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I refuse to believe a UCD alumnus would resort to such underhand tactics.
Quite right, especially when there are automatic morse code translators available.Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
It turns out that the FAI didn't no-show, and that actually the LRC had agreed to delay the meeting until yesterday.
IT report:
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...323096322.htmlQuote:
THE FAI have told staff the latest pay cut being implemented at the organisation will be temporary after all with the organisation’s board intervening to restore the clause which had been deleted as tensions between management and staff mounted in recent weeks.
As representatives of the association and SIPTU met at the Labour Relations Commission both sides acknowledged between 80 and 90 per cent of staff had signed up to the latest cuts package, which includes a 10 per cent salary reduction.
Union representatives have been calling for talks between the two sides aimed at finding alternative ways of making the savings involved, arguing that having taken two pay cuts already the staff cannot afford another.
The association has insisted on pressing ahead with the latest round of pay cuts as well as with a number of redundancies and a suspension of pension contributions. Neither side would comment on yesterday’s meeting.
Opinion piece from Dion Fanning.
Lots of rehashed stuff but might be worth a gander for those with a few minutes.
Basically talking of JD and Traps mutual appreciation society. Trap is unsackable in JD's eyes and JD did a great 'administrative' job for the Euros in the eyes of Trap.
Poor Communication / respect for the senior players yadda yadda.......
An estimated €10m per year sum is mentioned for the Centralised TV Rights starting in 18 months. A number I havent read anywhere before.
The FAI and LRC are due to meet again tomorrow to try and resolve the ongoing issues regarding pay cuts.
lots of by authoritative accounts and sources in the FAI but basically Fanning is stoking the fires........
http://www.independent.ie/sport/socc...r-3210147.html
So FIFA are stumping up €0.4m in a Grant and the Irish Government a further €0.5m to get a few pitches and training facilities set up at HQ to kick start the academy.......
http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/irish...h-development/
Considering the LRC and FAI are meeting tomorrow to try and resolve the issue over pay, conditions and possibel redundancies, isn't the timing of this announcement bad?Quote:
Originally Posted by Junior
The FAI were at pains to highlight that the grant is specific to the Abbotstown development project, implying that there's no way they could divert the funds to pay for something else (like wages for example). From the FAI website:Quote:
Originally Posted by gastric
Quote:
"The FIFA grant, which is specific for the National Sports Campus Development will be released for works to begin in March 2013. The new facility will provide excellent training facilities for elite players and underage international squads."
The JD Thread reminded me of the FAI Finances thread...
It all went very quiet regarding the meeting with LRC and employee strikes etc...
Anyone any update on this?
Don't know what is going on with the LRC, but this article would suggest life is not good for FAI employees. Secondly, I did read recently ( I think in the Irish Times) that Deutsche Bank are watching all spending at the FAI due to the size of the debt. John could stop giving money away and take a pay cut to help his employees, rather than trying to buy popularity.
http://www.independent.ie/national-n...i-3342961.html
RTÉ Prime Time - FAI financial problems highlighted (4/4/13)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUpcV...layer_embedded
Prime Time investigates the financial hangover of the Aviva stadium for the FAI.
Host - Pat Kenny
Reporter - Kevin Burns
Interviewed guests in order of appearance -
Philip Quinn,
Paul Rowan,
Brendan Dillon,
Paul Cooke,
Eamonn Walsh,
Caroline Rhatigan
Broadcast on Thursday the 4/4/13
http://www.rte.ie/news/primetime/
Note: I've taken this from a Jamesyirishguy post on ybig, so credit to him for uploading!
10,000 tickets at £10,000 each, that's £10million if my maths are right....
I can't tell if you're serious or not.
My pass level maths says Delaney's claim of 6,000 ticket sales, at an avg €15k per ticket, equals 90 million.Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
If stadium cost 70 million, why the 60 million debt!
I was serious but i misheard yer man. I thought he made an arse of himself when doing his basic multiplication - but i misheard him!! More fool me.
Whatever about JD's claims, they never secured that sort of income. The guy in the programme quotes that the accounts have a €12.5m liability, which would include the deferred income linked to advanced sales but would also include other stuff such as sponsorship income etc.. So the only thing that could be said with certainty was that advance sales were no more than €12.5m and probably much less. However, Im not sure this factors in any stage payments, for example JD mentions that it would be 2 instalments of 3.5k€ plus 500€ per year for 10 years, so its possible (and probable) that the second load of €3.5k payments or the €5k (10 * 500€) is not included in that number. Regardless, I still dont think you will be looking at much more than 10m€-15m€ of income linked to these ticket sales - unbelievable to think the IRFU sold almost €100m of these tickets.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alf Honn
I know the debate has been done elsewhere on this thread and other threads of the reasons for this, however the video, suggest a failing may just have been delaying from 2007 to 2008 before launching the ticket sales.....The $hit was really beginning to hit the fan come 2008 both on and off the pitch, interesting to think could they have sold many more if they had launched 12 months earlier?
