Wow, what an unmerciful sh!tshow. Is there anything the FAI can't do unprofessionally?
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Wow, what an unmerciful sh!tshow. Is there anything the FAI can't do unprofessionally?
The Venky's of International football. Mackey in the Examiner is saying Trapatonni will be attending the Norwich game at the weekend. Considering what Agnew is saying I find that hard to believe. And Malone is saying it will be better for all parties concerned if Trap gets employment elsewhere before the end of the campaign.Quote:
Originally Posted by SkStu
It’s possible now, however, that Trapattoni might look to move on before the end of the campaign with sections of the media having the potential to grow more hostile in the wake of him having been undermined by the behaviour of his employers over the last few days.
Such a move would most likely suit both camps with the manager getting to walk away from a campaign, and wider situation, which has significant potential to turn sour and the association getting to make their change without the need to find an enormous lump sum.
Current state of play
Positives:
Trap has finally drafted in players that many of us wanted to see in the XI for a number of months now i.e. McCarthy, Wilson, Coleman, Walters.
In the second half against the Faroes, we looked to play the ball both up the wings and through the centre alot more than we have in a long time. McCarthy had alot to do with this. Hopefully McCarthy is now the first CM on the teamsheet.
Trap showing a willingness to try different formations to compensate for our weaknesses.
Qualification still very much in our own hands. 6 points from three games is decent and realistically where we wouldve thought we'd be.
Sweden on paper dont look like the sort of team we should fear.
Despite the concession of 8 goals in three games, hard to fault WW for any really. In fact, he has done reasonably well and the experience will only improve him and give him more confidence.
Negatives:
Arguably there are still some (not many) players not in the XI that deserve to be given a chance/a greater chance - Hoolahan, Long, Pearce, Clark
One of our most skilful players is a liability defensively. Plus we still have not worked out a way to fully utilise his skills and tricky in an offensive manner - Im talking about McGeady.
The centre of defence is a major worry. Outside of Sledge and Dunne, we need to develop good back up (potential candidates may include Duffy, Kelly, Pearce, Clark).
It is likely we will need to beat both Austria and Sweden at home to qualify. Its a long time since we had a significant victory at home.
Public support for Trap is at an all time low and likely to decrease further/turn vicious if we dont pick up four points in March. In fairness if we dont get four points in March, qualification is most likely gonzo.
Persistence with Cox on the wing.
An inept FAI.
That whole Malone article was fascinating and quite frankly I was glad to see TO'D getting put back in his box for a bit, if only for his post-Kazakh interview with Trap which was insulting in tone.Quote:
Originally Posted by Noelys Guitar
But the quoted extract above - is he saying in a subtle manner that relations between FAI and Trap & Co. are virtually at breaking point?
McDonnell and the Independent are reporting the same about the Norwich game. Though I'd be inclined to take Agnew's word over that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Noelys Guitar
Pretty funny in general for McDonnell trying his best to retain credibility after being led down the path by this 'senior FAI source'.
Also, as a side note, McDonnell wrote here on Ciaran Clark that Trapattoni "observed in September that the English-born defender is not really a natural central defender". Is this true? News to me, unless it wasn't reported at the time. Odd because Trap has said Clark is a natural central defender at least once, probably a couple of times.
Not sure I see what the FAI have done horribly wrong this week. Looks to me that you have a standing position of "the FAI are muppets" and read articles that play on that. The media didn't get their blood letting of the manager this week so may as well have a go at the association.Quote:
Originally Posted by SkStu
They've said Trap will remain as manager...why some in Trap's camp are uncertain if they still have a job is beyond me, they have contracts don't they? No ringing endorsement for Trap but what would the reaction be if they came out and said "everything is A OK!!". They are letting the manager know that they are unhappy about certain aspects of his performance which they are totally entitled to do. Now some will interpret that as undermining the manager, probably the same ones who complain about him not attending EPL games......which is one of the FAI main points...oh and stop calling you players idiots in public. How dare the FAI...
