Printable View
Just like to remind you that in July 2003, Chelsea were £93 million in debt, and were 1 week away from administration before they were bought by an oligarch. Now they are Premiership champions, CL semi-finalists, and awash with money. If they can do it, so can Rovers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ringo
On what grounds? :confused: Pardon the pun!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Ringo
Your situation is totally different. It's like when Pats left Richmond to play in Harolds Cross for 4 seasons. Whitehall is still your home ground, whereas we don't have any.
Right, read it! I would just like to point out once again, that there was no relegation battle last season. As soon as it was announced that only 1 team would be relegated, everyone knew that it would be Home Farm. Guess who were relegated? Home Farm!! At the point that Roddy joined us, we were 7 points clear of them, so there was no battle. Home Farm were duly relegated, and finished 13 points from safety. Whether RC was in charge of Home Farm or not, wouldn't have affected the final placings.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ringo
As regards players not playing for you when RC left your club, 2 Rovers players have already threatened to leave this season. Are our fans whinging and whining about it?? No, we can understand players who are considering leaving the club because of the current situation. It's unpleasant but understandable.
If you talk to Home Farm, you'll get a different story. As has been pointed out before, there is no queue to get into the Eircom league. Dublin City started at the bottom. The licence was bleeding Home Farm dry; they were only delighted for someone to take it on. They want nothing to do with Dublin City & have in fact gone out of their way to awkward. Who exactly are we keeping out of the league?Quote:
Originally Posted by dcfcsteve
Where have you been :confused: . it wasn't even our ground last year. do you actually go to games?Quote:
Originally Posted by mypost
They had assets, huge fan base & huge merchandising opportunities. Are you seriously telling me sthere a suger dady out there who is going to come up with the money to pay off the debts of Rovers.Quote:
Originally Posted by mypost
Right so, so did you apply to join the league or not? Or was it processed as a name change or new application? You can't change your story to suit the circumstances.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ringo
Mullingar Athletic tried to join the league at the same time as Kildare btw, and I'm sure if they knew there was a "new" spot in the league they would've applied again. But there wasn't, as it was a name change, unless it was a lie.
Edit - Same time as Kildare, when St Francis left/merged
Everyone year the lowest team is re-elected , if no other team wants to come in ,AFAIK, why has their never been a vote on Mullingar Athletic or St Francis ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Macy
I don't hate DC but Ringo seemed to be taking too much pleasure in the problems of a another eL club so was valid to point out the idiocy of his posts.
1. It doesn't sound like a lot, it is a lot.Quote:
Originally Posted by pete
2. They can't get a new board till after the examinership.
3. With all due respect to the 400 club, no one would expect them to fund the present board.
4. Where is the money going to come from?
Quote:
Originally Posted by pete
possibly he's the lone voice of dissent from the el buddy club with their foaming at the mouth moral indignation - and lack of common sense with regard to a shower of cowboys taking the píss on a grand theft auto scale - and making free with state aid and priviliges which would be better served ploughed into responsible outfits
wont somebody PLEASE think of the Shamrocks :rolleyes:
I thought'd you'd empathise with Rovers. Weren't Pats the other club that misapropriated capital grant money for other purposes?Quote:
Originally Posted by wws
gee u got me there
head for the hills ma baker!
more el fan nonsense
get into the real world u idiot - WE HAVENT EVN GOT THE GRANT MONEY we were supposed to fcking get
geesh where do these ppl come from :rolleyes:
Dear obsessed it wasnt me or any of the fans who ran up this outrageous debt. We're not going out of business. Here's why: we have fans that are extraordinarily passionate about the club and are now working to raise funds to get us through this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ringo
Another fact is that every club lives beyond its means. How does CHF pay its players when the gate receipts are the equivalent of a round a drinks?
Only 2 members of the board are in situ during the present administration. If they stump up the cash they will be the future of the club but that is hardly likely.
We deal with facts and reality. You live in an anti Roddy, anti Rovers fantasy. You'd rather be in the first division than being in the premier?! Good boy that sums up your club alright managed by a nutter supported by????????????????????????????????
Come back if you have constructive criticism or even a point to make. If not nobody will miss you like your club who should be replaced by a team from Kerry.
KOH
Don't tar us all with the same brush.Quote:
Originally Posted by NY Hoop
Since you haven't seen accounts for every club don't use the word 'fact' either. It's a word that gets used too much on this forum.
Ringo - all of this doesn't escape the fact that Dublin City were NOT a new team. Regardless of what your relationship may or may not be with Home Farm now, and regardless of what their particular circumstances were at the time, there is a straight line between Home Farm's league membership and yours. The 2 of them are inextricably linked, as one and the same.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ringo
If there aren't, then I look forward to hearing about Dublin City's application to join the league. Whether or not anyone else is banging on the door to join is irrelevant.
