We were totally and utterly outplayed. No use in hanging onto a penalty decision that wasn't given. We deserved our beating today and were battered all over. I would have Clark & McCarthy out of the team for the next day.
We were totally and utterly outplayed. No use in hanging onto a penalty decision that wasn't given. We deserved our beating today and were battered all over. I would have Clark & McCarthy out of the team for the next day.
http://www.heroesandvillains.info/fo...pic=55960.1755
The views on Clark from fans who see him week in week out
St Ledger just **** *** will you. Getting boring now.
Seriously buddy, you're a bit of a donkey.Quote:
Originally Posted by the doc
Yes Clark had a bad game and people have a right to point it out and have a go at him, but all you do on here is criticise the lad constantly.
Guys, when you quote the doc it bypasses the ignore function. Help me out.
Bit of a Donkey, that's what all the ladies say!Quote:
Originally Posted by IsMiseSean
At least Sanctus never let us down!
The change of shape didn't help. Walters and long give two out ball options, changing to 4-4-1-1 just made Long the only option and it was all too easy to defend against. The players lost concentration with the penalty appeal too, they were slow to get back, the goal certainly changed the game but we never really looked like getting anything out of it. I still think Italy are beatable so gutted but not quite feeling completely defeated.
I didn't know this was possible. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by NeverFeltBetter
From RTE (and their rather generous ratings):
A reminder that Hendrick deliberately kicked a second ball into the middle of play when Belgium were on the attack. It was obviously a mistake (by a ballboy?) to put another ball on the pitch, but Hendrick choose to disrupt play in the most brainless fashion imaginable.Quote:
Ridiculous decision to book Hendrick when it’s his job to make sure there are not two balls on the pitch.
Loved Apres Match afterwards.
Darragh Moloney - "So Liam, Belgium Ireland's bogey team again"
Liam Brady - "Yes, seven competitive games without a win"
Darragh - "Well, that's eight now, isn't it?"
Liam - "That wasn't competitive, Darragh"
Darragh - "Hm, right. Well, Éamon, some people were very quick to write off Belgium beforehand, weren't they, Éamon, very quick to write off Belgium, Éamon? You don't know anyone who was doing that, do you, Éamon?"
Had a good oul chuckle.
We need a Keogh to unlock the Italian defence.
Meyler may change things for the better.
Quote:
Originally Posted by passinginterest
Maybe he can make the Italian game.
the ref was a tool though. It was right under my nose. He saw there was a second ball on the pitch at the throw in, he should have had it retaken. That's what I thought in real time anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeverFeltBetter
Randolph's save in the first half was superb but might he have done better for the second?
McCarthy showed little again today. Hendrick didn't have a good game but at least he tried hard. Bradys late shot looked like it was going somewhere until it came off Hendrick's head.
Anyway, McCarthy has to be dropped. I feel Clark should be too. Ward did nothing wrong but I think Brady is a more potent weapon from full back.
Bold measures required. Fortune has favoured brave managers in Euro 2006 so far.
I'd go 352 against Italy.
---------Duffy, O'Shea, Keogh-------
Coleman-----------------------------Brady
--------------Whelan---Meyler-------
----------------------Wes------------
---------------Long-------AN Other
We need to have a right go at them and they'll probably line up in a similar manner.
I eas thinking yesterday Turkey are becoming the Ireland of 2016. Now I'm fearing Ireland will be the Ireland of 2016.
I don't like picking on certain players too much but McCarthy/ Clark must be under serious pressure for their places the next day.
We see how much of a loss Walters is now . I wonder if Long is 100% fit .
I'd say that we need Brady in midfield (and at left back:))
I suppose if we are honest our squad is maybe 5 players short of the quality to perform at this level.
We certainly could not afford Walters carrying an injury and also questions about the fitness of McCarthy and Long.
Hopefully we can produce a performance to be proud of against Italy.
I'd go back to the diamond against Italy.
Quinn in for McCarthy, Brady at LB, Duffy for Clark and probably McClean up top with Long, at least he has some pace. Keane can't run & Murphy is Murphy.
