Totally agree except I'd modify this. If we come a cropper I think it'll be cause of tactics and/or player motivation, because with our current batch we should still have enough to beat Slovakia and take something from Moscow.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingdom
According to RTÉ, McCarthy is still on stand-by for a senior call-up in case of injury ruling a member of the senior team out.Quote:
Originally Posted by Murfinator
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...315361252.html
Suggestions that a player has requested to pull out due to "personal reasons". What betting the player in question is one of this quartet (probably Walters), resurfacing everything mentioned in this thread.
If the player in question happens to not be Irish born, have a history of low committal and in light of what Ian Harte has been saying its going to produce a very negative backlash from the media which we don't need ahead of the Euros.
Emmet Malone is merely speculating and may well have misinterpreted Trap's words as Trap's quote doesn't actually refer to anyone having a problem due to personal reasons. According to KK77 in the Euro squad thread, it's Keith Fahey who won't be able to make it, but due to injury rather than personal reasons.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Murfinator
Can't for a second believe there would be any sort of a negative backlash. If a player comes out and says, for personal reasons they are not available for (what would be for many of our players) the highlight of their careers, then that, I assume, would be accepted by the media.
I know I will be wrong, but I would hope no journalist would stoop so low as to accuse a player of not wanting to play when said player must have serious issues in not wanting to travel.
Unless a player comes out and says "Nah, I just don't want to go" then I will not say an unkind word, only wish him all the best and hope to see him again.
I may have taken your post up wrong, and if I have I apologize in advance but to me it seems like your looking to create something out of nothing. If that is the case then it is a real shame.
You posted in the Stephen Ireland forum the following regarding personal problems- In addition to the miscarriage if people knew his father and the kind of upbringing he had I think they'd be more understanding as to the kind of insecure individual he's become. It's not appropriate to go into more detail on that on a web forum but it's worth understanding that his childhood and upbringing has affected his rationality as an adult. People assume many things about him based on his eccentricity and inconsistent remarks, most of them wide of the mark.
To then put "personal problems" in quotation marks like it is an excuse when speculating that it could be one if these four players is ridiculous considering you can have no possible idea of what the player in question could be going through.
Again, if you weren't implying that then I again offer my apologies, but that's the way it read to me.
I heard Stephen Ireland's third granny died.
Malone's speculation has a hint of Niall Quinn's Testimonial v2 about it, but it's too early to start accusing players of lack of commitment. It might be personal reasons (or might not) and those personal reasons could be anything.
I doubt Magicman is alone in detecting a note of mischievous intent in Murfinator's post. We all suspect that Malone knows something he can't say just yet (good - The Irish Times has done enough damage to our tournament aspirations in the past) but for now we'll have to sit and wait.
We could do w/o this but if someone has genuine personal reasons for pulling out, well you have to accept that.
For all we know, it could be something tragic, like a serious family/spouse illness. Lets wait and see.
who is McCarthey?
Let's wait and see.
Probably just guesswork and **** stirring by Malone. If it is a personal reason then it must be serious for a player to want to miss out on the Euro's. I hope they leave it well alone until the Trap/FAI confirms the squad.
On the squad discussion thread I posted a quote from Delaney saying he is aware of an issue but that it's too early to talk about it. Malone isn't in the business of silly gossip mongering. "Personal issues" could mean anything at all but I have to admit to being intrigued, and at least slightly apprehensive.
I wonder is it McCarthy. He would have been p+ssed off that Green came on instead of him and is 4th (possibly 5th) in line in the pecking order in midfield. He has pulled out of squads before and has had problems with Trap. But if the toothpaste man is being called in the odds are it is a winger.
I wouldn't have thought McCarthy was an "established" member of the squad and he's no certainty to make the final cut anyway, negating any need for Trap to make an issue out of any potential non-inclusion. What problems has he had with Trap, by the way?
How many times can "personal reasons" be accepted from the same player before you start to raise an eyebrow at it. In their very short career the likes of Walters, Best, McCarthy, Wilson etc have had several dubious withdrawals either from minor injuries they've recovered from 3 days later or the dreaded "personal reasons".