And besides - the league's always managed to find teams when it's wanted to/had to, so don't be thinking you're the only club in the village now.....
Regardless of much rovers have deteriorated in the past couple of decades it would indeed be a sad day for Irish football.
At present rovers are in as bad a state than St. Francis were a few years ago (if not worse) and do have little hope of recovery. Also they have the worse fans in the league, not saying all their fans are bad but they have attracted bad support to the club which has made them one of the country's favourite teams to hate.
There is great tradition associated with the club that has been lost in translation recently. E.g. the atmosphere that used to be generated from the games when rovers and shels both hailed from the Pearse St./Ringsend area was just magic and very treasurable (that was a proper rivalry without the violence the game sees today).
Then both teams moved away but not without leaving behind some memorable matches. :)
I personally am a Shels fan (ence the crest) but the day rovers are gone will be a sad day for irish soccer just like when the memorable drums ( and St. Francis to a lesser extent) went away.
Good luck rovers and all the best with the current situation. :(
It is those very fans that will prove to be the difference between the survival and destruction of this club. How many other clubs in this league have hundreds of supporters to call upon to dig deep into their pockets to bail it out with gaining nothing in return except the satisfaction of saving the sporting institution they love.Quote:
Originally Posted by skitz3
Check Pat Dolan's atricle in today's Star for a much appriciated endorsement.
:rolleyes: was it not him that got pat's into trouble.Quote:
Originally Posted by manic da hoop
Dolan had the cheek to say the UEFA licensing system is "a stunt from Planet PR"..........PAT DOLAN complaining about PR stunts!!!!!!! :eek:
Planet PR is his homeland, so he'd easily spot any natives.
There is no sanction in the rules or the licence against a club being liquidated or going into examinership.
Ringo makes a good point about it not being fair that we racked up loads of debt to pay higher wages than Dublin City. However it is not covered by Eircom League or FAI rules. Life is unfair.
Where it will come back to bite is if the Judge decides to pursue the Directors of Rovers if he believes they knowingly traded recklessly, if they paid directors loans preferentially etc...
However the judge was presented with a choice to do nothing, effectivley allowing a liquidation where creditors would get nothing or to order the Examiner in and try to resolve this. The Club would actually have continued to exist in this scenario and the licence is such a joke that there is no sanction specified even in this case.
Obviously it will cost about €300k to run Rovers during the examinership The 400 Club will pay for the shortfall in revenues during this period.
At the end of this The 400 Club will need to have raised enough to pay the legal fees, have enough in the kitty to take the club forward and enough to pay the creditors off, the precedent being a minimum of 3.5%. The shares would revert to the 400 Club unless another investor comes in for a share , or if he wants it all he would have to refund the 400 club all monies spent.
Of course, and deadly serious here, if the clubs voted us out of the league as punishment or even tried to relegate us, we could just join the Irish League where licence criteria do not apply. This would be ridiculous since it would be a Football Club Saved by its fans that will have satisfied its creditors including the revenue.
Theres no way , they'd vote you out, considering , they all owe money & might find themselves in your position.Is there a legal agreement that the 400 club get the shares, if they keep overs going.? You sound as if your treating this seriously & not emotionally, its going to be hard to raise that type of money, but if its only 3.5% & the ongoing day to day stuff, it could be done. What were the directors wages like for the last few years? Will they still be taking a salary or do they have other jobs?Quote:
Originally Posted by Green Force
I apologise if my post was misunderstood.Quote:
Originally Posted by manic da hoop
What I meant was that SOME rovers fans care very little for the club and would be violent at matches. I agree wholeheartedly with your other comment. The fans that truly love the club are by far the best in the country, bar none. I don't think an other bunch of fans would be as financially dependable as the rovers fans.
Again I apologise if my post came across wrong.
I wouldn't pin too much hopes on this GF. Can't see the Irish League voting in a southern team - particularly one based in Dublin. There's absolutely no parallel to the situation regarding Derry City FC. The FAI couldn't themselves stop you joining the Northern league, but they could put pressure on the IFA to do so if they felt it necessary. Reagrdaless, I can't see you being accepted in by the other clubs in the north.Quote:
Originally Posted by Green Force
If I was Rovers and worst cam to worst, I'd look to set up the club again in junior football via a supporters Trust (i.e. the AFC Wimbledon model). After a couple of seasons of whipping everyone's ass and bringing big crowds to tiny games you'd then have proven yourself worthy of coming back into the league at the next opportunity.
