Ireland V Germany(A) 11th October & Kazakhstan(H) 15th October 2013 - World Cup '14 Q

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Originally Posted by Dodge

It's even further complicated for Ireland when nearly all of or players are developed in Britain. So not only do we have to cahnge the footballing culture in Ireland, we have to hope that it changes in Britain too

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I'm not sure this is quite right. As a "finishing school" of sorts, the English system has a good record of taking really talented, really technically-gifted players and making them better. Many of the better players in the English leagues received their education elsewhere before finishing their education in England at 16+, just like the Irish kids do. The difference seems to be that fewer Irish kids are of a good enough standard to compete with those kids. That's something we can change without reference to England, in my opinion.

Impressed with Noel King so far. Seems to be doing a lot of things right and talking sense (plus we can understand what he's saying)

Delighted the job didn't fall to Don Givens who has as good a track record of falling out with players as Trap

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Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy

Delusional or otherwise, their club football is on a far higher plane. Luckily to the detriment of their own national side?

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To ours, of course. To the rest of Europe. Not a chance

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Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin

I'm not sure this is quite right. As a "finishing school" of sorts, the English system has a good record of taking really talented, really technically-gifted players and making them better. Many of the better players in the English leagues received their education elsewhere before finishing their education in England at 16+, just like the Irish kids do. The difference seems to be that fewer Irish kids are of a good enough standard to compete with those kids. That's something we can change without reference to England, in my opinion.

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It's not just a finishing school though, the bigger (and best, to be fair) schoolboy clubs in Ireland are priming players for England (and England only) from the age of about 11. Jack Wiltshire's comments during the week that "we're English, we tackle" is pretty easily transferabel to how Irish football views midfield play too.

I'm not offering any solutions here, I'm just pointing out that there will be no silver bullet for the Irish national team's ills

But the English academies are picking up technically-gifted players from all over the world. They're ignoring Irish players because they're not good enough. You can't say the schoolboy clubs are priming players for England when they're doing an increasingly bad job.

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Originally Posted by Fixer82

Impressed with Noel King so far. Seems to be doing a lot of things right and talking sense (plus we can understand what he's saying)

Delighted the job didn't fall to Don Givens who has as good a track record of falling out with players as Trap

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Kings out of his depth, his coaching is awful at this level from what I've seen.

The sooner we get rid of this clown the better!

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Originally Posted by the doc

Kings out of his depth, his coaching is awful at this level from what I've seen.

The sooner we get rid of this clown the better!

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Well it's two games, let's see how we get on.
I haven't seen his coaching but his attitude and attention to detail seem right from what I've seen.

What do you know of his coaching? Were you coached by him yourself? (honest question btw)

St Ledger must be out in the cold.

When Germany played that friendly at Lansdowne Rd before WC90, apart from Liam Brady's substitution the only other notable thing was Germany kept trying to pass the ball across the back 4 /midfield and kept missing.

Typical technically-deficient Germans.

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Originally Posted by geysir

When Germany played that friendly at Lansdowne Rd before WC90, apart from Liam Brady's substitution the only other notable thing was Germany kept trying to pass the ball across the back 4 /midfield and kept missing.

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My first Ireland game. My ma brought me down to Dun Laoghaire on the pretense that we were collecting my da from work. Instead I was dispatched from the car to him and he brought me down to the DART and into the game. Still have the scarf. "Ireland - The Team That Beat The Brits".

I couldn't believe it.

The buzz, the atmosphere, the noise, the everything. Gripping my da's hand as tightly as possible with as big a smile on my face that a young lad of 7 is capable of.

One of the best evenings of my life and I've never lost the bug even once. And I still think we can win tomorrow!

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Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin

Typical technically-deficient Germans.

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A hangover from that dreadful 80's German pop music.

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Originally Posted by Yard of Pace

My first Ireland game. My ma brought me down to Dun Laoghaire on the pretense that we were collecting my da from work. Instead I was dispatched from the car to him and he brought me down to the DART and into the game. Still have the scarf. "Ireland - The Team That Beat The Brits".

I couldn't believe it.

The buzz, the atmosphere, the noise, the everything. Gripping my da's hand as tightly as possible with as big a smile on my face that a young lad of 7 is capable of.

