New crossborder tournament: Unite the Union Champions Cup

Last 20 minutes or so of their teams season and about to win the teams third piece of silverware of the season and those dunderheads stood belting out the fields of athenry and the celtic symphony, absolute embarrassment

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Originally Posted by MattB11

Last 20 minutes or so of their teams season and about to win the teams third piece of silverware of the season and those dunderheads stood belting out the fields of athenry and the celtic symphony, absolute embarrassment

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Yet when Munster rugby fans 'belt out' the same song...…

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Originally Posted by White Horse

It was obviously planned that their bus would arrive at Oriel 5 minutes before kick off. They appear to have had to take a scenic tour around north County Louth as they arrived earlier than expected. The Guards closed the Carrick road to traffic, erected barricades and escorted the fans into the away section.

There is no way I would go to an away match is these circumstances.

For all the horror being mouthed by snowflakes about political chants, this is the issue that would get to me most as a fan.

It was humiliating night for Linfield fans. To see them taking down their "No Surrender" flag at halftime out of embarrassment almost brought a sympathetic tear to my eye.

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They tried to leave at half time and were told by Gardai they would have to wait until the end

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Originally Posted by MattB11

Last 20 minutes or so of their teams season and about to win the teams third piece of silverware of the season and those dunderheads stood belting out the fields of athenry and the celtic symphony, absolute embarrassment

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*fourth... absolute embarrassment

I doubt if many Linfield fans would come down again for the same fixture next year given the tight travel and security measures, the hammering they took and the provocative chanting of some Dundalk fans. The fact that the tv cameras and microphones are at the Shed side of the ground where Dundalk's more noisy fans go probably made the chanting sound worse on tv than to fans on the other side of the ground.
Congratulations to Dundalk for their performance on the night and picking up 3 trophies in one season is a great achievement.

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Originally Posted by ArFella

*fourth**... absolute embarrassment

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Originally Posted by trevy

Congratulations to Dundalk for their performance on the night and picking up 3 trophies** in one season is a great achievement.

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** Fifth..... if you count the Malone Cup. when Georgie Kelly got a hatrick

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Originally Posted by Mr_Parker

I think some are missing the bigger picture. In the NIFL, there have been year on year improvements in dealing with supporter behaviour, particularly with offensive chants and banners. Yes it pops up now and again, but it is the exception, not the rule. When it does occur, clubs are generally quick to take action to deal with those responsible. E.g. Cliftonville played Linfield twice recently. At the first game there were issues which both clubs attempted to deal with on the night, but in the middle of a game it is not always to do more than minimise such, as it can inflame a situation. However, for the next game action was taken, including the identification of some of those involved and several were refused entry. There were no such issues at the 2nd game.

With all the talk of an AIL, many were looking to see the 2 games between Linfield and Dundalk as a sort of measure of a potential future league, both on and off the pitch. The off pitch issues have and will be focussed on by supporters of a losing team. That is natural and happens over all sorts of issues, not just offensive songs etc. Therefore what has happened has been viewed by many as a microcosm of what an AIL might hold. People focus on Linfield given the past, but there are other clubs who if playing in an AIL could give rise to bigger reactions/issues to their presence at a LOI ground. Therefore, many view that an AIL could reignite many of the issues that have been nearly extinguished in the NIFL.

However, the football on the pitch aside, from reading their comments post last night, it was not the songs that did most damage to support from Linfield supporters, and indeed many other NIFL team supporters, for an AIL, it was how they were treated like cattle just to go to a game. They had to meet in Banbridge at 4pm. Then they had to get on buses and be transported to the game. They then travelled by back roads, lights had to be kept off on the bus, only arriving at the ground some 3 hours later just as the teams were coming out. Normally a 30 min journey. That's what they and fans of other NIFL clubs view as a possible future in an AIL just to support their team at an away game. Fans will quickly vote with their feet.

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Surely an AIL could and would just do what was done in the examples you gave of the Cliftonville-Linfield matches ? i.e. identify the d!ckheads and take measures to root them out ?

This isn't beyond the wit of those promoting the AIL concept. And if anything they'd have a stronger motive to deal with it, as the entire project could be derailed by any such serious problems.

I don't know why or how you conclude this couldn't be addressed.