Or you could just follow the Dublin City model of league admission and assume the position of an existing Dublin club with few fans and little prospects. Hmmm.... :D
Quite a serious charge there, and totally false. As WWS pointed out Pats have never even gotten their hands on the grant money allocated to them from the Sports Capital Fund, because we need to raise a certain percentage ourselves (25% I think) which we hadn't got. There were questions raised about an FAI loan to Pats as far as I remember, which is a totally different thing. (i.e it was not money given for one purpose and used for another. ie x 2 , not fraud)Quote:
Originally Posted by OneRedArmy
Gold Cup winner blames council for Shamrock Rovers fiasco
Sunday April 17th 2005
MARTIN FITZPATRICK
THE Irish property developer whose horse won the Cheltenham Gold Cup and who looked for a while like the saviour of Shamrock Rovers FC, said yesterday that the fate of the famous Irish soccer club has been imperilled by a bureaucratic mess at the South Dublin Council. It is a mess that has yet to be explained.
Conor Clarkson told the Sunday Independent that he still cannot understand how his proposal to build the club's hoped-for stadium in Tallaght was subverted. However, he insisted it happened "somewhere at council level".
"If the plans that we were working to - and which would have involved starting building activity on December 14 last - had gone ahead, we would have been erecting the first part of the stadium roofing this weekend. For whatever reason, the baby has been thrown out with the bathwater."
The failure to provide Shamrock Rovers with a home in which to play its games was a leading cause for the collapse of the club into examinership last week. Judge Peter Kelly appointed accountant Neil Hughes as interim examiner of the club which had reported debtsof €2.4m.
Mr Clarkson said he became involved in the Rovers affair last year after some €4.5m had been sunk into the project. South Dublin Council had given a lease to a company called Mulden "without any onus to do anything to the site. There was no timetable, no schedule, no specific performance clause."
Mulden embarked ona joint venture with a company called Sloan Park, linked with Shamrock Rovers directors, and that joint venture was responsible for subsequent expenditure.
Mr Clarkson says he "shook hands" on a deal in which Mulden would sell on the lease to him to complete the construction of a 10,000-12,000-seat stadium. "I was going to put in a pub and a leisure centre to pay for the building of the stadium," he told the Sunday Independent.
"I never had any intention or any interest in building apartments, as some critics have alleged. It was a project that would never have made anyone rich. I was interested in creating a sporting venue and I was happy to let Rovers play in the stadium.
"Suddenly, while I was out of the country, I was told that the whole thing was not going ahead. The Council had changed its mind." Asked if he felt his project could be revived, Conor Clarkson, whose horse Kicking King won the Gold Cup, said the project could be reactivated and completed within 10 months.
© Irish Independent
http://www.unison.ie/irish_independent/ & http://www.unison.ie/
The Council probably sees that they can avail of the grounds to tag on their own commercial property.
Interesting spin on it from Clarkson. Must of been a mishap that he failed to mention that his whatever millions investment had a fairly heafty APR, something like 30% !! Sure whats €7/8 million in dept in a few years when you've f all chance of paying back €2.3 now :rolleyes:
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeraki
No figures were ever agreed. Tony Maguire made them up. One of many lies to the Rovers fans.
I can see both points of view here on whether Shamrock Rovers should survive or not.A football club isn't just a business however it shouldn't be allowed run up huge debts and not pay them off either just because they are a football club and were Ireland's most successful in the past.I wouldn't like to see any team go bust but theres been famous clubs throughout Europe who've totally gone out of business or had to drop out of professional football and reform at amateur level.I think this is the last chance saloon for Rovers to sort things out and hopefully they can.
No they where never agreed, but I know for a fact that Clarkson moving in would leave Rovers with a debt in the years to come that was unpayable. To me the Clarkson deal was like making a deal with the devil. "I'll pay all your debts off now but in 6/7 years time your mine !!"Quote:
Originally Posted by Green Force
Monday April 25th 2005
THE appointment of Neil Hughes as examiner to Shamrock Rovers is expected to be confirmed in the High Court this morning.
The full hearing will take place today with the club's creditors entitled to representation at the hearing with the Dublin club owing €2.36m.
Two weeks ago Hughes was charged by the High Court with coming up with a plan that would enable creditors recover their debts and ensure the future viability of the club by attracting investors and hiring a full-time commercial manager.
He will deliver a report to the High Court today during which he is expected to outline the considerable amount of goodwill there is towards Rovers in their present plight.
© Irish Independent
http://www.unison.ie/irish_independent/ & http://www.unison.ie/
Rovers can be saved, court told
THE High Court was told yesterday that there is "cautious optimism" that an arrangement can be put in place to ensure the survival of the company that runs Shamrock Rovers Football Club.
But the Football Association of Ireland (FAI) is seeking further clarification in relation to financial information it was given relating to the club.