I'm choosing Duffy over Keogh for set piece threat. I'd consider Westwood for Randolph too just to give him a game.
My Italian speaking mate is saying La Gazetta is reporting wholesale changes to the Italian XI including Buffon.
I think we need to shake the team up now. A number of players have been way below bar and will be dropped.
Wouldn't be surprised to see a 442.
I would seriously consider starting Robbie for this one. We need to win and we need goals.
If people seriously believe we're going to make big changes, you're all more deluded than people who thought we'd win the tournament.
McCarthy will play again. I have no doubt about that.
I think he'll make two changes. I'd be disappointed if he does the Trap thing and keeps the same 11 for Italian game.
Team does need fresh personnel. A lot of the players look off the pace.
According to my calculations if we beat Italy we need two of the following to happen.
Group A: Romania & Albania draw or Albania win.
Group B: England beat Slovakia. Whoever finishes 3rd can only have 3 points then.
Group C: Germany beat the north.
Group D: Czechs & Turkey draw or Turkey win.
Group F: Too many scenarios but the most likely Portugal beat Hungary & Iceland Austria draw.
WARNING: I'm probably wrong....
Usually I'd agree, but I have a feeling this time there will be more change. We don't look like winning games and now that's what we have to do. Plus after what the other O'Neill did with NI on Thursday...could be more sweeping than we think.Quote:
Originally Posted by nigel-harps1954
Personally I'd have McCarthy, Clark and Ward out for Murphy, Duffy and McClean. I'm no fan of Murphy but I just think we need a lump up front to help make our limited possession count. And with Walters out, that means Daryl.
I don't think Clark had that bad a game but his fubar for the third goal is easily a droppable offence so that makes that one simple. McCarthy shouldn't survive the abject nonsense he's serving up here. He's bang out of form and I hope he comes back in the future, but time is up.
I don't think it'll happen, but I'd take a serious look at playing Christie as well.
100%.
Daryl because we're lumping it forward and beds Long to be running on to flick ons and knock downs, not doing them.
Anyone but McCarthy because he's off form - he's a good player but he's off form.
And I'd be taking a punt on Christie too, Coleman's not performing either.
Tournament football, all or nothing, we have to go for it. Back to the diamond and go out on our shield at the very least.
Back to the diamond against italy. Same team as Sweden except Ward in for McCarthy and Brady in to midfield, Duffy in for Clark, and Murphy in for Walters if Big Jon doesn't make it
It is going to be tough, we need a results and Italy do not.
Lads, seriously, the 3-5-2 will never happen. Meyler and maybe Clark are the only players in the squad with experience playing it, and Meyler's nowhere near the team.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
Was at the game yesterday. I didn't think it was a peno at the time and I was quite close to it. Although I think if it had happened outside the box we may have gotten a free.
But regardless, we were very much outclassed. The Belgians glided past our lads all day. We hoofed it up to Long who was totally on his own all day.
Brady, Whelan and McGeady (when he came on) I thought did well. Hendrick had a shocker. Don't see how he took Wes off and left Hendrick on.
Unfortunately Belgium waited for the Ireland game to finally click.
if its a free offence outside the box then the same offence is a pen in the box. a pen for me. it was clearly a high and dangerous footQuote:
Originally Posted by Fixer82
Yes I think it was a pen. The ref made a mistake.Quote:
Originally Posted by jbyrne
Clarke also made a mistake on the 3rd goal. O'Neil maybe made a mistake with his squad selection, line up, subs and tactics. Long made numerous mistakes failing to hold up the ball, as did every player that played poor balls up to him instead of trying to create good possession. Hendrick made a mistake kicking the ball at the other ball.
Ultimately it was the cumulation of our own mistakes that cost us more than the refs mistake.
Also it is futile to focus on the refs decision as that is outside our control but we can work on our own performance and tactics.
McCarthy's clearly not fit and Coleman's fitness is very questionable, definitely they shouldn't be playing.