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Originally Posted by Mr_Parker

I think some are missing the bigger picture. In the NIFL, there have been year on year improvements in dealing with supporter behaviour, particularly with offensive chants and banners. Yes it pops up now and again, but it is the exception, not the rule. When it does occur, clubs are generally quick to take action to deal with those responsible. E.g. Cliftonville played Linfield twice recently. At the first game there were issues which both clubs attempted to deal with on the night, but in the middle of a game it is not always to do more than minimise such, as it can inflame a situation. However, for the next game action was taken, including the identification of some of those involved and several were refused entry. There were no such issues at the 2nd game.

With all the talk of an AIL, many were looking to see the 2 games between Linfield and Dundalk as a sort of measure of a potential future league, both on and off the pitch. The off pitch issues have and will be focussed on by supporters of a losing team. That is natural and happens over all sorts of issues, not just offensive songs etc. Therefore what has happened has been viewed by many as a microcosm of what an AIL might hold. People focus on Linfield given the past, but there are other clubs who if playing in an AIL could give rise to bigger reactions/issues to their presence at a LOI ground. Therefore, many view that an AIL could reignite many of the issues that have been nearly extinguished in the NIFL.

However, the football on the pitch aside, from reading their comments post last night, it was not the songs that did most damage to support from Linfield supporters, and indeed many other NIFL team supporters, for an AIL, it was how they were treated like cattle just to go to a game. They had to meet in Banbridge at 4pm. Then they had to get on buses and be transported to the game. They then travelled by back roads, lights had to be kept off on the bus, only arriving at the ground some 3 hours later just as the teams were coming out. Normally a 30 min journey. That's what they and fans of other NIFL clubs view as a possible future in an AIL just to support their team at an away game. Fans will quickly vote with their feet.

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This is because it was essentially a one-off event with no precedent. Hence over-the-top measures were taken to mitigate against any trouble.

If these sorts of fixtures were happening week in week out across the island, then the police both sides of the border would a) know exactly what level of risk and issues they were dealing with, rather than assume the worst, and b) Chill the fcuk out about it all.

You can't take an exceptional event and try to translate it into ongoing/everyday circumstance.

Imagine the outrage if there had been some significant incident and full security hadnt been in place!! I agree that as such fixtures became more frequent that arrangments would be less severe assuming no problems occured. Without wanting another dose of Oriel Park bashing if there wasnt the need to have all supporters enter the ground via the same route I think the arrangements in place for Dundalk fans going to Windsor would have been applied, an advisory rather than compulsory travel on club coaches. Its a valid observation made earlier that it must have been prearranged to arrive minutes before kick-off and hence the ridiculous situation of driving around North Louth killing time.

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Originally Posted by EatYerGreens

This is because it was essentially a one-off event with no precedent. Hence over-the-top measures were taken to mitigate against any trouble.

If these sorts of fixtures were happening week in week out across the island, then the police both sides of the border would a) know exactly what level of risk and issues they were dealing with, rather than assume the worst, and b) Chill the fcuk out about it all.

You can't take an exceptional event and try to translate it into ongoing/everyday circumstance.

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I suspect the silly sectarian chanting would also lessen (there will always be one or two) if/when matches became more frequent. there is a novelty element to 'one off' matches but I doubt if the silliness would be replicated on a weekly basis.
Its honestly a bit snow flake to oppose an AIL because a few clowns sang some RA song(s) and even more so to whine about the 'Fields of Athenry'. If people want to be offended they will find something to be offended about, personally I don't like the UDA/UVF but hearing people singing about them never stopped me attending matches in the SETANTA and I never met anybody who cited it as a reason not to attend.

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Originally Posted by marinobohs

I suspect the silly sectarian chanting would also lessen (there will always be one or two) if/when matches became more frequent. there is a novelty element to 'one off' matches but I doubt if the silliness would be replicated on a weekly basis.
Its honestly a bit snow flake to oppose an AIL because a few clowns sang some RA song(s) and even more so to whine about the 'Fields of Athenry'. If people want to be offended they will find something to be offended about, personally I don't like the UDA/UVF but hearing people singing about them never stopped me attending matches in the SETANTA and I never met anybody who cited it as a reason not to attend.

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That's all well and good branding people snowflakes, but you have to think of why it's enough to not want an AIL.

The Irish League was blighted by sectarianism for decades, it has taken a massive effort for a lot of clubs to minimise it to the point where 99% of games you wouldn't hear anything sectarian.

It's a major reason families are slowly coming back to local football. Our crowds are up across the league by 45% compared to 10 years ago.

To leave what is a growing steady league, that everyone has helped to make more enjoyable for everyone, to leave it for an AIL that has nothing concrete, a potential major upsurge in sectarianism and supporters having to be sneaked into grounds in the dead of darkness for a football game, a journey that should take 35mins tops but took near 3 hours.

I think, a competition, with decent money in it, tv deal comprising of the top 3 in each league plus the two Cup winners playing in 2 mini leagues, the winners and runners up qualify to semis and then we have a final. This is the way forward until the supporters are familiar to each others teams and the stupid stuff is knocked on the head, or at least minimised to a tolerable level that it's easy ignored.

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Originally Posted by Steve Bruce

That's all well and good branding people snowflakes, but you have to think of why it's enough to not want an AIL.

The Irish League was blighted by sectarianism for decades, it has taken a massive effort for a lot of clubs to minimise it to the point where 99% of games you wouldn't hear anything sectarian.

It's a major reason families are slowly coming back to local football. Our crowds are up across the league by 45% compared to 10 years ago.

To leave what is a growing steady league, that everyone has helped to make more enjoyable for everyone, to leave it for an AIL that has nothing concrete, a potential major upsurge in sectarianism and supporters having to be sneaked into grounds in the dead of darkness for a football game, a journey that should take 35mins tops but took near 3 hours.

I think, a competition, with decent money in it, tv deal comprising of the top 3 in each league plus the two Cup winners playing in 2 mini leagues, the winners and runners up qualify to semis and then we have a final. This is the way forward until the supporters are familiar to each others teams and the stupid stuff is knocked on the head, or at least minimised to a tolerable level that it's easy ignored.

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The level of sectarianism in IL was a damn sight more than a few muppets singing “The fields” . The fact there was NO incidents at Oriel is positive. Getting “offended” by a few numpties singing songs is pure snowflake stuff. You would hear worse in any League in the World.
If that’s the benchmark it’s purely because people don’t want an AIL for other reasons.

Can 'snowflake' be banned as a term?

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Originally Posted by Steve Bruce

That's all well and good branding people snowflakes, but you have to think of why it's enough to not want an AIL.

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No you don’t. It is simply not enough of to not want an AIL.

Genuinely I am perplexed that this has prompted such widespread comment here and elsewhere.

A few dodgy chants and and the cops being OTT the only issues arising from this game when the two teams play each other less than once in a blue moon. How can this be considered anything other than a success off the pitch? Literally no significant incidents whatsoever.

There are Premier League games, SPL games etc that this happens every single season (this isn’t just restricted to high profile derbies/rivalries) and these teams play each other twice a year.

Anyone who considers a few chants to be a genuine obstacle to completely reforming the game on this island needs their head checked.

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Originally Posted by marinobohs

Yet when Munster rugby fans 'belt out' the same song...…

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The difference being that TFOA has become associated with Munster Rugby.

The idiots who sang it on Monday only did so because it's seen in football as a Glasgow Celtic song.

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Originally Posted by Nesta99

Can 'snowflake' be banned as a term?

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Before its use starts to avalanche.

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Originally Posted by Nesta99

Can 'snowflake' be banned as a term?

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To protect the feelings of those who are self-obsessed and fragile, easily offended, or unable to deal with opposing opinions?

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Originally Posted by Nesta99

Can 'snowflake' be banned as a term?

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I'm outraged that you are trying to ban a totally innocent term, how dare you. That's it, no AIL for me :rolleyes:

OK boomers... *








*Please for all that is good in the world don't start bringing these sort of terms into threads, seeing them everywhere on social media non stop is bad enough. They're not clever, kills genuine conversation and doesn't win you any internetz pointz lads. Thanks for reading my Ted Talk.

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Originally Posted by marinobohs

The level of sectarianism in IL was a damn sight more than a few muppets singing “The fields” . The fact there was NO incidents at Oriel is positive. Getting “offended” by a few numpties singing songs is pure snowflake stuff. You would hear worse in any League in the World.
If that’s the benchmark it’s purely because people don’t want an AIL for other reasons.

