whats the short term solution for the senior teamQuote:
Originally Posted by mark12345
whats the short term solution for the senior teamQuote:
Originally Posted by mark12345
Out of what started tonight I'd replace O'Shea at right with Coleman and move him into center in place of St.LedgerQuote:
Originally Posted by dancinpants
I'd start Doyle and Waters up front and I would have had McCarthy in in place of Whelan but that obviously couldn't happen.
Would they have not lost 4-0 tonight? Probably not, could have lost by more even.
Even with that I can see why he went with Keane, St.Ledger and Whelan, why not like they got us here and Robbie is our all time goalscorer.
I'll join the Trap out brigade if he continues to play those three in the World Cup qualifiers, but I won't jump on the bandwagon because what could be the greatest international team ever played us off the park
sledger has been our best defender at the eurosQuote:
Originally Posted by jebus
Serious question - are we the worst team ever to play in the Euro finals? I remember Latvia got there about 8 years ago but I think they got a point in the end
Roy Keane speaking on ITV-
http://www.itv.com/sport/football/eu...eir-mentality/Quote:
Roy Keane has reacted to Ireland's 4-0 defeat by Spain and subsequent exit from Euro 2012 by urging Ireland to 'change their mentality'.
Ireland became the first team to be eliminated from the tournament as world champions Spain utterly outclassed them on Thursday night following Sunday's 3-1 defeat by Croatia.
Talking on ITV1 soon after the game in Gdansk, former Ireland international Keane said: "I think the players and even the supporters, they all have to change their mentality, it’s just nonsense from players speaking after the games about how great the supporters are.
"Listen, the supporters want to see the team doing a lot better and not giving daft goals away like that. I’m not too happy with all that nonsense.
"To praise the supporters for sake of it … Let’s change that attitude towards Irish supporters.
"They want to see the team winning – let’s not kid ourselves, we’re a small country, we’re up against it, but let's not just go along for the sing-song every now and again.”
Quote:
Originally Posted by RiffRaff
Was just thinking earlier that we're the Latvia of this tournament (think they were 2000?). But we're just the worst this time. It's always gotta be one team...
thanks for posting it, but thats ****** from keane having a pop at the fans, these lads are at the euros for the first time in 24 years and are enjoying themselves and supporting their country. i wish i could of gone myself. their attitude and support is a credit to the countryQuote:
Originally Posted by bullit
He's dead right.
Em worst teams? Bulgaria were pretty damn bad, along with Latvia in 2004, but our play mirrors that of the Latvians, I think Bulgaria just lost the plot.
He's not having a pop at the fans IMO.Quote:
Originally Posted by the bear
What he's saying is too much emphasis is being put on how vocal the supporters are and how all the talk is about them and not the standard of play we're seeing on the pitch. ''Oh we lost but weren't the fans great''....
It's perfectly ok to be dissapointed in the teams result and performance but still be proud that they got there and still be proud in your country. Do we want to be like England in South Africa, walking off the pitch to their own fans booing?
I'm not happy with the team at all, but I have nothing but admiration for those fans.
Meh, onward and upward. Croatia and Spain are a terrible fit for us. The world cup suits us so much more, with the bad teams from various parts of the Earth. We will be in Brasil with Stephen Ireland marshalling our midfield. And think of the women. Its going to be a great party, only 2 summers away.
And, to add to the reasons to be cheerful, the expanded Euro's should be easier to qualify for as well.
We'll be back, sooner then some people think.
Given - Hard to rate. A lot of great saves, but a lot of errors, especially in the first half. Looks half fit at best - 5
O'Shea - Dreadful. Kept giving it away. Not a full back - 4
Dunne - The man is a lion but a few big errors. I don't blame him for the first but at fault for the second - 4
Sledge - Best of the back four - 6
Ward - Don't think he could have done much more for the first. Not as good as Sledge at the back, but best of the rest -5
Duff - Decent, was perhaps hooked off to save him any further humiliation - 6
Andrews - Tried his best, fluffed one decent chance - 5
Whelan - Much like Andrews. Like Kanoute holding back the tide - 5
McGeady - Couple of decent crosses but an awful performance all round - 3
Cox. Ran hard but that was it. Not his position - 5
Keane Impossible to properly rate as he was so isolated. Only came into the game when he got ****ed off and ran back into midfield to get the ball. - 6
McClean - Not as good as Duff who he replaced, but light years ahead of McGeady - 5
Walters - Put himself about. Our biggest threat when he came on - 6
Green - Don't want to talk about it - 4
the team didn't perform, but the fans did all they could.
