Our footballing culture would involve a hell of a lot more handballs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
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Our footballing culture would involve a hell of a lot more handballs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
of course we have a football culture, don't be daft. Just because it's disjointed and imbalanced and not as in line with best practice as it could be doesn't mean we don't have one. I happen to think that a country's national teams should be indicative of the way football is organised in a country. Ours are, it's just not a very good indictment.Quote:
Originally Posted by Murfinator
We have a football culture, but there is a total disconnect between international and domestic football and it shows. As long as the general public and the head honchos see overseas players and managers as the bedrock of "Irish" football then the actually footballing culture of the League of Ireland will never be seen.
Michael O'Neill
And stop posting without wearing your tinfoil hat.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
Poaching players is bad enough but could we get away with poaching their manager?Quote:
Originally Posted by Deckydee
Hey it keeps me warm, and just because I believe that our soccer journo's share the same strand of moral courage, doesn't mean there's a conspiracy :-) And with due respect to the lad, Richie S. is not a good pundit, if he now covers the sky league show, lovely, much easier to watch MNS and LOI without him.Quote:
Originally Posted by BonnieShels
What about Pia Sundhage, unless you are all fearful of a woman in power.
Problem with an Irish manager is no one would respect him (I'm talking about the fans and the media). Sounds crazy I know but we just don't respect our own. Mick and Jack got way more respect than Stan, Brian Kerr, John Giles, Eoin Hand.
Martin O'Neill is about the only one who'd command respect.
Bigger problem however is to get our youngsters playing football properly and steer them away from England. Steer them to mainland European countries where they actually play the game known as football. We'll be singing the same old song in fifty years if we don't.
Mick is one of our own. Tut tut tut!Quote:
Originally Posted by mark12345
You're right though on the "bigger" problem.
Bit simplistic. There's no real anti-DOB culture in the sports pages at the Indo. There is an anti-Trap culture in general among media cohorts, and there is a very cosy hive mind that involves the more prominent sports journalists at all media outlets in this country.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spudulika
I think our Roy had something to say about that!:DQuote:
Originally Posted by BonnieShels
Mick never walked out on his nation in favour of his ego, but that's another story.Quote:
Originally Posted by bennocelt
I see Trap has publicly layed in to James McClean saying that he's lucky to be in the team and openly letting us all know that he had to give a grovelling apology to the rest of the team. I really think this is very poor management. Yes McClean should have to apologise to his team and should be made publicly apologise as he has done, but I don't think that the rest of us need to be made aware of what goes on behind closed doors.
It's very clear to me that there are a core of decent players in the Irish set-up who will get on with doing whatever Trap asks of them (I would include Robbie, Andrews and Dunney in this category) because they have more of the traditional attitude to international football and were brought up to get on with the job at hand, even if they don't agree with things. It's the classic Irish thing of keeping the head down and not rocking the boat. I both laud them for their love of the green shirt, while wishing that they would try and encourage change (there were hints from Duffer before he retired about him being very excited by McClean which seemed to indicate that he wanted him to get a good chance). It is the very thing that Keane despised - I part agreed with him as positive change won't occur, if our most influential players go along with the flow.
Then there are the good game lads (as Gilesy would say!!) like McShane, Whelan and Ward, who genuinely love playing for their country. However, they are all mediocre players who should not be getting their game. They will hardly rock the boat.
Then there are the batch of players who offer potential. This group includes Coleman, McClean, Clark, Gibson, Hoolahan, McCarthy and Wilson. All players that have shown they can cut it at the highest level and all with the exception of Wes, young lads who could be very important players for us over the next 8-10 years. Trap's attitude to them appears totally indifferent and he almost wants them to falter when he gives them a chance, as much as to say "sure didn't I tell ye that they aren't ready". The more decent lads like Coleman and McCarthy will keep their heads down and work their way in to the team, even if they know and we all know they should have been there long before. The more arrogant ones like Gibson will behave the way he did over the past few weeks (disgracefully) by eventually walking out of the team. Bottom line is that if he had a manager that gave him trust and support and played him ahead of players that he is clearly better then, this incident would not have occurred.