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"The Fields" wasn't the issue, it was the IRA songs, anti British Songs that where the issue. The fact that you and some others seem to brush it off so lightly, reinforces why it is an issue. If you don't see a problem then how can it be solved? Or more like, if you see people are finding it a problem, you would rather call them snowflakes than acknowledge the issue and deal with it. Either way it's not a good look to attract all sides of the community is it?

Also I don't know anyone who has this as the sole reason for not wanting an AIL, it is one part of it. The biggest part is Lucid's 2 year planning of the AIL is all fart and no ****e. Their is nothing of substance whatsoever.

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Originally Posted by DCWA

No you don’t. It is simply not enough of to not want an AIL.

Genuinely I am perplexed that this has prompted such widespread comment here and elsewhere.

A few dodgy chants and and the cops being OTT the only issues arising from this game when the two teams play each other less than once in a blue moon. How can this be considered anything other than a success off the pitch? Literally no significant incidents whatsoever.

There are Premier League games, SPL games etc that this happens every single season (this isn’t just restricted to high profile derbies/rivalries) and these teams play each other twice a year.

Anyone who considers a few chants to be a genuine obstacle to completely reforming the game on this island needs their head checked.

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Again another who just sweeps it under the carpet. It wasn't a few chants, it was considerably more than that. The Hoops linfield supporters had to go through to get to the game was ridiculous, it should never take 3 hours to make a 35minute journey.



Can I also say, their is nothing wrong with just rejecting the idea of an AIL just because people like it as it is. I actually don't understand why any of you would want an AIL? What would the introduction of a few Northern Ireland teams actually do to enhance the game? Do you think Galway vs Linfield is going to garner massive crowds over and above a top Dublin side going to Galway?

We have two leagues that are getting pittance from TV and sponsorship, why do people thing putting them together is going to generate millions in revenue more than we do right now? It's a hollow proposal from lucid and it's a hollow dream.

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Originally Posted by marinobohs

I'm outraged that you are trying to ban a totally innocent term, how dare you. That's it, no AIL for me :rolleyes:

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So your just a WUM then. No real debate from you, just soundbites and and sarcasm.

Good to know, I wish I had of read this post before posting the last one quoting you.

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Originally Posted by Steve Bruce

Again another who just sweeps it under the carpet. It wasn't a few chants, it was considerably more than that. The Hoops linfield supporters had to go through to get to the game was ridiculous, it should never take 3 hours to make a 35minute journey.



Can I also say, their is nothing wrong with just rejecting the idea of an AIL just because people like it as it is. I actually don't understand why any of you would want an AIL? What would the introduction of a few Northern Ireland teams actually do to enhance the game? Do you think Galway vs Linfield is going to garner massive crowds over and above a top Dublin side going to Galway?

We have two leagues that are getting pittance from TV and sponsorship, why do people thing putting them together is going to generate millions in revenue more than we do right now? It's a hollow proposal from lucid and it's a hollow dream.

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It was a few chants, In Windsor it was about 20 teenagers on both sides.

I couldnt hear the Linfield fans from Shed on Monday, but again in Dundalk section it was 20/30 teenagers who probably couldn't point out Belfast on a map! It just sounded louder as they stand directly under the TV cameras.

Ive seen more abuse by fans at a Dundalk v Rovers game, or Dundalk V Cork over past few years

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Originally Posted by Steve Bruce

So your just a WUM then. No real debate from you, just soundbites and and sarcasm.

Good to know, I wish I had of read this post before posting the last one quoting you.

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That post was, quite clearly, a joke response to the one posted (and quoted) NOT yours. Jesus, with skin that thin its no wonder you were all upset about a few idiots being idiots.

As regards travel, you should take that up with PSNI and AGS, as has been said clearly those type of arrangements were certainly not the norm for SETANTA Cup games (including Linfield). And as for brushing it under the carpet, what exactly do you want ? its a few numpties making a fool of themselves, happens at every match (whether sectarian or not), honestly Dundalk fans got over the 'trauma':D of Israeli and Para regiment flags at Windsor - some of them didn't even need therapy !

The prospect of decent investment is exactly the attraction of an AIL, the prospect of developing the game here and providing a strong viable League that might be able to compete seriously in Europe are things I believe most fans want.

If you are cozy in your big fish/ small pond scenario fine. Some fans would genuinely hope for more.

