Republic of Ireland V Denmark - Saturday, 13th October 2018 - UEFA Nations League

Not sure if I agree with jbyrne on this one. I generally don't mind the performance if we get a result. I didn't expect us to win so I wasn't hugely disappointed with a draw but the performance from an attacking point of view was one of the worst I have EVER seen following Ireland. Three shots in the whole of 90 minutes in a home game (i.e. a shot ever 30 minutes). Even against Germany we had 5.

By the end of the game we only had one recognised central midfielder on the pitch. Are we now a Liechtenstein or Malta who only play for a draw against higher rated sides even when at home? We didn't press them. We sat back. Even McClean barely had a run at them. Yes, we kept a clean sheet but at what price? The "signing section" even lost their voice until awoken from their slumber in the last 5 minutes. We brought on a full back to replace Arter if I remember correctly. It was stultifyingly boring.

But eaten bread is soon forgotten and we move on to Wales who are also without their one world class player. Please put them under pressure. Do not respect them. Let's try and get the old tempo back. Don't allow their back 4 (5)(3) whatever time on the ball. I am not bothered whether it's hoof ball or poof ball or whatever. What I want is raise the roof ball.

It was poor on Saturday but unsurprisingly so, which in turn has led me to be surprised by the reaction. It was always going to be a backs to the wall to protect our goal and hope to nick one from a set piece type approach.

I think the 5-3-2 worked ok though as others have said it does not suit McClean. It is difficult to accomodate all of O'Neill's 'undroppables' in such a formation. I would consider the undroppables (assuming fitness) as:

Randolph
Coleman
McClean
Duffy
Hendrick
Walters

Is O'Dowda now one too? I hope not. Maybe Brady when fit meets the criteria, and Christie seems to be edging into this territory - certainly when Coleman is not available.

Saturday night was baaaaad. Even without Ericsson we were outplayed for most of the game by a very average Danish side. solid enough in defence to be fair but nothing in midfield and, despite Long working his socks off we created almost nothing. seemed as if both teams were happy enough to share the points.
a bad result on Tuesday and I think MO'N should consider his position.

We are going nowhere with O Neill, I'd love to see a change and a manager brought in that tries to play football.
At the moment O Neill is managing to combine terrible football with terrible results.
At least if we played football and had bad results you could enjoy the game.

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Originally Posted by brine3

Why even bother taking part in football tournaments if we don't try to play football? It's like showing up at the Olympic Diving competition and doing cannonballs. You'll get nowhere. .

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This is my fav analogy of Irelands current "football" team......Kudos

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Originally Posted by OwlsFan

We brought on a full back to replace Arter if I remember correctly. It was stultifyingly boring.

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Robinson came on for Arter, made a very positive contribution

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Originally Posted by zero

It was poor on Saturday but unsurprisingly so, which in turn has led me to be surprised by the reaction. It was always going to be a backs to the wall to protect our goal and hope to nick one from a set piece type approach.

I think the 5-3-2 worked ok though as others have said it does not suit McClean. It is difficult to accomodate all of O'Neill's 'undroppables' in such a formation. I would consider the undroppables (assuming fitness) as:

Randolph
Coleman
McClean
Duffy
Hendrick
Walters

Is O'Dowda now one too? I hope not. Maybe Brady when fit meets the criteria, and Christie seems to be edging into this territory - certainly when Coleman is not available.

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I don’t want to be too pessimistic about Walters but are we going to see much more of Walters in an Irish jersey ? Serious Injury , Old particularly for a forward ....It ain’t looking good .

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Originally Posted by seanfhear

I don’t want to be too pessimistic about Walters but are we going to see much more of Walters in an Irish jersey ? Serious Injury , Old particularly for a forward ....It ain’t looking good .

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Agreed, I added him as he had been a guaranteed starter up til this point. I would expect we'll see him once or twice more off the bench but that's about it...