why is it considered just a sing song, what else can be expected of fans, spain were winning 4 nil and all that could be heard was the fields of athenry. thats the best support any team could hope for.
the team deserves critiscm but not the fans
Just proves how crap our defence is..Quote:
Originally Posted by the bear
A player that struggles to get into a championship team is our best defender..
maybe so, i havent seen to much of him at club level but from what ive seen at international i cant believe a prem club hasn't snapped him upQuote:
Originally Posted by Condex
Quote:
Originally Posted by NeverFeltBetter
Frightening thought!!! :untroubled:
Like, I get why Roy Keane and others are annoyed about the singing. I also get frustrated at the sense from some fans that draws and "moral" victories are all we an hope for sometimes. I get annoyed from a sense, occasionally, that some of our fanbase doesn't think we can be any better.
But those fans tonight gave Euro 2012 one of its most memorable and heart-wrenching scenes. We need more of that, every game.
What an absolute joke. Spain are quality, but we're a team of professionals, they could have scored 10. The 'fighting irish'? we went out with a whimper.
I think that's a misreading of the attitude of the fans. We know we can do better, but even if we don't we're still going to enjoy ourselves.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeverFeltBetter
Just not good enough..
Teams such as Turkey and Belguim would have contributed a lot more..
Just some of the fanbase I meant.
From the Guardian
By Jim White, in Gdansk
10:27PM BST 14 Jun 2012
Defeat by Spain ensured they would be the first team to be knocked out of Euro 2012, heading home with little to show beyond half of their followers’ life savings left in the tills of Poland’s licensed premises.
In truth, the weather was in tune with the event. Down on the pitch under the soaring copper-coloured roof of the Gdansk stadium, the sun set on Ireland’s endeavour soon after kick-off.
Within three minutes of this game starting, Richard Dunne completed a stirring sliding tackle on Andres Iniesta.
But winning the ball from Spain is only ever half the battle; it is keeping it that counts.
Before he had managed to climb back on his feet, the Aston Villa stalwart was dispossessed by Fernando Torres, who then hammered it past Shay Given in a manner that suggested his past two years had been an optical illusion and he was back in a Liverpool shirt.
We had known before it started that Ireland were in for a tough evening. After watching Croatia and Italy draw they knew at least a point was required from this game to keep their tournament alive. Outside in the stadium concourses, the throaty Irish support insisted that the score would be — as all the pundits had predicted — 4-1 (except with a Robbie Keane hat-trick and one from Simon Cox.)
But the team sheets did not suggest such fanciful Irish hopes would long be detained. In midfield Keith Andrews and Glenn Whelan were up against Iniesta and Xavi Hernández: as contests go, rarely since the early days of Frank Bruno’s professional career can we have encountered one as one-sided as this.
Spain had so much of the ball it appeared to be attached to their multicoloured boots. But the men in red not only know how to keep possession, they know how to win it back.
Ireland, on the rare occasion they took charge of the ball, a moment serenaded with an uproarious round of olés by their boisterous fans, seemed panicked into trying to do something exciting with it.
A Hollywood pass would be attempted, a long punt forward for poor Robbie Keane to chase like a wayward spaniel hurtling across a beach in pursuit of the wrong tennis ball. With the inevitable result the ball would be quickly returned to their opponents once again.
But, if those who might face Spain later in the draw (and that could include England in the quarter-finals) wish to draw one comfort from this mismatch, it is this: as we have seen so often from Barcelona, with Spain possession can soon come to be an end in itself.
Converting that into identifiable chances, never mind goals, is something else entirely. If Spain were a Shakespeare play they would be Hamlet, the brilliant masters of procrastination. Boy, they don’t half faff about.
