some live football
It could go either way I reckon. When things return to normality it could be the case that people will flock to events, or they could be wary of mass gatherings if this affects their physiology. It’s also the case that disposable income will be way down when the dust settles on all this and could bring on a recession, something that has never favoured LOI clubs.Quote:
Originally Posted by sbgawa
UCD - getting social distancing right since 1979 :D
Dundalk seem to be stuck on 2,700 since 2016. This has nothing to do with the away end, as some clubs do takedecent away support, I've said it before, there is certain 'laziness' with our core support in picking games they go to.
This team should be getting 3k min.
Don't forget that Dundalk only has a population of 65,000 people. It could obviously draw bigger crowds, but not much bigger for a small town with another club in the same county eating into their potential support too.Quote:
Originally Posted by oriel
You can't just outright dismiss a very valid factor just because you don't like it. Especially not when it's a factor that is never, and never will be, relevant to you.Quote:
Originally Posted by oriel
Anyway everyone knows why Dundalks attendances have plateaued where they have, some factors Dundalk can work on, some are league dependent, some require wider societal changes.
This 'laziness' narrative is also regularly trotted out by some on OW and could be generously described as, ahem, lazy. Blaming people for not attending rarely encourages them to come more regularly and obscures analysis of the actual reasons.Quote:
Originally Posted by oriel
The limitations of the ground in the context of cover and sight lines means that it is very difficult to increase the consistent home support. When the attendance level is circa 2250 - 2500 there is reasonable rain cover and sights lines with the obvious exception of the away end.
Beyond that attendance level it creates a sharp down trajectory in the match experience - it is not especially attractive to take kids where they are likely to get soaked in the rain or have limited views of the match. It becomes a near impossible task to turn large numbers of casuals into regulars with these issues.
The away end is not the problem itself - it is just one part of it.
Its a lot less than that, I think 45k in the town, add in Blackrock area maybe 50k, but def no more than that.Quote:
Originally Posted by EatYerGreens
However there is not a lot to attract locals on a wet night, ridiculous at this stage that even more modest short term improvements can't be installed. How hard can be it to be build a roof on both sides of the stand that doesn't impede the stand, and even a terrace behind the town goal?
No one is asking for overnight miracles, gradual improvements would be nice, and this would increase crowds in my view, this and better food / drinks / toilets all over the ground, yes there is a good core going to home games, but this should be the only show in town on a Friday, in the current state its not.
Oriel -
Dundalk town has a population just shy of 30k.Throw in Blackrock,Bellingham and the peninsula you get 45k.
Dunleer and anything south of there is Drogheda.
Dundalk supporters north of the border(and there are a good few) are mostly Dundalk native.North of Killeen border crossing is prob 0
This exercise was done before.Dundalk for the population we have is punching above its weight,and Sligo also.Shams attendance same % as Dundalk re population and attendances and i think Derry was in there.
The yanks in Dundalk spin improving the ground to paying say McEleney's wages.
Which would you want?
Hypothetical question
.
To be honest the whole small improvements, stick a roof on kinda of thinking is a false economy, it won’t happen, no one will do it because for Oriel it has reached the stage of keep it as it is or a proper redevelopment.
Anything else would be a stop gap that would have to be destroyed in the event of a proper redevelopment (which surely inevitably will come) and therefore a waste of money.
I can’t blame Dundalk at this stage for letting it completely rot to the extent that it becomes entirely not fit for purpose then somehow get a proper redevelopment.
You are right but where there is a will there is a way. Seaview in Belfast would be the top end example of development with consideration for a move in due course. At this stage I can only presume that there would be need for planning permission to even just cover areas which could open a can of worms that can only be fixed with a big job. Vinny was up painting walls in Oriel during this unscheduled break - some painting alone would at this point get some brownie points from Dundalk fans!Quote:
Originally Posted by DCWA
It is typical that the LOI is facing a fantastic season and the crowds in the PD were geat across the board with people I know who have had no interest in the LOI before now and then this crap hits us. Hopefully being starved of live sport will be a boost going forward when we're through this.Quote:
Originally Posted by nigel-harps1954
Attendances are always high early in the season. They come down over time, don't read much into crowds in the first 4 or 5 weeks.Quote:
Originally Posted by BonnieShels
TT - We were both wrong, I looked up the last population of Dundalk from June 2018, it was 39,004, so add in Blackrock area (closest to the town), this gives around 45k max.Quote:
Originally Posted by ToberonaTornado
Re Q on paying wages over ground improvements, I get that, but modest improvements won't cost the earth, plus on another question from DCWA, this being a waste of money, its really not, plenty of people renting will have their properties improved. The tiresome question will always be the key areas of roofing both sides of the stand, then anything** even perm - temp behind town goal, these are not huge projects and would serve the club well for medium term.