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Originally Posted by sbgawa

We are going nowhere with O Neill, I'd love to see a change and a manager brought in that tries to play football.
At the moment O Neill is managing to combine terrible football with terrible results.
At least if we played football and had bad results you could enjoy the game.

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Fully agree. Even allowing for the limited resources (player wise) we have the current set up is dire. Time for a fresh face to try and maximize what (little) we have.

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Originally Posted by Cathalsmart

Either our players are as bad as the players from San Marino, Andorra, Lichtenstein, Malta etc or it’s the embarrassingly amateurish coaching staff, take you’re pick. The free kick that Cyrus Christie was supposed to receiving in the 2nd half sums up this coaching staff.

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Our players are as bad as, and I would suggest worse off technically in many cases, than the players of those countries you mention. That is to say that if you put them in a tight spot where optimal ball control is needed or a congested midfield where quick and incisive passing is needed, our lads, most of them anyway would come out second best. Noticable on Saturday that 3 of our best technical players, Williams, Horgan and Judge (not sure about his injury status) were not used.

And the free kick you are talking about - I know there were 3 they screwed up - neither O' Neill nor Keane was responsible for that poor execution

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Originally Posted by mark12345

Our players are as bad as, and I would suggest worse off technically in many cases, than the players of those countries you mention. That is to say that if you put them in a tight spot where optimal ball control is needed or a congested midfield where quick and incisive passing is needed, our lads, most of them anyway would come out second best. Noticable on Saturday that 3 of our best technical players, Williams, Horgan and Judge (not sure about his injury status) were not used.

And the free kick you are talking about - I know there were 3 they screwed up - neither O' Neill nor Keane was responsible for that poor execution

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If they were they wouldn’t be playing professionally... stop embarrassing yourself please.

Cathal, attack the post, not the poster

https://afalsefirstxi.blogspot.com/2...e-danish.html

Usual blog on match for anyone interested.

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Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

Cathal, attack the post, not the poster

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Am I attacking the poster? I’m helping him not dig this hole any deeper.
Fair to say he doesn’t watch San Marino, Andorra, Lichtenstein regularly enough yet is able to say their players (who are mostly amateur) are on par with players we have playing Championship level at least...cmon I know there are idiotic posts on here all the time but surely this is a new low?

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Originally Posted by Cathalsmart

If they were they wouldn’t be playing professionally... stop embarrassing yourself please.

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Embarrassing myself? Do you mean like those players who played on Saturday embarrassed themselves?
Just to follow your logic - England had 'players playing professionally' between 1966 and 2018.
It has taken them half a century to realize that the 'up and at em every ball a long ball approach' is only for the cavemen.

Let me go through the list of the players who played on Saturday.

Randolph - Decent keeper. Could also adapt to the modern game by offering himself as an outlet pass which keepers at top clubs are now doing.

Duffy - Hulk of a lad. You won't beat him in the air and he poses a threat from set pieces, but not equipped to build moves from the back a la the modern day intl defender.
Kevin Long - A lesser version of Duffy with less experience and ability at this point in his career. Not likely to set the heather blazing by the looks of things.
Keogh - Enthusiastic and commited to cause, but technical ability is not his strong point. Feels comfortable, like Long just belting it down Route 1.

Hendrick - Not creative in the least. Massive disappointment in a timid and collectively worthless midfield
Arter - Tries hard and appears quite purposeful at times. But his worth, whatever it is, is stifled in such surroundings.
Christie - Weak when attacked. Has shown some ability when going forward, but technical ability limits him also.
Doherty - An ok performance on Saturday. Looks promising but too early to predict his future.

McClean - Heart on his sleeve as always. Has ability to take on a player but rarely in sync with teammates because he's a lone wolf trying to gin up performance levels among them.
A player from a bygone era, just like the team he plays for.
Shane Long - Does really well in the air for a man his size, but does literally nothing else. Hasn't scored for a long time - would be nice if he could even miss a few chances at this stage.
Should not have started for Ireland for this or several games before it.
O'Dowda - Promising player. Can take on and beat Championship defenders. Some potential there, but getting lost in sea of mediocrity at this point.