The FAI are perfectly justified in telling Trap to pull his socks up.
Maybe it's even the best outcome, just about. Trap being kept but being under no illusion he's not as popular as he thought he was and that the fans and his employers both think he needs to improve many aspects of his management. This was Liam Brady's position from the summer.
I wouldn't have been unhappy to see him go and I still can't bear to watch an Ireland team standing off opponents, but as Owls Fan always says - be careful what you wish for, you might get Paul Jewell or someone similar.
It is adding to bizarre when RTE sports reports all morning, start out with an apology to John Delaney for wrongly naming him as the source of rumors 'mixed messages had been given to the media about the future of the senior manager’s position'.
I can only conclude that it must have been 'deep throat' Delaney who was the source.
I never knew John Delaney and lynda lovelace had anything in common.
They are guessing as well. It's all "believed", "probably" etc etc Is this the Emmet Malone who previously wrote about the terrible relationship between McCarthy and Trapp and the former said just the other day "the manager has been BRILLIANT to me". Too many people here take what journalists speculate on as gospel.Quote:
Originally Posted by Noelys Guitar
Just one small point re Trapp attending games.
Regardless of the "should he or not, why doesn't he go himself etc arguments", a huge percentage of matchtime our players are benched on Saturdays, and mostly stay there, for both Prem and Championship matches, every week. Its chronic.So if he gets around to fulfilling the wishes of many in this regard, he's going to spend an awful lot of wasted afternoons. For instance, he is rumoured to be going to Norwich this weekend. Will Hoolahan and Pilkington be playing? The players who are regulars in their sides he knows well and doesn't need to watch them. And all the people who are advocating that the likes of Clarke, Hoolahan etc should be in the side, how many have seen them live but are advocating their inclusion on the basis of what they have seen on tv!!
You learn a lot more from watching a player live than on TV. Positional sense, spacial awareness, general awareness of the opponent and other team members, especially for backs, which is where we have such a problem. You can't guage this on TV. That's why someone like O'dea getting in good blocks or last ditch tackles, would always come across better than someone like Clark who relies less on this aspect of the game - the debate of how good Clark is is for another time, this is just an example.
A fan/supporter watches on TV, or perhaps live and forms an opinion. We have on this forum some members who only see some squad/fringe players and give very good accounts of them, the manager needs to do this for every player.
Our job is not to pick the team. That's the managers job.
Apologies if this has been posted already, Keith Andrews' column in the Examiner from Tuesday: "Trap has not lost the Irish dressing room" - http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/c...om-211015.html
I posted this on the other thread but I think its probably more relevant here.
I wouldn't read too much into a lot of the articles the last few days. The meejahideen are going to be looking for any excuse to launch a holy war against Trap and his blessed water. This is more than likely only going to get worse in the future(i refuse to use Stutts term "going forward").
like I said, being forced into a late night rewrite of their stories for Wednesday isn't going to improve their feelings towards Trapattoni and the FAI in general. These "sources" are unlikely to be given any credence in future either.Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
can never understand why the media get so many mentions on this forum. i know a few of them personally and they always have their own agenda and always think they know better. their opinion is no more valid than anyone elsesQuote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
Thanks Tets.Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsujin1979
Andrews seems to be a great guy and I wish we had more like him. However, I find it hard to believe that everyone is as keen to retain Trap as he and Keane seem to be. I just can't think that important players like Long, McClean, Gibson and a few more marginal players like Foley and Clark wouldn't like a change.
Kelly is maybe different. I suspect he's very much a team player and probably behind Trap, but just lost the head a bit last week.
I've always had suspicions that Keane & Doyle don't get on great, just something about their body language on the pitch, but maybe I'm just imagining it.
My guess is that there's a core of starting players and regular subs that support Trap, and a bunch of frustrated outsiders not remotely happy and that the squad itself might be divided on these lines.
I hope not.
Part of this 'lost the dressing room' was extrapolated from KK's comments on RTE radio 'friday night of the long knives', some instances where senior players did most of the talking at half time while Trap observed.