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Originally Posted by marinobohs

That post was, quite clearly, a joke response to the one posted (and quoted) NOT yours. Jesus, with skin that thin its no wonder you were all upset about a few idiots being idiots.

As regards travel, you should take that up with PSNI and AGS, as has been said clearly those type of arrangements were certainly not the norm for SETANTA Cup games (including Linfield). And as for brushing it under the carpet, what exactly do you want ? its a few numpties making a fool of themselves, happens at every match (whether sectarian or not), honestly Dundalk fans got over the 'trauma':D of Israeli and Para regiment flags at Windsor - some of them didn't even need therapy !

The prospect of decent investment is exactly the attraction of an AIL, the prospect of developing the game here and providing a strong viable League that might be able to compete seriously in Europe are things I believe most fans want. I
If you are cozy in your big fish/ small pond scenario fine. Some fans would genuinely hope for more.

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I laughed when I seen them to be honest. Best laugh was the Big No Surrender flag they had in Oriel with a Rangers crest on it, that they took down at half time because it was 3-0 :o

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Originally Posted by Steve Bruce

Again another who just sweeps it under the carpet. It wasn't a few chants, it was considerably more than that. The Hoops linfield supporters had to go through to get to the game was ridiculous, it should never take 3 hours to make a 35minute journey.



Can I also say, their is nothing wrong with just rejecting the idea of an AIL just because people like it as it is. I actually don't understand why any of you would want an AIL? What would the introduction of a few Northern Ireland teams actually do to enhance the game? Do you think Galway vs Linfield is going to garner massive crowds over and above a top Dublin side going to Galway?

We have two leagues that are getting pittance from TV and sponsorship, why do people thing putting them together is going to generate millions in revenue more than we do right now? It's a hollow proposal from lucid and it's a hollow dream.

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So it was chants. Happy to retract the “few”. Point still stands - it was chants. West Ham song about yids to Spurs. Utd and Liverpool about the Munich disaster and Hillsborough. This is at the very top end of football, the glamour clubs and clubs who play each other every single year but chants at a game between Dundalk and Linfield given the historical context and unique circumstances are enough of a reason to reject the idea of an AIL?

FWIW I have said in another post that the journey Linfield fans were forced to undertake is not feasible
and no football fan should endure such scrutiny and inconvenience - I have no counter argument there.

Also I haven’t voiced a for or against opinion on the AIL at all (for clarification I am for an AIL not necessarily in support of it right now or in support of Lucid’s plan).

Simply can’t have that unsavoury chanting is by any measure a good enough reason to reject the proposal.

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Originally Posted by DCWA

So it was chants. Happy to retract the “few”. Point still stands - it was chants. West Ham song about yids to Spurs. Utd and Liverpool about the Munich disaster and Hillsborough. This is at the very top end of football, the glamour clubs and clubs who play each other every single year but chants at a game between Dundalk and Linfield given the historical context and unique circumstances are enough of a reason to reject the idea of an AIL?

FWIW I have said in another post that the journey Linfield fans were forced to undertake is not feasible
and no football fan should endure such scrutiny and inconvenience - I have no counter argument there.

Also I haven’t voiced a for or against opinion on the AIL at all (for clarification I am for an AIL not necessarily in support of it right now or in support of Lucid’s plan).

Simply can’t have that unsavoury chanting is by any measure a good enough reason to reject the proposal.

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Can I ask DCWA what route did that bus go from Belfast to Dundalk as that is shocking bad. That must have travelled through the Mournes or something?

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Originally Posted by Martinho II

Can I ask DCWA what route did that bus go from Belfast to Dundalk as that is shocking bad. That must have travelled through the Mournes or something?

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Not sure if I am missing something here ? Consider myself embarrassed if I am but I don’t know what route they took ? Simply picking up that they had to meet at Banbridge the rattle round the depths of Co. Louth for a while.

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Originally Posted by Martinho II

Can I ask DCWA what route did that bus go from Belfast to Dundalk as that is shocking bad. That must have travelled through the Mournes or something?

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Not sure, but it appears police didn't want them in Dundalk until near kick off time so driver was told to drive around North Louth for a time. Seems there was a major over reaction by police for this game. I heard Linfeild fans wishing to leave early (some at HT) were also stopped leaving the ground.