And although they scored four times here (David Silva’s second a thing of such impudent beauty it should be framed and hung in the Prado Museum) a more competent defence might be able to frustrate them into self-indulgence, a more persuasive midfield might then be able to make something of scraps of possession. It is not over yet.
Except for Ireland, that is. For them this competition is now definitively in the past tense. For their fans, who have brought so much jollity to this tournament, acting as counterweights to the niggardly dispatches detailing racism and hooliganism, homophobia and overpriced hotels, the end is now here.
Their departure after Monday’s final group game with Italy will reduce the volume in Poland. These fans will be missed. Unlike their team, who were barely noticed.
Pretty much, yeah.Quote:
Originally Posted by Condex
Nice of Spain to spare our delicate feelings for the last 20 minutes by playing with no forwards, or were they perhaps just trying desperately to stem the offensive onslaught we were subjecting them to?
I'm glad anyway Mclean got his chance to run like a headless chicken towards the nearest group of Spanish players though, to at least prevent the inevitable strawclutching by journalists, commentators and people in bars that if only he was on the pitch it would all have been so different............
To be fair we actually gave it our best shot, there was no casualness, tactical naivety or general cluelesness going on like in the Staunton era it was just a chasm in class. They had Xavi and Iniesta in the middle of the park, we had Whelan and Andrews. They brought Fabregas on off the bench, we brought on Paul Green.We got anyone playing Champions league these days who's going have faced that kind of football recently
Still you cant play Estonia every big game can you? They've just got to dust themselves off, try and learn a few lessons in the art of damage limitation and concentration, haul St Ledger up off his ass and try and come back in a few days and show we are not in fact the worst team in the tournament. That at least will give our ever wondrous fans something legitimate so sing and dance about at least.
These Euro's?Quote:
Originally Posted by the bear
Not too clever today but then who was?
That's what hurts the most. No fight, no guts, no belief, talent doesn't mean everything, but we didn't compensate our lack of talent with enough fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeverFeltBetter
Spain are good, but they don't beat every team by multiple goals, look at them in the last world cup, they struggled to get by teams all the way through
Mcclean played for 15 mins, what about half the team that have played a full campaign and done very similar things e.g Hunt. Give the fella a chance. St Ledger is a good blocker that's about it, if we are to try and start passing the ball from Keeper out he's not going to cut it. McCarthy, ciaran clark, Coleman, Hoolahan, Wilson and perhaps even Anthony stokes to be involved from here on in. Paul Green and Mcshane forget about it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Adrock
By the way I don't have a problem with tonight's result at all, but let's not kid ourselvesin qualifying against mediocre teams we didn't set the world alight by any means, theses defeats are not mistakes or hard luck, they are a reality check
Completely devastated after that. Been up since 2am Melbourne time to watch both games and it's not 8.30. Sitting at my desk nearly an hour and cannot bring myself to do anything.
It isn't the defeat that bothers me. I expected a drubbing but as CFDH said, it's the manner of the defeat. Where is the spirit gone? It was a team that took to the field that knew it was going to lose. When Torres scores the first and wheels off celebrating, in the back ground you can see one or two Irish players with their hands on heads. To me that is utter bullsh*t. Three minutes in and acting like the game is over. Surely that is the time for players to be talking, organizing and planning fcuking some way to get back into the game.
Is it true Trap said they had no Plan B if they fell behind? If that is true then he needs to answer for that. The most optimistic fans on here knew we would most likely fall behind at some stage.
I cannot fault Cox because he did the job he was asked to do. And he did it to the best of his abilities. But why in God's name did Keane not play that role and Long or Walters up top? Instead we have two tiny front men. The wingers and overlapping Ward were then trying to cross the ball(not that it made it into the box) when we had no real threat up front.
I expect to see same again for the Italy game. There is no changing now even though we have been ripped apart twice. We are out but all I want to see against Italy is pride and a bit of fight. I'd like to see Long and Walters but that won't happen
It won't happen in case we get a positive result and Trap is forced to consider that he may have got it wrong for deciding on his first team 2 weeks ago, actually, when he announced the squad. Ridiculous.
They started with no forwards against Italy I think. Anyway I would say the Spanish probably expect any of their players to be able to score a goalQuote:
Originally Posted by Adrock
not just 'forwards'.