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Originally Posted by mark12345

Embarrassing myself? Do you mean like those players who played on Saturday embarrassed themselves?
Just to follow your logic - England had 'players playing professionally' between 1966 and 2018.
It has taken them half a century to realize that the 'up and at em every ball a long ball approach' is only for the cavemen.

Let me go through the list of the players who played on Saturday.

Randolph - Decent keeper. Could also adapt to the modern game by offering himself as an outlet pass which keepers at top clubs are now doing.

Duffy - Hulk of a lad. You won't beat him in the air and he poses a threat from set pieces, but not equipped to build moves from the back a la the modern day intl defender.
Kevin Long - A lesser version of Duffy with less experience and ability at this point in his career. Not likely to set the heather blazing by the looks of things.
Keogh - Enthusiastic and commited to cause, but technical ability is not his strong point. Feels comfortable, like Long just belting it down Route 1.

Hendrick - Not creative in the least. Massive disappointment in a timid and collectively worthless midfield
Arter - Tries hard and appears quite purposeful at times. But his worth, whatever it is, is stifled in such surroundings.
Christie - Weak when attacked. Has shown some ability when going forward, but technical ability limits him also.
Doherty - An ok performance on Saturday. Looks promising but too early to predict his future.

McClean - Heart on his sleeve as always. Has ability to take on a player but rarely in sync with teammates because he's a lone wolf trying to gin up performance levels among them.
A player from a bygone era, just like the team he plays for.
Shane Long - Does really well in the air for a man his size, but does literally nothing else. Hasn't scored for a long time - would be nice if he could even miss a few chances at this stage.
Should not have started for Ireland for this or several games before it.
O'Dowda - Promising player. Can take on and beat Championship defenders. Some potential there, but getting lost in sea of mediocrity at this point.

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Now do the same for the San Marino team that started tonight.

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Originally Posted by mark12345

Embarrassing myself? Do you mean like those players who played on Saturday embarrassed themselves?
Just to follow your logic - England had 'players playing professionally' between 1966 and 2018.
It has taken them half a century to realize that the 'up and at em every ball a long ball approach' is only for the cavemen.

Let me go through the list of the players who played on Saturday.

Randolph - Decent keeper. Could also adapt to the modern game by offering himself as an outlet pass which keepers at top clubs are now doing.

Duffy - Hulk of a lad. You won't beat him in the air and he poses a threat from set pieces, but not equipped to build moves from the back a la the modern day intl defender.
Kevin Long - A lesser version of Duffy with less experience and ability at this point in his career. Not likely to set the heather blazing by the looks of things.
Keogh - Enthusiastic and commited to cause, but technical ability is not his strong point. Feels comfortable, like Long just belting it down Route 1.

Hendrick - Not creative in the least. Massive disappointment in a timid and collectively worthless midfield
Arter - Tries hard and appears quite purposeful at times. But his worth, whatever it is, is stifled in such surroundings.
Christie - Weak when attacked. Has shown some ability when going forward, but technical ability limits him also.
Doherty - An ok performance on Saturday. Looks promising but too early to predict his future.

McClean - Heart on his sleeve as always. Has ability to take on a player but rarely in sync with teammates because he's a lone wolf trying to gin up performance levels among them.
A player from a bygone era, just like the team he plays for.
Shane Long - Does really well in the air for a man his size, but does literally nothing else. Hasn't scored for a long time - would be nice if he could even miss a few chances at this stage.
Should not have started for Ireland for this or several games before it.
O'Dowda - Promising player. Can take on and beat Championship defenders. Some potential there, but getting lost in sea of mediocrity at this point.

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Thanks for that, could you please go through the San Marino,Andorran etc squads tell me about the players who are equal/better than our players, I genuinely and entrigued to find out how they are unable to pick up a professional contract yet the Irish players can.

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Originally Posted by mark12345

Embarrassing myself? Do you mean like those players who played on Saturday embarrassed themselves?
Just to follow your logic - England had 'players playing professionally' between 1966 and 2018.
It has taken them half a century to realize that the 'up and at em every ball a long ball approach' is only for the cavemen.

Let me go through the list of the players who played on Saturday.

Randolph - Decent keeper. Could also adapt to the modern game by offering himself as an outlet pass which keepers at top clubs are now doing.

Duffy - Hulk of a lad. You won't beat him in the air and he poses a threat from set pieces, but not equipped to build moves from the back a la the modern day intl defender.
Kevin Long - A lesser version of Duffy with less experience and ability at this point in his career. Not likely to set the heather blazing by the looks of things.
Keogh - Enthusiastic and commited to cause, but technical ability is not his strong point. Feels comfortable, like Long just belting it down Route 1.

Hendrick - Not creative in the least. Massive disappointment in a timid and collectively worthless midfield
Arter - Tries hard and appears quite purposeful at times. But his worth, whatever it is, is stifled in such surroundings.
Christie - Weak when attacked. Has shown some ability when going forward, but technical ability limits him also.
Doherty - An ok performance on Saturday. Looks promising but too early to predict his future.

McClean - Heart on his sleeve as always. Has ability to take on a player but rarely in sync with teammates because he's a lone wolf trying to gin up performance levels among them.
A player from a bygone era, just like the team he plays for.
Shane Long - Does really well in the air for a man his size, but does literally nothing else. Hasn't scored for a long time - would be nice if he could even miss a few chances at this stage.
Should not have started for Ireland for this or several games before it.
O'Dowda - Promising player. Can take on and beat Championship defenders. Some potential there, but getting lost in sea of mediocrity at this point.

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When you have no alternatives then you’d have to play to their strengths . Losing Rice is devastating at this stage even though turning him into the Messiah was probably misplaced . We probably need two quality ball playing midfielders to play the way we would like to play . Sure every team could do with two like that .

After the O’Neill / Keane era is over we may have to admit that if we want to play watchable football then we have to understand that being within a shout of qualifying will be a long shot . If we want to have watchable football we have to realise thereby very well be repercussions .

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Originally Posted by seanfhear

When you have no alternatives then you’d have to play to their strengths . Losing Rice is devastating at this stage even though turning him into the Messiah was probably misplaced . We probably need two quality ball playing midfielders to play the way we would like to play . Sure every team could do with two like that .

After the O’Neill / Keane era is over we may have to admit that if we want to play watchable football then we have to understand that being within a shout of qualifying will be a long shot . If we want to have watchable football we have to realise thereby very well be repercussions .

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How are we playing to our strengths? before this game we conceded 9 goals in 2 games and the only reason Denmark didnt score was they were missing Eriksen.

I dont care about how watchable our football is as long as we are playing football. I dont know what ****e we are playing right now but it sure as hell isnt football.

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Originally Posted by seanfhear

After the O’Neill / Keane era is over we may have to admit that if we want to play watchable football then we have to understand that being within a shout of qualifying will be a long shot . If we want to have watchable football we have to realise thereby very well be repercussions .

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Unfortunately I think this is a real possibility too. We could have Stephen Kenny trying to introduce a nice brand of football and all of a sudden those disappointing home draws are feeble, soft centred defeats. We've appointed two managers who I think the majority of people were incredibly excited by and both have decided that a cave man approach is our best chance of being competitive. Maybe that's just a reflection of where both were/are in their own managerial careers, set in their ways, outdated, lazy, etc. but I think it's worrying nonetheless. These guys aren't as clueless as some would have you believe.

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Originally Posted by DeLorean

We've appointed two managers who I think the majority of people were incredibly excited by and both have decided that a cave man approach is our best chance of being competitive. Maybe that's just a reflection of where both were/are in their own managerial careers, set in their ways, outdated, lazy, etc. but I think it's worrying nonetheless. These guys aren't as clueless as some would have you believe.

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I've never had a problem with the caveman approach when necessary. Away to Germany? Yep, put as many people behind the ball as possible and hoof it all night - it's our best chance of a result.

My issue when we adopt that same approach against teams who don't merit it, and when it isn't our best chance of a result. There'n no need to concede territory and possession to Georgia at home, but we did it anyway.

Different teams present different challenges, and need to be prepared for differently. A manager who has one way of playing regardless of the opposition isn't doing their job properly.

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Originally Posted by osarusan

I've never had a problem with the caveman approach when necessary. Away to Germany? Yep, put as many people behind the ball as possible and hoof it all night - it's our best chance of a result.

My issue when we adopt that same approach against teams who don't merit it, and when it isn't our best chance of a result. There'n no need to concede territory and possession to Georgia at home, but we did it anyway.

Different teams present different challenges, and need to be prepared for differently. A manager who has one way of playing regardless of the opposition isn't doing their job properly.

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Black and white as usual. I’d believe this argument if the two managers appointed were known for playing attacking football easy on the eye, neither are.

Still can’t believe after the abomination on Saturday anyone is actually trying to defend O’Neill, the stuff we did than I’d expect no less from a local team down the street, not an international team full of premier league and championship players managed by someone on millions.

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Originally Posted by osarusan

I've never had a problem with the caveman approach when necessary. Away to Germany? Yep, put as many people behind the ball as possible and hoof it all night - it's our best chance of a result.

My issue when we adopt that same approach against teams who don't merit it, and when it isn't our best chance of a result. There'n no need to concede territory and possession to Georgia at home, but we did it anyway.

Different teams present different challenges, and need to be prepared for differently. A manager who has one way of playing regardless of the opposition isn't doing their job properly.

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How much of that is down to the players and how much is down to the manager? We played Georgia twice at home, and although the scoreline was the same there was a huge contrast in the two performances. The night when Walters got the winner it was a tough slog, but we always looked the more likely and controlled the match far better. The night Coleman got the winner we were dreadful, they dominated the game and we were very lucky. I'm sure O'Neill, like the rest of us, would prefer our performance in the former example.

I don't think we approached either game in the same way as we did against Germany, we were just completely out-footballed in the second one (and in the Tblisi draw). Georgia went to Cardiff and dominated a far better footballing side than us too for long spells, it should be said. I doubt this was a deliberate tactic by Chris Coleman.

We are not the only team who are having a mare guys, look at Turkey, Holland, Cech Republic, Bulgaria etc

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Originally Posted by Diggs246

We are not the only team who are having a mare guys, look at Turkey, Holland, Cech Republic, Bulgaria etc

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Not to mention the two nations who seem to have become the barometer by which all things are judged, Iceland & Northern Ireland. Exactly zero points between them in their six matches so far. Northern Ireland haven't scored a goal away from home in over a year and Iceland, granted in Group A, lost 6-0 to Switzerland.

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Originally Posted by Cathalsmart

Am I attacking the poster? I’m helping him not dig this hole any deeper.
Fair to say he doesn’t watch San Marino, Andorra, Lichtenstein regularly enough yet is able to say their players (who are mostly amateur) are on par with players we have playing Championship level at least...cmon I know there are idiotic posts on here all the time but surely this is a new low?

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I've seen those teams as much as the next person Cathal - which is very little. However when I've seen the likes of those teams what has struck me is exactly that. Many of their players are far better technically than ours and they play as a team more cohesively than ours. They at least try to play football which is the point of them being there (as someone pointed out earlier on this post). They invariably lose their games which is down to their populations / pool of players they have to choose from. I bet however I could walk onto the training ground of any of those teams and pick out a midfielder who can create far more than Jeff Hendrick or Glen Whelan before him (not difficult) and a center back who is more in sync with him than is Shane Duffy or Richard Keogh. Increase those teams above slightly in population, coaching structure and pool of players and you get Iceland. Increase it a little more than that and you get Sweden.

In regard to the management team you seem to be hung up on them and blinded by that fact. For full disclosure I called for Martin O'Neill to never be allowed near another Irish team following the Austria home game (he took two points which belonged to us that day and just threw them into the wind via his team selection). Fast forward to Tiblisi where we scored after 4 minutes and then gave up. That is not a figurative term - we literally gave up (stood in our own half and did nothing for 86 minutes). I have never seen anything like that in my life in any game of football in any part of the globe. I was still on the O'Neill must go kick at that point so I wanted him out even more at that time. But when you stop to think about it, where does the responsibility of the players start and end? Was there not one of them on the pitch in Tiblisi that night who said to his team mates: "Come on lads lets have a go at them, let's try to hit them on the counter and finish this thing off." I am no fan of O'Neill anymore but it has gone beyond that point, way beyond.

You are using the words 'idiotic' and saying this post is 'a new low'. I would agree with those words if you applied it to the current Irish team. The real proof is in the pudding Cathal. What I mean by this is that I have followed this Irish team since the early 1970's. We were evolving back then and there was journey to be travelled. However with Saturday's performance and those mentioned above, among others, there is a pattern which is very worrying about ths Ireland team. We have been left behind in the departure lounge. But this is something I said 20 years ago and you and I will be on here still debating the point in 20 years time if things don't change drastically.

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Originally Posted by DeLorean

How much of that is down to the players and how much is down to the manager?

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I think a lot of it is down to the manager and how he sets his team up. Much more than is down to the players.

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Originally Posted by DeLorean

I don't think we approached either game in the same way as we did against Germany, we were just completely out-footballed in the second one (and in the Tblisi draw).

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I think the similarity is that we were overly conservative and cautious and didn't attack in enough numbers to hold on to the ball - we gave it away very cheaply and as a result were dominated by a team that were not afraid of holding on to it. Being needlessly conservative is a hallmark of O'Neill, in my opinion, just like Trap before him.

I don't think it's a deliberate tactic, but I do think being 'out-footballed' is a fairly predictable outcome of such tactics.

Yeah, on the balance I wouldn't disagree with that.

O'Neill is apparently known for springing selection surprises on players minutes before kickoff. Done it all throughout his career apparently.

I just watched the youtube clips of Jack Byrne for Cambuur vs both Ajax and PSV. It nearly made me weep. Is he even getting a game at Kilmarnock(?)?

Posted here rather than in his own thread because it's in the context of how we play, and how Sisto and Allen played against us in the last week.

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

I just watched the youtube clips of Jack Byrne for Cambuur vs both Ajax and PSV. It nearly made me weep. Is he even getting a game at Kilmarnock(?)?

Posted here rather than in his own thread because it's in the context of how we play, and how Sisto and Allen played against us in the last week.

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Sure we have Crowley instead!

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

I just watched the youtube clips of Jack Byrne for Cambuur vs both Ajax and PSV. It nearly made me weep. Is he even getting a game at Kilmarnock(?)?

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Has come off the bench twice, maybe three times in the last month or so.

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

I just watched the youtube clips of Jack Byrne for Cambuur vs both Ajax and PSV. It nearly made me weep. Is he even getting a game at Kilmarnock(?)?

Posted here rather than in his own thread because it's in the context of how we play, and how Sisto and Allen played against us in the last week.

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This one? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JySkquVshmA

Imagine we had someone doing that in the last two games! Controlling the ball, playing zippy passes, passing the ball out wide when it's on. And he's at Kilmarnock now.

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Originally Posted by CraftyToePoke

Has come off the bench twice, maybe three times in the last month or so.

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twice, and left on the bench twice: http://irish-abroad.appspot.com/Play...9&seasonID=148

Byrne possibly no 100% fit yet as he joined Killie late from Oldham where he was frozen out

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