[QUOTE=Steve Bruce;2023610 The Hoops linfield supporters had to go through to get to the game was ridiculous, it should never take 3 hours to make a 35minute journey.[/QUOTE]

I wasn't aware there was a Rovers fanclub link in with "delinfield!!".😀

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Originally Posted by placid casual

I wasn't aware there was a Rovers fanclub link in with "delinfield!!".😀

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The recently formed “Alan Manus Branch” 😀

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Originally Posted by EatYerGreens

Surely an AIL could and would just do what was done in the examples you gave of the Cliftonville-Linfield matches ? i.e. identify the d!ckheads and take measures to root them out ?

This isn't beyond the wit of those promoting the AIL concept. And if anything they'd have a stronger motive to deal with it, as the entire project could be derailed by any such serious problems.

I don't know why or how you conclude this couldn't be addressed.

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It would if the required legislation is in place, north and south, but it is not, nor do I believe that many clubs in the LOI have the necessary infrastructure, or stewarding. The former being the primary requirement, and I doubt that is in the gift of those proposing an AIL.

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Originally Posted by Nesta99

Imagine the outrage if there had been some significant incident and full security hadnt been in place!! I agree that as such fixtures became more frequent that arrangments would be less severe assuming no problems occured. Without wanting another dose of Oriel Park bashing if there wasnt the need to have all supporters enter the ground via the same route I think the arrangements in place for Dundalk fans going to Windsor would have been applied, an advisory rather than compulsory travel on club coaches. Its a valid observation made earlier that it must have been prearranged to arrive minutes before kick-off and hence the ridiculous situation of driving around North Louth killing time.

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It took 28 years for restrictions on Linfield playing at Solitude to change, and a further 21 years have passed since that process began and restrictions still continue.

More frequent fixtures do not guarantee anything.

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Originally Posted by EatYerGreens

This is because it was essentially a one-off event with no precedent. Hence over-the-top measures were taken to mitigate against any trouble.

If these sorts of fixtures were happening week in week out across the island, then the police both sides of the border would a) know exactly what level of risk and issues they were dealing with, rather than assume the worst, and b) Chill the fcuk out about it all.

You can't take an exceptional event and try to translate it into ongoing/everyday circumstance.

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But it wasn't a "one off" as Linfield have faced restrictions at Dundalk previously and other venues. Only yesterday they faced similar when visiting the Brandywell plus an early 1pm ko.

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Originally Posted by marinobohs

As regards travel, you should take that up with PSNI and AGS, as has been said clearly those type of arrangements were certainly not the norm for SETANTA Cup games (including Linfield).

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Absolute rubbish. Linfield fans faced virtually the same when playing at Dundalk in the Setanta.

Correct, the restrictions on Linfield fans going to Oriel were the same as the Setanta cup ties 8 years ago. However, the restrictions on Dundalk fans going to Windsor Park were relaxed. It was no longer necessary to go in the bus convoy, fans could get tickets online and make their own private travel arrangements.

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Originally Posted by holidaysong

Correct, the restrictions on Linfield fans going to Oriel were the same as the Setanta cup ties 8 years ago. However, the restrictions on Dundalk fans going to Windsor Park were relaxed. It was no longer necessary to go in the bus convoy, fans could get tickets online and make their own private travel arrangements.

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Not quite true.

Northern based Dundalk fans who couldn't make it to OP to get a bus could e-mail the club with their contact details and when then verified were able to pick up tix at WP but still had to go into the proper Dundalk section on the night.

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Originally Posted by Mr_Parker

Absolute rubbish. Linfield fans faced virtually the same when playing at Dundalk in the Setanta.

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The AIL is bringing everyone closer together already. Cliftonville is very concerned about how Linfield fans get to and from games.

This is the start of something beautiful.

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Originally Posted by ToberonaTornado

Not quite true.

Northern based Dundalk fans who couldn't make it to OP to get a bus could e-mail the club with their contact details and when then verified were able to pick up tix at WP but still had to go into the proper Dundalk section on the night.

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It was the same V Glentoran that season

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Originally Posted by dundalkfc10

It was the same V Glentoran that season

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It was indeed.
Seamless operation iirc.

Same as at op & wp recently.Some songs but abs no trouble.
Songs and and goading will die down after a while in an all-ireland league.