I don't know what the fuss was about Walters must play, he was cráp, oafish at best. Nice to see McClean get on but he was out of his depth.
The two players most would have selected from the start, would have made zero positive difference.
Strange to see experienced players like Dunne, Whelan and O'Shea crumble at this tournament and a rookie modestly talented Ward do his honest best and a bit more.
Some nice passes from McGeady in the 2nd half but we were just firefighting for the most part against a class team.
There was a typical farcical gaff from the RTE panel (Giles) picking on Green as culpable for the 4th goal with an exasperated Brady vainly trying to explain it had absolutely nothing to do with Green.
Thats the difference between this Spain team and the last 2 tournaments. They had Torres first then Villa coming off dynamite form previously, this year noone's got to double figures in league goals at least, Torres and Pedro have both been off color this season and Villa injured.
Barcelona and Real have Messi and Ronaldo to finish of their moves, but for all their midfield genius the thousand or so passes Spain strung together relect a lack of forward outlet as much as anything. Of course when confronted by a defensive and midfield shield with gaps you could drive a imperial starcruiser through this isnt such a problem and you can still knock in 4 goals.
Talking of the dying striker's art, am I the only one to think Kevin Doyle actually put up quite an impressive show against Croatia and even looked a bit threatening? Everyone was quick to jump on the Jon Walters bandwagon but Id sooner have Doyle leading the line with Keane and us giving it a real go against Italy. Their only decent defensive fullback is in a police interrogation centre so Id like to see Duff and Mcgeady getting down the corners and putting some balls in the box. Of course we've got a to get hold of the ball for more than 5 seconds first but thats going to be an easier job against the boys in blue than the boys in red.
Finally, someone who recognizes a problem when they see it. Fair dos to you magicman, I've been saying Keane should be in midfield for over a year now. And today bore it out. He is a creative player but two yards off the pace to be a striker.Quote:
Originally Posted by magicman
Robbie would have been best placed in midfield - I said it a long time ago on here and was laughed off the stage. Well who's laughing today? Keane as a striker against Spain was a useless idea and Trap needs to answer for his lack of knowledge of his players.
Look, we would have got beaten today no matter what because we just don't have the ability to hold the ball. But there were players and permutations that Trap could have used. I'll give you a few - Keane in midfield, Hoolanhan in midfield and a proper right back (O'Shea has never been more anonymous in his whole career) like Coleman.
Keane is not a 'creative player' he's a goal poacher, where did this myth that Keane is some sort of Totti-esque, number 10 come from?
Can you be really honest with me? I mean really honest. Do you think Whelan or O'Shea are worthy of being picked to play international football?Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
They are two of the worst players Ireland has ever produced.
Dunne, let's give him credit for Russia away, and a few more highlight games, but while we're being honest with one another, all Richard is is a lad with a big frame and a big heart. He has zero football skills. If you think I'm wrong, compare him to say Pique or Puyol. When the ball comes out of the air they take it on their chest, touch pass it to a team mate and get the return. They build a move from there and are always available for the return pass if needed. They are rarely troubled by a forward because they are pristine perfect in their handling of the ball.
Our RIchard on the other hand puts a big head on the ball and heads it to an opponent and spends the next few minutes trying to put out the fire he has started. Not his fault really because no one ever coached him to play like a defender should. It's a similar problem with most of the Irish players.
Are you insinuating i'm not honest?
How dare you! ;)
Gutless, Spineless and trying to play prehistoric football. Outclassed by a fantastic team but every one of the goals came from stupid mistakes exactly like the Croatia game. One thing Irish teams have always done is work harder than the opposition, Trappatoni has even taken that out of us. Starting Keane up front on his own was beyond belief and there is no way to even begin justifying that decision. Massive changes needed for the World cup qualifers. We looked lacking in any sort of belief and confidence and that has to come from the manager. Nobody can convince me that we dont have good enough players to play proper football... Norwich and Swansea play fantastic football with inferior players than what we have.
Ireland in the Euros has reminded me of Rovers in the Europa League. Great achievement to get there, but hopelessly out of their depth once they're there, scoring nil pois!
An American I know just told me that Given is, at 36, "youngish" for a keeper.
I don't know what to say back.