When did the IRFU sell their tickets?
Didn't Michael Fingleton pay for his via Irish Nationwide? There was talk of him having to give them up and he was furious.
Isn't the FAI expecting a mini-windfall from centralised TV right sales by UEFA for the next Euros (and this WC campaign?)?
I feel a degree of sympathy for the FAI on this. They were persuaded out of building eircom Park a decade ago with Deitsche Bank underwriting future ticket sales, and even though I can't remember the exact circumstances I'm blaming Bertie. It was discussed here earlier.
I don't think they had much choice other than to share the Aviva and they outsourced the corporate sales to IMG, a specialist at all this. No-one really saw the crisis coming, certainly not the timing and severity anyway. OK, some did, but many people smarter than JD got caught badly "long and wrong".
Ya exactly stutts. Why did they postpone selling them? It wasn't an IRFU request or anything like that? So they could get out there first?
Fingers Fingleton. Sounds like such a schmarmy move he would pull. That's ridiculous.
The Fianna Fail Government wanted to build the Bertie Bowl (aka Stadium Ireland) in Abbotstown, which needed football and rugby as tenants. They said they would give the FAI no grants for eircom Park, to which the FAI said they'd go ahead anyway, and then the Government started threatening to make planning difficult (height of structure, opposing floodlights etc) due to the proximity to Baldonnel. The FAI had no real choice in the end but to give up on eP in the circumstances (although it took a coup iirc), imo.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
I should add that Bertie Bowl may have been built, except for the intervention of the PD's and especially McDowell. Abbotstown was a vanity project, but I'd still have preferred it to be built, rather than hames that was made of the entire stadium situation.
The central TV rights money is what JD seems to be clinging on to as the saviour but as I've posted elsewhere, there is nothing guaranteed with future tv deals and who knows how international football will be seen in years to come and its commercial value?
Anyway, without watching the clip again I think the central TV money would amount to around €40m over 4 years, so €10m per year. They compared that to the current €6m or €7m the FAI currently receives per annum from RTE, Sky and other worldwide boradcasters.
So an increase not to be sniffed at but really not much more than is required to service the debt let alone pay any of it off.
If you misheard him, then you miswrote what you misheardQuote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
....and ended up with the accurate quote.Quote:
10,000 tickets at £10,000 each, that's £10million if my maths are right
Or your maths just sucks :)
Could be that the mood of the soccer public was not that positive in 2007 about Intl football( no need to elaborate on that) and part of the FAI strategy was to get in the big name manager and then launch the ticket sales.Quote:
Originally Posted by Junior
Not sure what brought on this PT piece, it is reasonably well known for a while now that the FAI administration costs are high and that its debt situation isnt great.
That in itself might be a blessing in that the debt providers will place various covenants on the FAI, which would include reducing operating costs.
Some questions/thoughts, admittedly in hindsight:
JD's comment at the time of the launch was along the lines that there are XX number of millionaires in the country, we only need YYY of these people to buy tickets. This is such a stupid and clueless comment and shows that the FAI and the ticket promoters were not living in the reality at that time and now.
It is clear from the empty corporate boxes and the premium seats at almost every game that very few were sold as 10 year tickets. I genuinely think the number actually sold is really low.
he IRFU or even GAA were and are probably not useful barometers for ticket sales, - very different products and in this case of the rugby a different customer. The IRFU were always going to sell their tickets reasonably easily - they have a consistent product that fits very nicely for the corporate sector. Clients from Ireland, UK and France can be brought to the games which are always at the weekend and in the case of the 6N are on an annual basis at the same time every year. If the IRFU had to rely on the revenue from their autumn internationals (I.e. their friendlies), then they also would experience much more difficulty.
If I were involved in scheduling our home fixtures, I would insist as far as I possibly could that as many games are scheduled on a Saturday evening or at least on a Friday evening. From a corporate and even travelling fan perspective, games on a Tuesday and Wednesday night are difficult to get to. My focus would be on selling out as many of these fixtures as I could. The friendlies are hard to sell and by and large if you can get 20k to each friendly, then that has to been seen as a success.
Quote:
Originally Posted by elroy
Whilst I cant disagree with you that 20k for international friendlies in the current economic and footballing (in an Irish international context) climate would be decent. However, If the FAI buiness Plan developed to ensure it could repay its share of the debt was based around crowds of 40k (and thats pure speculation on my part but Im sure it wont be far off the truth) then it cant possibly be seen as a success.
As Im sure you're aware, the fixtures that would actually have half a chance of decent attendances are the competitive qualifiers and the fixture timetable there is very much out of the FAI's hands.
Small update: John Delaney states that alcohol sponsorship, which is under threat of being banned by the government, is a "significant proportion" of the €6 million the FAI receives in sponsorship income.