One of the best evenings of my life and I've never lost the bug even once. And I still think we can win tomorrow!

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God bless your optimism!

If the Germans were any good at football they would have won something since they fluked Euro 96.
There's something missing in their dna, if that's the best they can do with a population of 80 millions.
Overhyped moneylenders.

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Originally Posted by geysir

St Ledger must be out in the cold.

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Irish Times suggesting Damien Delaney likely to start.

Keane emerging as a doubt. This will certainly be an interesting team selection. I don't envy King.

I've just deleted the team I'd pick because while typing I've thought of about 3 alternatives I'd equally like to see.

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Originally Posted by Fixer82

God bless your optimism!

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The first match I remember properly is us beating Hungary 2-0 at home. I was 6. Ireland always won, until Italy beat us. And even then it was a glorious defeat. The optimism was bet into me. And anyway, it's 11 v 11 and anything can happen on the day. That's the glory of football. (See Ireland v Holland 2001 for reference) :D

I think people might be overreacting to that Low article. He never calls us a pub team, he accurately appraises our strengths and weaknesses. He says we're likely to play a high tempo game, lots of aggression and commitment, and to press the Germans hard. That's pretty much what most people here are hoping for, apart from the extremely deluded few who expect us to play like Spain with the addition of Andy Reid to the starting lineup.

"DNA", like so many other things, has a completely different meaning in football. He's not saying the Irish people are genetically predisposed to mucking up 5 yard passes, he's saying that forever reason, that's the sort of player we produce, and to be fair, with the youth setup we have, it kind of is.

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

Irish Times suggesting Damien Delaney likely to start.

Keane emerging as a doubt. This will certainly be an interesting team selection. I don't envy King.

I've just deleted the team I'd pick because while typing I've thought of about 3 alternatives I'd equally like to see.

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King makes reference to how Trap treated players who were undisciplined and turned up when it suited them.

And then treats players who always turn up even when injured and gave 100% in every Ireland game, the same way.

Delaney and Kelly ahead of St Ledger at CB? What's King playing at?

Who mentioned Kelly?

And when did Delaney not turn up?

And when did King make those references?

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

Who mentioned Kelly?

And when did Delaney not turn up?

And when did King make those references?

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Not Delaney or Kelly not turning up other players such as Gibson, Wilson etc.

Would you play Kelly at CB?
Delaney or Clark are both poor too

I think I'll watch that Italy total humiliation of Germany at Euro 2012, again. They were made to look genetically deformed that day.
Germany, the super team, went out like a bunchy of wimps.
At least we made Italy work up a sweat.

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Originally Posted by peadar1987

... part from the extremely deluded few who expect us to play like Spain ...

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Who expects this? Who really expects this? This tired old argument gets trotted out so often any time someone suggests getting even slightly away from hoofball.

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

I'll just throw in my 3rd Catch 22 reference in as many days. There's a great chapter on a character called Major Major Major Major. Heller wrote that he was mediocre at everything he did. He wasn't even good at being mediocre. Even at mediocrity he was mediocre.

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I fee like that :)

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Originally Posted by geysir

I think I'll watch that Italy total humiliation of Germany at Euro 2012, again. They were made to look genetically deformed that day.
Germany, the super team, went out like a bunchy of wimps.
At least we made Italy work up a sweat.

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I take it you don't like Germany, and Loews comments.

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Originally Posted by the doc

Not Delaney or Kelly not turning up other players such as Gibson, Wilson etc.

Would you play Kelly at CB?
Delaney or Clark are both poor too

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No, I'd never pick Kelly at CB. You know that I actually rate SSL too.

All King said was that it's a clean slate from this point. He was in no way hypocritical like you're suggesting. Bear in mind that there have to be doubts about SSL's match fitness too.

Delaney? In an open game I think he'd be vulnerable but sometimes a rearguard action plays to the strengths of gutsy defenders.

Clark? Great potential but still has a careless error in him. He's showing leadership qualities in my opinion.

A fully fit and regularly playing at club level, Sledge would have started tomorrow... As things stand Delaney is the right option for tomorrow's game.

Doc, sincere question.... Has there ever been interest from Italian clubs for Sledge, from Traps recommendation??

So is there any chance of Andy Reid starting the match in central midfield tomorrow?

Why does this thread title say "Thread for" and then the subject? I mean naturally every thread is for the subject of that thread. It can go without saying.

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Originally Posted by paul_oshea

I take it you don't like Germany, and Loews comments.

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Just call him Love.
I don't mind him or his comments, they were accurate enough and I've been saying that for ages, but I don't agree that we can't play better now or that we can't employ a different approach to what trap flogged to death and do better than our results in this campaign. Loewe's perceptions. like a lot of non Irish people, are guided by plastic stereotypes of what Irish is supposed to be, happy friendly drunks and in sport, gallant but crude and fated to lose. In the global world, Ireland is seen as the pub. Of course I would never expect that you fit that stereotype Paul?

I certainly don't think Germany are a super team or that they are generally destined to be superior at sports. Us icelanders regularly spank Germany at handball and even football:) It's a sheer pleasure to shove their superiority where the sun doesn't shine. Don't equate that with something prejudiced, that would be a thick interpretation.

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Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin

Loew names squad: http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/socc...quad-1.1550396

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This game could be a new Loew point for Ireland :D

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Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin

Noel King invited Shamrock Rovers' David Elebert along with Richie Towell, John Sullivan, Kurtis Byrne and Andy Boyle of Dundalk to train with the squad today. I suspect this won't be the last time we see Towell involved with the senior international side.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...type=1&theater

No Darren Meenan, surprisingly.

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So I suppose if we are 6-0 down Noel could literally throw in the Towell.:D

So, is it shaping up to be:

Forde
Coleman Delaney Clark O'Brien
Gibson Wilson McCarthy
Stokes Long Pilkington (or McGeady)

The Independent is going with;

Forde
Coleman Clark Delaney Wilson
McGeady Gibson Whelan McCarthy Pilkington
Stokes

If the above is the team for tonight, only 3 starters from the 6-1 defeat - Coleman, McGeady and McCarthy.

Just realised this game isn't on UK tv. FFS

I'm at a beer festival today from midday and was hoping to head home for the match..........looks like I'll have to stay out.

aaah i'll be so p1ssed if robbie is defo out. cant see anyone else scoring, anyone who reckons he should be dropped needs medical help IMO. please God he stays for the next campaign. i'm always optimistic we can score when he plays, always.

Steven Reid is very interesting in today's Indo. I posted it here rather than in the Andy Reid thread as the article moves on to King and the match.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/socc...-29651644.html

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Originally Posted by geysir

Just call him Love.
I don't mind him or his comments, they were accurate enough and I've been saying that for ages, but I don't agree that we can't play better now or that we can't employ a different approach to what trap flogged to death and do better than our results in this campaign. Loewe's perceptions. like a lot of non Irish people, are guided by plastic stereotypes of what Irish is supposed to be, happy friendly drunks and in sport, gallant but crude and fated to lose. In the global world, Ireland is seen as the pub. Of course I would never expect that you fit that stereotype Paul?

I certainly don't think Germany are a super team or that they are generally destined to be superior at sports. Us icelanders regularly spank Germany at handball and even football:) It's a sheer pleasure to shove their superiority where the sun doesn't shine. Don't equate that with something prejudiced, that would be a thick interpretation.

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It's "we" icelanders if you are going to be all inclusive in that one - nice reference now just because "you" still have a chance of qualifying ; )

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Originally Posted by tricky_colour

This game could be a new Loew point for Ireland :D

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No The germans pronounce W as a "V" that was the joke geysir was trying to make.

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Originally Posted by paul_oshea

No The germans pronounce W as a "V" that was the joke geysir was trying to make.

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Some people try, others do.

Delaney & Whelan?
Hmm.

Not the right game for the former and the sooner we rid ourselves of the latter...

No Long would be a mistake as well I think. I know some people didn't seem to take the suggestion of him troubling Mertesacker too seriously, but they do have a small bit of history with Mertesacker getting a red card for a professional foul on Long last season. I don't think Mertesacker is nearly as bad as he's made out to be, but he can be fairly cumbersome and Long's nifty touches and pace could cause him problems. That's if aul Per even plays. When is this team being announced anyway?