During an application for the appointment of an examiner to Branvard Ltd, trading as Shamrock Rovers, it was stated that there were seven separate parties interested in investing in the club.
Branvard has debts of €2.36m with more than €540,000 due to the Revenue Commissioners in respect of PAYE and PRSI arrears.
Ms Justice Mary Laffoy appointed accountant Neil Hughes as examiner to Branvard Ltd.
Following yesterday's appointment, the judge allowed 60 days from April 11 last, when the petition to appoint an examiner was presented, for a survival package to be drawn up.
In his affidavit, Mr Hughes said he had made "significant progress" in satisfying the conditions identified as being necessary to secure the survival of the company.
Meanwhile, High Court proceedings in which Shamrock Rovers was challenging South Dublin Co Council's refusal to extend a grant of permission to allow completion of the club's new 10,000 seater stadium in Tallaght were struck out yesterday with no order at the request of the club.
John Maddock
© Irish Independent
http://www.unison.ie/irish_independent/ & http://www.unison.ie/
Rovers facing expulsion fear
Tuesday April 26th 2005
SHAMROCK ROVERS are facing possible expulsion from the eircom League after the FAI unearthed several discrepancies in their application for a 2005 club licence.
Rovers have until tomorrow to explain why the balance sheets submitted as part of their audited accounts for 2003 and 2004 are absolutely identical - as are the figures for tangible and intangible fixed assets.
The club could also face questions from the Office of Corporate Enforcement as the audited accounts were filed with the Companies Office.
And, to add to Rovers' worries, the FAI has asked them to explain the relationship of their company secretary and director Paul Boyle with their auditors, J P O'Donohoe & Company, who are based in Waterford.
The FAI is also looking for a detailed explanation of a €900,000 loan Rovers received from Slonepark, the company set up to construct and operate their proposed new stadium in Tallaght.
The FAI became aware of the discrepancy following a meeting with examiner Neil Hughes at which he showed them the accounts prepared for the High Court by an independent auditor.
The association subsequently wrote to the examiner and Rovers chairman Tony Maguire and the matter was mentioned in the High Court yesterday when Justice Mary Laffoy approved the appointment of Hughes. She expressed concern at the FAI's letter which was read out in court and requested that the High Court be immediately informed of any sanction taken by the FAI that could affect the survival prospects of Rovers as a going concern.
The examiner said after yesterday's hearing that the licence question must be resolved if he is to secure the investment needed to ensure the survival of the club.
If it's found that Rovers has violated any of its club licence obligations, there is a whole range of penalties open to the FAI - including expulsion.
Last night Maguire said that Rovers would be seeking a personal hearing with the FAI to explain the discrepancies in the accounts and insisted that no attempt had been made to deceive the licensing department. "There was an error made in the filing of the accounts," he said.
Maguire added that Boyle was not involved in any way with the compilation of the club's accounts. He was unaware of the exact nature of Boyle's relationship, if any, with the company's auditors.
The Slonepark loan, he said, was an old one which had been inherited by the current directors.
Gerry McDermott
© Irish Independent
http://www.unison.ie/irish_independent/ & http://www.unison.ie/
I thought i heard Roddy say last night on eL weekly that he was looking to bring a couple of forwards into the team. Was i dreaming?
:confused:
This proves once and for all what a *&^%$ magoo is. "An error made........." You are the error magoo you muppet.
But what about the FAI? Why didnt they actually look at the accounts WHEN THEY WERE HANDED IN instead of now FFS?!!!
I sincerely doubt that we will get thrown out considering that it would result in fixture chaos and the FAI do not want anymore bad news. Sorry ringo! BTW were you THE fan in the stand at richmond?!!
Also if you carkies can bring more than 50 on friday we would appreciate it :D
KOH
I assume they just checked to see if accounts were prepared. They wouldn't have that much of a qualification in accountancy and auditing (granted, I presume there was a qualified person on the committee?). That said, it does show up how flimsy the whole UEFA Licencing thing is - most clubs make an effort, but what's the point when you can get away with the likes of this? Now that the Companies Office and the ODCE are on Rovers' case, it's made the FAI aware that there's a problem. ODCE is not someone you want to get on the wrong side of either. But Rovers' auditors have a lot to answer for here as well...Quote:
Originally Posted by NY Hoop
we usually do :p Seriously though, I don't think we'll have a great crowd up on friday because most people are waiting to go up on the monday for shelsQuote:
Originally Posted by NY Hoop
I think would be a disaster if eL clubs were to turn on one of their own & vite them out of the league.
Some seriously dodgy goings on with rovers accounts which is why i believe Directors should need a licence to rule eL clubs. Rovers Director boyos should be given 10 year bans from involvementw ith irish football.