The IRFU, by contrast, takes in €9 million from alcohol sponsorship alone.
http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/spor...ship-1.1435791
FAI accounts for 2012 released. They're still paying €4.8 million a year in interest alone.
http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/s...ne-235782.html
Most curious is this bit:
Presumably the accountant was one of the first to be laid off.Quote:
Delaney’s controversial salary dropped slightly from €400,000 to €386,666 as a result of the voluntary 10% cut he announced at that AGM.
That's the worrying bit its not like inflation is going to shoot up 200% in 7 years or so....72 mil now will be pretty much the same in 7 years(its not an obvious statement).Quote:
they were only in a position to meet interest payments — not any principal — on the stadium debt.
This really is 'heads in the sand' stuff. How with twindling revenue, and with no other form of revenue to draw on, can the FAI claim they will pay this massive debt off by 2020?
http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/socc...ting-1.1454757
Salary cut took effect from 1 September so.Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
Ah, well spotted.
Take back what you said about accountants. :)
Surprising that the interest was the same in 2011 given interest rates are going up. Presume it's not a fixed-rate loan (is there such a thing?) Have to imagine the interest charge will only go up in coming years.
Never!
There is such thing as a fixed rate loan, and my guess is that the interest is fixed.
Considering this from the article,
'And the huge debt caused the association to fork out bank interest payments in 2012 of €4.8m — the same amount as the previous year.
FAI chief executive John Delaney revealed at last year’s AGM in Letterkenny they were only in a position to meet interest payments — not any principal — on the stadium debt'
the interest is most probably fixed, for this period of time at least.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gastric
FAI are just waiting for their share of the new UEFA centralised TV monies to come in, which kicks in with the Euro16 Qualifiers (first game would be Sep14). I've no idea how much that might be but UEFA were suggesting they could get up to a 67% uplift on current TV income levels for the 53 international assocations within UEFA.
Hence why imo the article refers to a €1m capital repayment during 2013 (though I struggle to see how they will manage that along with the 4.8m€ of interest costs!). However the step up in 2014 to a €5m repayment can only be deemed possible on realising a signficant uplift in revenues in that year, i.e. The TV Revenues.
Its a risky strategy imo. As I've said previously who knows what media outlets will be willing to pay for international football tv rights in 2,3,4 years time and whether any real increase in revenues will be realised. The FAI will be reliant on UEFA's commercial negotiations (probably a good thing) who have 52 other bodies and interests/expectations they are representing/managing, many of them with much more clout than the FAI in the corriders outside Platinis's office in Zurich.......
So that's another 5mill lost to Irish football this year again. In any other business heads would roll.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
I'm not sure anyone really foresaw today's low interest rates back in 2006 or whenever it was the deal was struck. It's usually seen in business as sensible to lock-in your funding cost. It's not the FAI's job to speculate on interest rates. If rates had gone up they'd have been wise to lock-in.
I think it's fair to say that Danske Bank is regretting making the loan, so maybe the FAI got a better deal than the bank?
I'm critical of the FAI in other areas but I'm not that critical of the stadium costs. Hindsight has shown the timing to be terrible but they did need a home, the credit crunch and economic collapse wasn't predicted and they appointed IMG to advise on and sell the corporate tickets. Nor was it their fault that Eircom Park wasn't built. I think they should have got a lease in perpetuity from the IRFU though, and not expiring in 50(?) years. It may appear negligible now, but time catches up on everyone!
I've no problem with the fixed interest rate aspect, but there's no pass on size of the loan that's accruing the interest for me.
The life expectancy of the current stadium is hardly 50 years?
they were paying a lot of rent to the IRFU before the new stadium was built. if their plan to be debt free by 2020 had worked (realistic when it was drawn up about 10 years ago) it would have been a missive boost to the FAIs finances from 2020 onwards. in fact i think their plan was to be debt free before 2020 but the vantage club ticket sales were dreadful due to the economic downturn.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alf Honn
i dont think anyone can be critical of the FAI for their involvment in the new stadium
Afaiu, the Irfu and the FAI (equally) share the ownership of the stadium but the IRFU own the land it's sitting on, I could be mistaken.Quote:
Originally Posted by Macy
Considering there are sizeable football grounds all over England, one can argue that building a new Wembley was an extravaganza.
The German national team manage okay by rotating which of the big stadiums around Germany they use. There was nothing in Ireland except an antiquated Lansdowne rd. The FAI have made mistakes for sure but I must read over the old threads to see what type of good advice was being offered in anticipation of all the problems that were surely going to come. :)
Nevertheless, I'd argue for a non- negotiable fixed % of the income accruing from senior internationals to be funnelled back into the game rather than wait and see what crumbs are left over.
No they should be congratulated! :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by jbyrne
Seriously, do you work for the failures?