Translated to "Manager who plays me has not lost the dressingroom"Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsujin1979
Can you imagine a player who is constantly supported by a manager, then writing a newspaper article criticising the same manager. Come on ffs!
Exactly. The players were supporting Staunton right up until the end, lest we forget. Take what they have to publically say with a pinch of salt. It's in their best interests to say they are behind the manager.
So Kerr and Dunphy combine to get the FAI to recommend/force the current Irish manager to attend EPL games. What happens if Trapatonni decides to keep doing what he has always done? They can do nothing and Trap knows that. This should be interesting.
I'm taking the direct quotes from players as more valid than third party information from unnamed sources, who've been proven to be wrong as recently as last Wednesday night.Quote:
Originally Posted by Real ale Madrid
Ah tets come on, you have been using players quotes for your pro-trap stance for a long time.
Its somewhat akin to quoting Saddam Husseins right hand men during the Iraq war. Its all vested interests and what not.
I mean none of the other players are getting any air time, and probably don't want to worsen their chances further by speaking out, I'm sure between themselves, their friends and their families its well known how they feel about Trap.
I'd say its a bit more country v the big smoke. You'd be surprised in amateur sides how often that happens.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
Of course that would not be a great situation but if Trap started walking on eggshells because the likes of McCLean or Clark or Foley are upset with him, we might as well just give up - They are barely standing in the doorway of the dressing room ffs. Whether they should be or not is another debate but Trap picks the team, its what we pay him for.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
Shane Long is the only guy in that list that I think deserves a little bit extra. Either selecting (my preference) or at least ensuring proper communication with him, so that he is fully aware of where he is in Traps plans (and that may have happened, Longs quote from a few games ago was a little out of context from what I have heard and was not a dig at the manager per se). Long may not be happy with that but it does not give reason for dressing room disharmony.
Gibson - Fcuk knows what goes on in his head to be honest.
Someone else posted Andrews comments may as well be translated as "Im in the first 11, therefore I back the Manager". Ditto could be said of those he has 'lost' in the dressing room, "I'm not in the team, therefore Im not behind the manager"......
Its probably not a popular view on here but there you have it.
Ah ffs. We cant believe anything we read from players that is Pro-Trap and the poor little culchies who are Anti-Trap well.... no one will listen? Will you please think of the children.....Give me a break will yaQuote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
anything else that's available is hearsay, conjecture and opinion.Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
It really, really isn't.Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
Tipperary's Shane Long: "My spat with Trap is forgotten" - http://www.herald.ie/sport/soccer/my...e-3217547.htmlQuote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
A text from Waterford's Stephen Hunt was shown to the press that he had no problem with being left out of the squad VS Serbia, and his brother posted this on twitter: https://twitter.com/boyhunt/status/244128633059414016
Quote:
A lot of tweets to me about Stephen and Trapitoni honestly nothing happened there they still talk! Just wasn't named in the squad!???
I have no idea how valid 3rd party information from unnamed sources are ( to be honest I don't read much of the print media ) - but are you seriously telling me you give even the slightest bit of weight to a player who is currently in favour writing an article in favour of the current set-up, knowing that, if that set up were to change, there is a possibility that he could fall out of favour ?Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsujin1979
That is laughable and that article is not worth the paper its written on.
For what it's worth I'd tend to trust Andrews even despite his obvious reasons to support Trap. He could endorse Trap in other ways and he actually goes out of his way to negate any talk of a lost dressing room, when he could easily just come out with stuff like the players let the gaffer down.
But not losing the dressing room isn't the same thing as having the backing of all the dressing room. I'd be surprised if he does.
Also, let's not forget that the "dressing room" includes people like Green when fit and doesn't include Gibson right now.
I was referring to his thing about keane and doyle. I just take it that the english lads probably get on better with the dubs and the country lads would stick together!! I wasn't on about Trap! Doyler comes across as your typical unassuming country lad, the complete opposite of Keane really. long the same and i'm sure o'shea and the rest are too. I reckon dunnes parents are from the country :D joking!Quote:
Originally Posted by Junior
The dressing room is a packed deck.