We are a mid-table type international team with a decent batch of players to choose from. We are not Spain, but then again we aren't Lithuania, let alone a Moldova. However, Europe is so competitive as a continent, that if we are to be in the running to qualify for tournaments, then we can hardly be going about it, by alienating our best young talents. Trap is failing us badly in this regard.
If Trap does end up going I'd love to see us follow the same approach again and bring in a respected coach from Europe who has no experience of the English leagues, and no pre-conceptions etc. Always dangerous to generalise about managers based on their nationalities (even if Trap is the most stereotypically Italian manager ever), but a German could be good. Good balance between technique and organisation. Someone like Ralf Rangnick maybe.
To be fair to Trap, with our seeding improvement, the job is a hell of a lot more appealing to good managers, then what it was when he inherited it. I think that we have a potentially good batch of players coming through that is also appealing.Quote:
Originally Posted by backtowalsall
I would love a good international manager like Rangnick, who first and foremost has people skills!! I would be less sure of the FAI though having the foresight that some posters on here have and I think it will be the same 3-4 fellas in the running, with a Jewell or Burley type thrown in for good measure.
Given that our youth teams would appear to have adopted the Dutch approach, then maybe a manager from there could be an option also.
CD - you're right on the hive mind, I even heard Matt Cooper drivel on, though in fairness Mark Lawrenson cut him down with facts rather than rhetoric. I'm not convinced about the lack of anti-DOB agenda in the INM sports pages, they have loved sticking the knife into JD, and references about salary and payments (for Trap) relate directly to DOB, so in this regard I find a common thread running through the "empure" that just doesn't feel right.
I'd get Felix Magath in for Ireland, Rangnick might be a little too blunt and wouldn't leave club football for a while. I wouldn't appoint a Dutch coach as they could blow up too easy. Regardless, no matter who comes in they'll be slated as quickly as possible. Stan was being lauded for his first outing win (and rightly so) against Sweden, and then destroyed, especially for the water bottle incident. Trap wasn't Roy Keane so Dunphy went for him, and while half the salary was being met by DOB, the INM mob were biding their time.
It disgusted me how many were hoping Ireland would lose to get rid of the manager. We're truly more english than the english.
Quite a few of the lads in the pub on Friday were gutted when we got that equaliser. Very strange to see.
There was a gobsheen beside me in the pub talking bawlls hoping we would lose. Even at the lowest ebb (v San Marino, v Cyprus) I would never wish for us to lose.
Barstoolers!!!
Does actually jumping onto a barstool in a half-empty pub, jumping up and down like a looney at much danger to my personal health and drawing strange looks from after-work drinkers charactarise me as a barstooler?
Quote:
Originally Posted by shakermaker1982
Best supporters in the world (tm).Quote:
Originally Posted by BonnieShels
Its the joke that never stops giving.
Or the mantra that keeps being brought up by WUMs who know full well that the supporters don't think that of themselves. The term is only used by those looking for a stick to beat the fans with.Quote:
Originally Posted by Murfinator
Have the posters slating people for not being happy at the Irish comeback considered the possibility that these fans genuinely believe that Trapattoni is not doing a good enough job and the team are heading in the wrong direction, and the best way for this Irish team to turn a corner would be for him to not be the manager anymore? In which case, a loss to Kazakhstan might bring about the desired change faster.
