Good move for him. The Championship is a far better league.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eirambler
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Good move for him. The Championship is a far better league.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eirambler
A Championship move with a newly promoted side. Not bad for him. Maybe his club career hasn’t gone to plan but I actually didn’t mind the look of him when he was involved with Ireland.
He didn't do much wrong in an Ireland jersey. Would love to see him get another chance. It's a good move for him.
Only 5 wins all season for an appallingly awful bottom-of the-table Wycombe side, and yet you just know that Horgan - not even a guaranteed a starter in that team - will be more or less the first name in the starting XI in Serbia. That's where we are right now.
So depressing.
I doubt Horgan will start against Serbia. But using him as a fall guy for our current up front ineptness is unfair. He was excellent against England and far from the worst against Bulgaria - out last two games. Neither Connolly nor O'Dowda - or any other forward - have come near either of those performances. He certainly isn't the future - but he doesn't deserved to be dismissed. If the England performance was a showcase of his ability - then his sitting on the Wycombe bench is a reflection of crap club management that has them heading for League One.Quote:
Originally Posted by Trequartista20
It's nonsense to say he's the first name in the starting XI as well. He might start, but Coleman/Doherty/Randolph/etc would be higher in the "first name on the teamsheet" stakes.
I wouldn’t be too surprised if he starts but that’s as much to do with the fact that, as of today, Connolly, O’Dowda, McClean and Brady are all injured. That just leaves Robinson and Horgan, followed by a group of league 1 or LOI wingers: Curtis, Harness, Duffy...
I’d imagine a front three of Idah, Connolly and Robinson will start if fit
For us it's unrealistic to line up with a front 3 in the first away game of the campaign against a stronger team.
We don't have the quality in the rest of the pitch to support that.
'Excellent'? Good grief, you're easily pleased. We simply didn't turn up against England, failing to lay a glove on them. And most of our problems came down the right-side, where he was playing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Snapshot
I don't believe that's necessarily the case at all. It's unlikely that both Coleman and Doherty will play, and especially given Randolph's rumoured disaffection, and his struggles with the ball at his feet, I wouldn't be at all surprised if Kelleher started.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
Horgan has started the last several matches, and will very likely start in Serbia in my view.
I would agree that Horgan is likely to start and would have fancied his chances even without the inavailability of others.
That being said, I don’t see where the issue is in him doing so he is playing regular Championship football and has been one of our better players in the Nations League and England games.
Does ge deserve to be a starter for Ireland in a more general sense? Probably not.
Does he deserve to be a starter at the minute? Probably.
In a relative sense, he was excellent against England. He did turn up and he did play well. Credit where it's due.Quote:
Originally Posted by Trequartista20
I mean, if you're going to assume three weeks out that everyone's going to be injured or is randomly unhappy, then I guess you can concoct a situation where Horgan is thr first name on the teamsheet. It's not really a rational way of doing things though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Trequartista20
I will agree that starting Horgan reflects badly on our squad at present. That's not his fault though; he's done reasonably well when given the chance
I wonder why we, as supporters, haven't managed to adjust our expectations. Horgan is getting a few games in the Championship and the potential for him to start for the national side is met with disappointment. Supporters are also keen to point out when a young players isn't going too well or someone is dropped. I'm not sure why people have to be fatalistic about our present options - we haven't had it great for a long, long time and I would think by now that many would have realised our standards and grown a tad more accepting.
I love coming on here and getting the news about players and their progress or even stagnation if that needs highlighting. But I find it very tough when the negative cloud looms a bit and complaints are flooding about the lack of progression of our younger players, transfers not working out perfectly or players being on the bench.
Horgan isn't very good, he's not young and can't get into what is the undisputed worst team in the Championship. There's no reason to get excited or optimistic about his inclusion in an important qualifier.
The fact that someone is saying he was excellent against England is an indicative of how bad things are.
My point is not directly relevant to Horgan and is more of a broader observation regarding the context for our footballers. But you have used Horgan to support your assertion regarding "how bad things are" - and this type of post crops up a bit in Horgan's thread and it's so negative.Quote:
Originally Posted by ColourfulPeanut
Each to their own I suppose and all views are valid views. But if a fella struggling to get into a struggling Championship side is getting the odd appearance for us and that is prompting posters to say we aren't as good as we should be, then when will posters start to re-calibrate the level we should be at.
Let's be honest here, Horgan's recent involvement has been mainly down to management familiarity, he didn't get a look in under the last manager and if he was still in post he wouldn't be getting a look in now either.
He was largely unsuccessful at Preston and Hibs and he's not doing a whole lot at Wycombe either, he's 28 and he's not going to get any better than he already is. Was good in the league of Ireland, but that has to be taken in the context of it being basically the equivalent of the National League in England if we're being honest. Has done nothing much of note since he left Ireland.
Realistically, even with our current lack of high quality options, he probably shouldn't be making a 23 or 25 man Ireland squad.
For me Connolly, Robinson, McClean, Browne, O'Dowda, Brady and McGeady would all be ahead of him for starters and I'd probably be giving the likes of Harness and Shodipo a call up to an extended squad before for a look before I'd bother with Horgan again.
Its a fair enough point, much is made of having Coleman & Doherty but we once had Carr / Kelly / Finnan ( a CL winner ) and Kenna who won a league title at Blackburn but often couldn't get in the squad, for that spot alone. That was before you looked at the quality in other positions throughout those years, quality we really and simply do not have these days. The Scots have Robertson & Tierney arguably a better pair of players for example, but they are weak in the key positions like ourselves and overall struggle also.Quote:
Originally Posted by Olé Olé
This puts huge focus on our emerging players, that and the fact that we don't have huge quantities of those to talk about anyway. Pressure comes early in an Ireland shirt basically these days. Hence needing Molumby / Idah / Parrott / Obafemi etc to take to first team football like a duck to water which isn't happening and in truth was never likely to en masse.
Criticism is always there, when I talk to people but an answer to - well what would you be happy with ? - isn't always so forthcoming. Much of the core fan base now, were raised on Euro 88 to WC 94 golden age and those seem to be the expectations regardless of player pool limitations and its not inclined to drop from that.
Irish fans have also zoomed in on one player as a symptom of all that's wrong with Irish football. It used to be Glenn Whelan, for years before him it was John O'Shea. Hell, it was even Robbie at one point. It's just that, whereas before at least it was a Premier League player singled out for criticism, now it's players considerably short of that level.Quote:
Originally Posted by ColourfulPeanut
I don't mean to target Horgan because I feel that's unfair because I don't think he's ever not given his 100% for us . I just don't think he should be anywhere near the team even in the sad state things are now. He's a limited player and likely to have minimum impact given his age and trajectory. I'd rather chance the arm with untested younger players like Harness, Shodipo or Ogbene as impact subs to see what we have to supplement Connolly, Robinson and O'Dowda.
I don't think we have a realistic chance of qualifying for 2022 and don't see Horgan featuring in the next campaign into his 30s, so would rather see some new talent be integrated into the squad.
Expectation management is a lost art. Interesting reads by yourself and Ole Ole.Quote:
Originally Posted by CraftyToePoke
If everbody was fit and firing I wouldn't have Horgan in the squad unless he really stepped up his performance level, but for various reasons he's been in the squad on merit despite his level in recent times, and he's done OK. Even Kenny didn't select him in the wider squad until circumstances dictated it, so I don't know why he's such a major point of discussion.Quote:
Originally Posted by ColourfulPeanut
I'm not understanding the "can't get into Wycombe team" remarks. Only two players in their squad have made more appearances than him this season in the Championship.
It's more a recent thing I think. He has only started one of their last four games. He has also only played the full 90 twice in their last 13 games. So while he has made a lot of appearances, he hasn't been a recent starter and is rarely seen as being important enough to play the full 90. And that also needs to be taken in the context that he plays for Wycombe, who are terrible.
I don’t think he’s really a 90 minute man. That’s fine for a winger and doesn’t necessarily reflect his over quality. He’s a guy who’s game is based on sprinting and speed and pressing. As he tires, he becomes less effective. Plenty of really good wingers in the same boat. It’s probably the position where it’s most common...Quote:
Originally Posted by Eirambler
There’s also an abundance of good ‘off the bench’ game changing wingers ala Shodipo.
Don’t see it as an issue at all. Generally half your players in the front 5/6 midfielders and attackers will be taken off in a game.
Failed to start today, or indeed any of Wycombe's last 9 matches, as their relegation was finally confirmed. There'll be various factors involved, but it's worth noting that these 9 matches coincided with Wycombe's best form this season, with 5 wins and only 2 defeats.
He's not good enough for the Championship. However, I can see him being more involved next season in League 1.
The Kenny favourite moves to Stevenage on loan.
Good to know our time wasn't wasted with all those call-ups and caps during a supposed 'rebuild'.
Hasn't really worked out for Horgan at a decent level, but he went over and gave it a good go. Will have made some decent money at Preston and Hibs. Very unlikely we'll see him for Ireland again, he wasn't up to that level but we've capped worse players all the same and it was during a period of real weakness that he came in.
I actually think he always did pretty ok for Ireland
Yep - seemed to raise his game for us above and beyond the level he seemed to be at. Never minded seeing him come on. Technically got an assist in his last game too; lovely pass to Robinson in Azerbaijan for his second, though Robinson/the deflection/a dodgy keeper (in that descending order) had more to do with it than the pass really.
My recollection was that he did OK off the bench a few times but when he started a couple of games it was like being a man down.
Disagree. He was one of the few bright sparks against England in Wembley
I would say he's done fairly well for himself. Near 200 appearances between SPL, Championship and League One and 17 caps for Ireland, all inside six years.
If that's the barometer for "not really working out" then we're setting a fairly high bar for success as a professional footballer.
I've mixed feelings on horgan, like so many others when he was sprung from the bench he did well, and few of the bright sparks in many games, especially under Kenny, but the more he played the less effective he became and his crossing never found targets maybe he was a few years ahead of an Evan Ferguson ; ). That said I was always happy to see his name going up whenever we needed something different, that might have been because of what I saw him do at Dundalk on the big nights.
I've said in the past that it takes 10 games in to get a realistic feel for a player, I mean that from a Positive -> Negative bounce because it usually never goes the other way. I temper expectations based off of that because it's proven right over and over. McClean another great example of that.
Consistency is a word often used myself included but again it should be the Irish football forum thesaurus of "just not good enough" or "not at the (requisite)level".
If you were setting the barometer for yourself, or for a lad you saw 10 metres from you down at Finn Park then that's great. The reality is different though but well done to Horgan who had started his career and had a decent career in the LOI eeking out a good living for himself.Quote:
Originally Posted by nigel-harps1954
Agree, he's done pretty well for an era when playing premier league and even championship is so competitive.Quote:
Originally Posted by nigel-harps1954