It's a moot point speculating whether Trap has the backing of the players he picks. The evidence of the whole package is there to be seen on the pitch. Trap is like a tragic Don Quixote figure out to revive a redundant type of football and bound tight by the rules of that game. Tardelli in the Sancho role of course.
I'd trust Andrews to deliver my future children. I think, possibly, there is a disconnect between the senior pros and the younger players and the older guys may not realise how much discontent there is among the talented youngsters. That said, even McClean was whipped into line fairly quickly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
Grand, until he starts making such a mess of it and we start geting absolute hammerings, repeatedly. He changed it, under duress, and we won 4-1. But do I trust him to hold the correct course and heal the divide he created, sadly, and I do mean sadly, no I do not. I think we have just forestalled the inevitable messy fallout but maybe saved a few quid. Key also, is the breathing space this gives Delaney to navigate a path out of it for himself.Quote:
Originally Posted by Junior
I think it's something worth attaining clarification on since some fans and figures within the media are unfairly using it as a brush with which to beat Trap. If Trap had actually lost the dressing room, the situation would certainly be much worse than it is. As it is, he hasn't lost the dressing room and the situation is what it is; not as bad as it being made out by some.Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
Out of the FAI? or Out of the 'I Hired Trap, gave him a new contract, didnt fire him against popular opinion' problem?Quote:
Originally Posted by CraftyToePoke
If it was the former, then I'd be doubly pleased with the outcome of the last week.
The change 'under duress' - When has Trap folded under duress? He doesnt, isnt that what annoys a lot of you on here? He doesnt give a fcuk what the man in the street opinion is - All power to him I say.
The 4-1 victory - When hasnt he got a victory away against the lower seeds since he's been in charge? No thats right, it was business as usual.
It was a financial bomb ticking away under his ass and it has been fudged, stalled for a time when it will be less expensive. You know this as well as I do.Quote:
Originally Posted by Junior
I didn't say he folded under duress did I ? I said he changed it. And a player, not any old player, a full back he has ignored for God knows how long, slams one on the top corner from outside the box (only rub with that for Trap was it required said full back being out of his own half)
All power to him indeed, right up to the point we are repeatedly embarrassed while ignoring ways to improve either because he wont look at those options through misguided arrogance of a fine career or because he cant be bothered to anymore, and was on the precipice before he would even consider such avenues.
It was a genuine clarification I was seeking. Yes of course I know the Trap Contract(s) are something JD is responsible for and something financially the FAI cannot get out of (on their own), I just wasnt sure whether you think JD thinks he can still steer this ship with or without Trap or you were implying he might be looking for a get out himself. You've cleared it up.Quote:
Originally Posted by CraftyToePoke
Semantics - He changed under duress / He folded under duress. Great goal from Wilson I agree, who didnt perform all that great on the night. Just as well O'Dea covered his ass on occasion whilst chipping in with a goal himself! - Okay playing Devils advocate a bit here, but Wilson playing wasnt what got us a result on the night (I know you havent said that explicitly) but Trap has proven to get results in these places time and again.Quote:
Originally Posted by CraftyToePoke
I think Stutts said it elsewhere, the FAI, the Media, We, are all within our rights to ask Trap 'to pull up his socks a bit' fair enough, of course there are improvements to be made, the best manager in the world can always look to improve. I think we are in a better position today than if we had sacked Trap on Wednesday - certainly for the rest of this campaign, which is where I think it should probably end.Quote:
Originally Posted by CraftyToePoke
All power to the dictator. The belarussian president or the kazakh president don't listen to the man on the street either.Quote:
Originally Posted by Junior
Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
The beatings will continue until the morale of the men improves eh Paul ? Until there are smiles everywhere.
Haha add Fergie and Mourhino to yer list as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
So the dressing room is lost because the players dont get on with one another? You've lost me, it wouldnt be the first time though in all fairness.:DQuote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea