Wilson could have done better but he wasn't to know two of his own players would dive in front of the ball. Our defence was just massively disorganised all night.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
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Wilson could have done better but he wasn't to know two of his own players would dive in front of the ball. Our defence was just massively disorganised all night.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
So, lets just sum it all up:
Worst FIFA ranking.
Worst performance in a championships.
Numerous player disputes.
Failure to beat any team ranked higher or at the same level.
Worst home defeat in decades.
Open contempt for domestic league.
End of the vaunted away record.
Looking at dropping down a seed.
Millions and millions in wages.
That's just great. Anyway, it's been a treat, watching the gradual shift of pro and anti Trap from around 6:4 after the Euros to the current 1:9 or so. Just waiting for someone to continue to insist "we haven't got the players...unlucky...Paris...Estonia" so we can renew the persistent argument of the last year.
Oh, if only to be blessed with Stan again... :(
I hate this criticism. We got to a championship. Only two Irish managers have done that before. I hate that we did so badly at the Euros but it was a huge achievement just to get there.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeverFeltBetter
This is a pretty circular argument at this point, but I refuse to simply forget about the absolutely awful performance in Poland on the grounds that getting there should have been considered victory enough (what, beating Estonia?). Ireland could have, and should have done better in that tournament and Trap rightfully takes his share of the blame for that.
We could've done better but it would've went as far as scoring a couple more goals and conceding a couple less - even under a manager far more flexible and go-forward than Trap.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeverFeltBetter
I don't see why it's circular. We got probably the worst group a minnow has got at a European Championship in years. We got the two finalists plus a team that easily could have won it too.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeverFeltBetter
The most frustrating thing is that we are now in limbo, Trap wont go he will have to be pushed, FAI wont push (unless O'Brien divvies up), so we could possibly have the ridiculous situation where we will have to play out meaningless games in a potentially poisonous atmosphere.
Circular in that its all been said before. Neither of us is going to convince the other.
The only question for me now is whether it is better to release Trap this week or hold onto him until the end of the group phase. I assume there would be a financial aspect to the decision, but I would think its better for the team to start over as soon as possible.
FAI press conference in Dublin cancelled tomorrow, board to meet in the coming days to discuss recent results http://www.fai.ie/international/1035...statement.html
In full-out farce mode, Trap should pull out all the stops and recall Gibson, Stokes, Andy Reid, Stephen Reid, Andy Keogh and start them in a 4-6 formation with Wes Hoolahan.Quote:
Originally Posted by centre mid
When was the last time we lost two consecutive qualifiers?
Germany and Cyprus under Stan I think.
About a couple of hours ago!!! :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
Speaking of Stan, compare his 18 months in charge to Chris Coleman's 18 months in charge of Wales and Stan looks like a genius. Nevertheless Coleman is apparently going to be offered a new contract, proof that the FAI are a little better with their business than the FAW IMOQuote:
Originally Posted by NeverFeltBetter
It's got that sad, people are now talking about Stan in a near sentimental way! Trap really has to go now.
Ditto, but for the first 15 rather than the first 60. Same as v Sweden. We start well, but don't have another gear to move up to. Opposition susses us out, soaks up pressure, wins. So predictableQuote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
Euro 92 (8 points) probably isn't the answer you're looking for. 1986 under Hand I suppose.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
Fourth place is definitely our worst finish since Kerr (which is a bit harsh as we were an Henry goal away from joint first, though I'm of the ilk that thinks Kerr has a lot of blame to take for that campaign). Even Stan managed third (just).
Not a single, solitary shot on target. At all. Awful, awful, dreadful, dire stuff. And yet the sad thing is that even if Trap goes (and I think he has to now; we're clearly going backwards), who's coming through playerwise? Down the pub, John83 made the point that we're missing Duff, Given, Andrews, Doyle and Gibson. Dunne has been injured for a long time. It's a lot of players to miss.
Worse is that we've nobody really coming through. We can't score goals (Cox and Walters are the fourth-top scorers in the squad with 4; there's no-one on 3 and only Whelan on 2). None of the u-21 names ring a particular bell bar Duffy (that may well be a reflection on me obviously) They still can't score goals. Trap has a point in that we don't have a proper (professional) league to dip into; barstoolers take a bow there.
While I think Trap has to move on, we're potentially in for a Scotland-esque period in the doldrums. Not looking good. But maybe another manager can get a team that'll get a ****ing shot on target.
Is a Scotland-esque period in the doldrums so bad? They've now hired a manager who is prepared to take bad results in order to turn the team around in the long run. My worry is that we'll settle for a manager who is pragmatic and tries to get results without taking a long-term view and playing a system that is transferable and that players can buy into.
That's pretty much what Brady was saying, there are not the players coming through, doldrums etc etc. Scotland , Wales doom years etc
I'd more go with Dunphy's take, that there isn't that much ground to claw back against Sweden and Austria, make that the target.
And as Giles says, the place to start is with the manager's philosophy and picking the best players to put it on the pitch.
Players coming through is an unknown and not anything we can control.
Player Ratings
Forde 6 hard to fault for goal and kicking was in the main decent
Coleman 7 Ball of energy. His darting runs will be a huge asset under new manager.