** examples being what Limerick had behind their goal or possibly what Pats have.
Dundalk and Dundalk Rural, or the hinterland wouldnt be a kick in the pants off 60k. Lisdoo/Armagh Rd, Faughart, Haggardstown and Blackrock as mentioned are all classed a rural population but would be a big catchment for the club. When all the housing units that are being built at South Dundalk just beyond Sextons Pub it would jump again with nearly 2000 housing units being onstructed. Likewise at the back of Mooreland where a massive tranche of land has been opened up. If that development goes ahead it would include links to Ardee and Carrick Rds and complete a ring road which would be of benefit to the club with access possible from either side of Oriel including additional exits off the M1 toward the Carrick side of the road.
One of the main criticisms aimed at Limerick was that through all the money, they had exactly what they had at the end as what they had at the beginning - nothing.
I do fear that the same will happen to Dundalk (to a lesser extent seeing as they have a lease on the ground) with the way things are with Peak 6. Yes they have a fantastic training facility, but the fans will never lay eyes on the inside of it. With this current pandemic (no fault of Dundalk's) I assume they're paying wages out of their pocket, if you combine that with a poor European run last year and potentially another one whenever it comes around again, I'm afraid they will pull the plug meaning that people will be watching football through the same grubby perspex glass after five league titles as they were when they were in a playoff.
Not wishing any ill on Dundalk, hope it doesn't come off as such.
P6 have confirmed they will pay wages during this period, they haven't given a date but appears it covers players and staff.
https://www.dundalkfc.com/a-message-...-of-directors/
I think like most Irish clubs, if owners or main backers pull out, either need to get new owners or the club would be in trouble. P6 picked up 1.2M last year from Europe, but we all know that's not what they are after, its a slice of the EL group stage (7m now) or play off round (2.5 - 3m I think, if you advance via CL stage and not drop out to EL like Linfield did).
Good to see them confirming payments, and we assume this is to the small admin team also, disgusting to see likes of Liverpool going down the Furlong route today for admin staff, while their every year a millionaire players get full wages.
It is very much a concern for every Dundalk fan. We have to keep the faith to some extent though that Peak6 are true to their word and are in for the long haul. Disruption to the season aside I think progress has been made on squad additions that could improve our chances of progressing in Europe. As a seeded side you hope for that 1st round minimum and then parachuting in to 2nd/3rd tier comps. Peak6 to their credit have done exactly as they have said so far. No big unfulfilled promises of a new ground - depending on future achievements maybe. There was little stopping them from putting in planning applications and kicking them down the road for decades. We have had a paint job done it seems - additional off field progress :p The way things have been developed off the field with player facilities, new staff etc. well it makes some sense to try and get all that right and maximised first tbh. Hopefully this will develop the club to the point of ground improvements on the cards.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shearer
This discussion is repeated ad nauseum though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nesta99
Why would Peak6 spend any money on ground improvements, unless forced to do so for a license? They're venture capitalists, in it to make money. And they'll do that on the pitch, not via the stadium. They wouldn't recoup the cost of any work to the stadium within any sensible timespan. So I just don't see any incentive for them to do it. I fear you're stuck with Oriel for the foreseeable.
It has and I'm sure it will be discussed again as soon as people gat lashed on in the away section or there are no minerals or crisps on sale. In relation to the last sentence I dont think I suggested much else!? If there are signicifant numbers left without tickets each home game at some point, after a number of successful European group stage campaigns then the picture could change.Quote:
Originally Posted by EatYerGreens
I dont completely agree that cost of work would never be recouped though or wouldnt be of any value to the owners. Clever design, multi-use, successful grant awards, incremental work etc bring down cost or generate additional income, and before primary use is included. Throw in sponsorship and how business might be more willing to have their brand associated with a more modern facility, maybe with corporate hospitality areas thrown in, cheap credit and so on well it isnt impossible to achieve if there ever is any will. There would likely be need to change the lease agreement. Venture capitalists or not if the stars align ye just never know, we could have a new stand open before Harps do...