Anyway it's just shifting deck chairs on the Titanic stuff to focus on players and personnel changes The team are good enough to perform better but have not been prepared well and not even prepared well to implement a crude game plan. The management have been a crock and (heir apparent) Keane in particular should not be let within a country mile of the top job.
Eg, Long all isolated and getting battered, Wes playing off the loose scraps too far up the field whilst the ball could not played out of own half. The efforts to play the ball out against a bit of was pressing was embarrassing. The delusion that was fed was that we had played well v Sweden and only played poorly after going ahead. All I saw was a rolling shambles of a team v Sweden that was bound to be a shambles after going ahead. And this is to continue into the next qualification campaign?
Italy were fearful and cautious v Sweden a team who were totally incapable of troubling Buffon. Italy would have settled for the draw, probably thinking us to be the easy 3 pointer.
Michael O Neill made radical changes to personel and it paid off.
There seems to be too many of our players carrying injuries/ or off form.
How about Christie in at full back and Coleman in front of him.......I am clutching at Straws......Its blatantly obvious that McCarthy/Clark need a rest .
Long needs some help and McClean has some pace and manoeuvrability . When McClean runs himself into the ground bring on Robbie for his last Hurrah.
How about we bring out Trapattoni to the Match and make such a big fuss out of him that the Italians go all sentimental................... Also all the Irish fans should eat only Italian Ice-cream ,Wine ,Food and sing only Italian opera.....If all this things are done Religiously......then along with continuous on our knees exaltation to whichever is the most powerful god them maybe we have a chance.
That's pretty much what it comes down to. B and C would seem to be the best options.Quote:
Originally Posted by IsMiseSean
A win and a draw has been enough to see teams through as one of the best 3rd placed teams in the last 3 World Cups with this 24 team format and the last 3 Copa Americas with the same format only for half the number of teams.
If 4 3rd placed teams are on at least 4 points before we kick-off v Italy, it will be mission impossible.
Jeez, come on England!!
I think Wes came off with Weds in mind.
Everything hinged on middle of pitch for me. Whelan not the problem, McCarthy is. Geysir rates him, I've never warmed to him to be honest. Not enough "moral courage" (Giles), too shy (Trap, Kajagoogoo).
A fair bit of truth in Geysir's post above but I wouldn't think Coleman should definitely be dropped.
Sweden was good in parts but the chances we created were better than the play that preceded them.
But the crude game plan yesterday was deliberate and I'm back to thinking something from the top down makes our midfielders unable / unwilling to do what they need to do. It started with Jack, a fear of losing the ball.
Can nobody carry the ball 10 metres through the middle?
For me it's 'can nobody go beyond the passer into an attacking space to offer an option? Carrying the ball out of defence/in our own half was tough yesterday because the Belgians pushed up in a high line. Their midfield say just inside our half as a matter of course. But if they're pushing up, there's space beyond them. It would've taken Coleman/Ward/McCarthy/Hendrick to break past the halfway line and give an option.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
As you say, a fear of losing the ball and leaving us short at the back. Bad news is the second half proved it's not an imaginary fear either.
I'd agree with that. I was saying all week I feared realistically Belgium could win 3-0.Quote:
Originally Posted by TrapAPony
Difficult to beat Italy any time. Can only hope their guaranteed group winners spot will see them rest players ahead of Round of 16. They'll be taking on Group D runners-up, most likely Croatia or Czech Republic.
Buffon, Chiellini, Eder, De Rossi and Bonucci are all on yellows so I could see Conte resting them.Quote:
Originally Posted by legendz
As Swan said, MoN should do what the other MoN did and make a bunch of changes for the non performers e.g. Coleman, McCarthy, Clark at the bare minimum all should be "rested".
We played really well against Italy at Craven Cottage. Same approach needed.
And we played well enough in Gdansk, in some respects anyway.
McCarthy and Clark should definitely be "rested". One of the mistakes 4 years ago was not “resting" underperforming players. Many will disagree with me but I have to say it, a Mick McCarthy managed Ireland would have done far better yesterday.Quote:
Originally Posted by Metrostars