Or even the notion that there are lots of Ireland fans, and some can be idiots while the majority are hugely popular abroad.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
I don't think Trap is doing a good enough job yet I was nearly doing cartwheels. Why would anyone want a campaign to suffer what would practically be a fatal slip-up just so case to discard the manager would be strengthened, especially when he wouldn't have left anyway?Quote:
Originally Posted by osarusan
If you applied this logic to every match, we could beat Germany and Sweden and people would still be hoping for us to lose against Austria. And I guarantee that if we did there would still be people calling for Trap's head.Quote:
Originally Posted by osarusan
I'd seperate the anti-JD/"corporate" angle from the footballing arguments against Trap. In fact, though, I think both are kind of generic arguments that all newspapers and media outlets broadly share.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spudulika
Maybe they think he's doing a worse job still.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
Because they think that the chances of qualification are very very slim anyway, and it's better to build for the future as soon as possible?Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
I don't know these people or their motivations, but I think it's unfair to dismiss anybody wanting the team to lose for these possible reasons as an idiot, gobsheens, etc.
I can't imagine too many fans not seeing this as evidence that the team has turned a corner.Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
Really?Quote:
Originally Posted by osarusan
In an Irish context no manager has surivived for long or his teams results improved once the majority of the fans have turned against him. And to be honest (other than possibily Mick McCarthy) all deserved to go when they did. IMO most Irish football supporters are not dummies and are fairly loyal to the management and players. But if they see Plan A is not working and all that is offered is Plan A over and over again then they are going to turn on you.
No. Why I even answered this I dunno... :PQuote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
Now if you don't make it to Fulham tomorrow I may re-consider.
I saw comments on FB from lads who had travelled to Astana, who expressed a disappointment at getting the equaliser and winner in a belief that a defeat may well have seen Trap sacked. (A) it wouldnt have seen Trap sacked (B) I havent spoken to those concerned directly but I find it really hard to believe they were genuine sentiments but if so, it would start to dispel the notion it is barstoolers only.
I dont care how bad Trap gets or the team performs or JD gets paid, I'll always want my country to win. Simples.
One question...why would you travel halfway across the world, to hope to see a team get beat in order to get the manager sacked? If I was that p!ssed off I wouldn't travel the length of the country to see the team.
Superfan syndrome.Quote:
Originally Posted by nigel-harps1954
Personally delighted we pulled it out of the fire. I remember Liechtenstein well and don't ever want to feel that kind of international embarrassment again!
Yes, really.Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
To be fair, it could have been put more clearly.
:rolleyes:
Has anyone mentioned Sean O Driscoll, the new Forest manager who could be top of the Championship next week?
Andy Reid has shed pounds since he joined apparently, too inexperienced obviously perhaps.
He has three Ireland caps (Sean not Andy).
Yip...Quote:
Originally Posted by tricky_colour
http://foot.ie/threads/157804-Trappa...=1#post1625465
Did you throw down or are you too old to fight Shaker? You have to fight in a situation like that right? Tom Cruise would have in Far and Away.Quote:
Originally Posted by shakermaker1982
I saw the goals being welcomed in a very subdued manner. People weren't gutted where I was, but just rolled their eyes or cheered sarcastically. Were a few who expressed "Guess they won't sack him now ffs" type sentiments.
I don't actually think Trap would have been given the shove if we had lost.
I was screaming my head off when the peno was given, and roared when the winner went in. It was pretty late here and I've got Kazakhs downstairs as neighbours (not to mention some Tajiks). I'm delighted when Ireland win, disappointed when they lose and relieved at times with a point. It sickens me to see the delight expressed by many (mouthing the usual - this will get the manager sacked) when Ireland are losing. Unfortunately the worst type of eejit you meet in the pub is the one gobsheen who sits there being contrary. He never gets his round, usually ends up getting a smack in the mouth, and will always "tell you so". Our meeja is full of them - not just sports. Now I feel contrary myself and want Trap to succeed further just to stick it up to the meeja.
Oh, and one lovely thing that came out, from Richie the genius, and some other shareholders in the same brain cell - "is this what we're reduced to, playing for a play-off spot, 2nd place in a group. This is the height of our ambition?" Fvck yeah! Germany, Sweden and Austria....when the draw was made we were thrilled to go for 2nd spot. Suddenly it's not enough.