Its all fanciful thinking, but what isnt is maximising all possible use of what already exists eg within the YDC, bars, pitch or whatever. Recruiting full time staff that generate more than they cost even.
One wonders whether there will be grants to apply for when this is all over, massive debt being racked up and sports funding may not be exactly top of the priority list after it. :(
This would an interesting route, for example I think (like most other leagues) there shouuld be a min standard for our league, almost like Euro early rounds. For LOI I think it should be min 3k seats (we have that) but all covered (we don't). Part of the problem solved.Quote:
Originally Posted by EatYerGreens
Peak 6's game plan is very simple, very clear, and has been from the start.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nesta99
Tap into the large sums of money available from European football by investing in the team to dominate Irish football and win the league every (or almost every) year, and then build a side capable of reaching the EL or CL Group Stages more often than not.
So that's all about players, players, players. Start and end of it.
If they had any interest in fcuking around with creative thinking re the stadium etc then they'd have done it by now. But that would all involve organisational capacity etc that they've shown little interest in funding or supporting.
Success on the pitch = Return on Investment. Start and end of it for those boys.
Must be great up there in the clouds with a lovely stadium and a crap football side.Quote:
Originally Posted by EatYerGreens
Anyway,just wait until we get this cheque from the sports council and then we'll fecking shove it up yee all.......
What part of calling it fanciful thinking wasnt clear EYG? I'm well aware of the ownership model and suggested any investment in the ground may happen if a bunch of other things were to happen - including things that are not going to happen anytime soon. As for organisational capacity - I suggested maximising what currently exists, while not making much difference Peak6 did employ 2 pretty high profile CEOs. There have since been a number of organisational appointments and significant changes at boardroom level which suggests to me that they recognise that they need to start creating additionl income to offset what the project is costing irrespective of potential prizemoney so I dont know where you are getting that second last paragraph from? And they have thought with fcuking around re the stadium and decided not to bother but a feasibility study was done on whether to stay at Oriel or look toward a greenfield site, it was no surprise that it was decided to stick with Oriel. There was also some looking at covering the away section but it would have created even more issues with sight lines. There are rumours too of design plans having been drawn up, the current CEO and former organisational General Manager has alluded to them but as we havent seen them they could be as real as the tooth fairy.Quote:
Originally Posted by EatYerGreens
Someone's clearly struggling with self-isolation :pQuote:
Originally Posted by ToberonaTornado
Slightly off topic. Due to the severe lack of football, I have been watching Belorussian football highlights on YT (perhaps I'm not alone). Decent skill level, as some LOI teams have sen in Euro qualifications. However, if anyone thought LOI attendances were shajt, the Belorussian League takes the 'hold my beer' option. BATE, with their space age Stdaium (by LOI standards) saw a crowd of less than 700 for their last game, and it's not an anomaly.
Some creative thinking or just ridiculous....I know what I think! The only surprise is that some LoI club didnt try similar, Dublin City Id bet would probably have tried it eventually if they'd lasted long enough :rolleyes::DQuote:
Originally Posted by CorribsideSteve
https://www.theguardian.com/football...ans-in-belarus
I recall a football annual many years ago where Melchester our whoever were invited to play a pre season friendly against non league team owned by a cash rich investor. The fans turned out to be dummies and the atmosphere was provided by speakers, also the opposition turned out to be monkeys, pretty useful monkeys too as I recall. The cash rich investor was a mad scientist and he had some scheme afoot which was thwarted when Roy and the boys climbed into the committee room and confronted him. I forget what happened to the scientist, rozzers got him I think.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nesta99
lol a ridiculous story that we all are quietly thinking 'ye never f*ckin know in LoI! I suppose the multicoloursed seating schemes are used to reduce the look of empty stadia which isnt a million miles off but dummies in seats is a bit much. Probably be as cheap to pay people to go to games in Belarus.