Dunne 4 Looked cumbersome and distribution poor
O’Shea 5 Was doing well before injury
Wilson 5 Mixed the bad with the good
Pilkington 6 Started well and looks a good addition to the squad
Green 6 Limited in possession but was always busy
McCarthy 6 Struggled to cope with the 3v2 in the middle as the game went on.
Walters 4 Played like a player out of position
Keane 4 Lively early on but anonymous by 60 mins.
Long 6 Austrians struggled to cope with him but as the game went on he became a lone ranger.
Clark 5 Slotted in well for O’Shea.
McClean 5 A like for like sub. On back foot mostly.
Sammon 4 Summed up Traps tactics over the last 5 years.
Emigration, recession, and low seeding for the next xchampionships.. it's like the early-to-mid 80s all over again. :(
What's Jack Charlton doing?
Fishing and the after-dinner circuit, but mainly the formerQuote:
Originally Posted by texidub
We need a new modern manager, one who plays the passing game.
Look at Liverpool, they got in Brendan Rodgers to do that.
At first the results were bad, but they stuck with him, and look where they are now, top of the league.
Their 5th straight Premiership win if you include last season.
OK early days yet but I felt confident enough to put 50p at 12-1 on them winning the Premiership!!
I also note I can get 15,000-1 on Crystal Place winning the league, a mere £70 would make me a millionaire there!!! Hmmm....
Watching the the post-match stuff on RTE website and Brady is so disrespectful towards the current squad that I wonder whether he is (possibly inadvertently) putting himself in a position that if he does get offered the job, he will encounter (understandable) negative reaction from the players?
Or is he deliberately talking himself out of the job by being so critical of the standard of players (rather than tactics or selection) that he won't even be asked?
Great player, but he is way too harsh on the squad.. his loyalties were more to Trap than the Ireland players tonight.
Whatever it was.. I didn't like Brady's dismissive attitude at all.
Well, 16 years since they've qualified for anything (France 98). Now they can beat Macedonia away.Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
So for us, it's two years down, 14 to go before we hire that manager. Yeah, that's bad!
Macedonia 1 Scotland 2
Croatia 0 Scotland 1 wasn't bad either
Get Fergie in!
It's a shame the FAI didn't listen to the fans who wanted him gone after 2012. We could all see the writing was on the wall so now we've wasted a whole campaign to finish 4th.
with trap introducing coleman, mccarthy, wilson, pilkington, mcclean etc to qualification football since the euros id say it wasnt a whole campaign wasted.Quote:
Originally Posted by shakermaker1982
not a chance ferguson would take the job. not a chance
I'm not sure what a "new modern" manager is but a new manager is not going to be the "silver bullet" solution some people seem to think he'll be.Quote:
Originally Posted by tricky_colour
Yes we can be better than we are, which is why Trap's time is up, but Brady's point last night is well made. We had Duff, Keane, Given, O'Shea, Dunne etc. at their peak under Kerr and Stan and didn't qualify for anything. The players coming behind are not nearly as good. We have a serious lack of quality - the worst in my lifetime. A manager can only do so much. Trap has had his go, done a decent job and it is time to go. But what do we think is success for a new manager? If the minimum requirement is qualification then we're likely to be back in this position in a couple of years.
And don't let the first three games of the season fool you. While Rodgers is doing a decent job, Liverpool won't finish top 4 this year and he hasn't brought them that far yet since King Kenny.
I think qualification shouldn't be the official target. Stiff targets often have unintended consequences. In the UK the national education target is XX% of students getting a minimum of C grades. It's intuitively sensible. They're hitting that target but at the expense of students who get better than C grades and who now get no attention and are doing worse.
My point is that a qualification target is more likely to encourage more conservatism. It's also too narrow a focus.
Just hire a good manager and let him do his best. Tell him that he is expected to attend games, interact with the U21 and U19 coaches and generally help promote the game across the country.
Spot on with that. We need a manager who is aware of our younger teams and shows a major interest in them. I have seen Del Bosque, Loew and Hodgson at youth tournaments and matches. I think we also need a manager who is prepared to try new things and take a chance with youth - a bit like Mick when he took over from Jack.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
As depressing as the situation in which we currently find ourselves is, there is also such a thing as tongue in cheek. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by gastric
By beating Estonia, did you have a good time in poland, enjoy yourself?:rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
Actually I did. Despite our 'football'...and two days in hospital!!
Your herpes always flare up at the worst times Ardee.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crosby87
??
As opposed to a literary diarrohea??
;)
be earning the right to be drawn against Estonia, or any other lower seeded side.Quote:
Originally Posted by bennocelt
Yes but we definitely wouldnt have qualified if we had drawn a decent team, a huge element of luck in that draw. When we got to the actual business end of the Euros we didnt cover ourselves in glory.Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsujin1979
But I guess some people celebrate this as "success"
The fact we were seeded for that draw made it a lot more likely we'd have to face Estonia though. Had we not been seeded, it's unlikely we'd have made the Euros.
The Estonia draw was rigged. FIFA was doing us a solid for the Henry thing. And you know what? That happens all the time in sports and we deserved it.