If it was one of these players (and I have absolutely no idea whether it is or not) you'd have to wonder if they're regretting their decision to declare for us with so many international incidents that never affect their club career. It is difficult to know what Trap English means as an "established player", it could be just about anyone although I'll assume it isn't Best, Wilson or anyone else outside the squad. He's named McCarthy as a 50/50 before so out of the likely players he was planning to bring it leaves Walters as the top suspect.
You can pretty much narrow down the list by looking through interviews at guys expressing their excitement ahead of the tournament. Duff/Hunt/McGeady/Keane/Cox/Long/Doyle are all accounted for. If it were injury with Fahey he'd say injury, its a very easy explanation. It may be something genuine and nothing to do with the players I've mentioned, merely saying if it is yet another occurrence from a usual suspect questions will be asked.
Yeah, they should lie about their grannies dying instead.Quote:
Originally Posted by Murfinator
If it were one of those murfinator, why would he care about not just saying it straight out and saying its an established player, he seems to have glanced over it as something that the player is still deciding and he understands the players personal reasons. I'm not so sure he would give the same level of respect to some of the other members you speak of.
Some fine stirring there murfinator.
Malone is an honourable fella. If he rubbishes something I'd be inclined to take his word. If he talks something up, then there is something in it.
Also, the issue is directly related to Die Hard's inclusion in the squad so that rules out the majority of the players who are going to be in or around the squad.
I'd go so far as to say that it has to be one of Duff, McGeady, Hunt, Fahey or Coleman.
I reckon I'll be able to either rule in/out one of them this evening.
For personal reasons doesn't either have to mean illness or imminent death to one's kin. It could be a player needing an operation on a long-standing injury and the club putting pressure on the player to have the op over going to the Euro's - particularily if it's a player that could command a fee. That would rule out Duffer, but probably would rule in Fahey, Hunt and Coleman, as all three have carried niggly injuries recently.
Probably not many, but it does depend on who the player is and what the personal reasons are.Quote:
Originally Posted by Murfinator
You're merely stating the bleedin' obvious in other words.Quote:
Originally Posted by Murfinator
That's how I'm reading it too. Who knows? Some seem to be chomping at the bit for a scandal to be breaking or for a UK born player to show a lack of commitment (plausible) whereas it could be something more deserving of some understanding (also plausible).Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
Sorry dunno why I said that.
It's not Fahey, one of Duffer's mob have said he's coshure, so that narrows it down to Hunt or McGeady I'd reckon.
:confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingdom
Kosher; fit to be used?
Any idea why Gibson wasnt in the Everton squad tonight?
I would be astonished if it was Duff. For that man not to play for Ireland, it would need to be something tragic.
Came off at half-time on Saturday. Commentator said it was a knock. No word on it elsewhere yet.Quote:
Originally Posted by elroy
I'd assume its a sensitive issue for the FAI and Trap has to watch what he says, it may not have been fully concrete at that stage either.Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
On the candidates, Hunt was on the premiership a couple of weeks back and spoke of his anticipation for the Euros. You'd imagine the player in question has known about the issue for some time and theres a decision to be made from them. I also wouldn't assume its necessarily a wide player considering Trap is planning to bring 5 strikers with some of them covering wing. He could drop a striker for a wide player and for it to not disrupt his squads balance.
He'd already listed Coleman, Gibson, McCarthy and McClean as guys in his "maybe" pile, I doubt he'd refer to one of those as "established" if they were ruled out, unless its a language mistake. And again if it was Fahey it'd be referred to injury and not a personal issue, I think they'd happily qualify an operation as under the injury umbrella too.
Cox and Long have also given recent interviews of their excitement going to the Euros, Keane took a January move for specific preparation towards it. I haven't heard anything from Doyle but given the kind of guy he is I think thats a real long shot. It leaves only Walters unaccounted for, unless Traps definition of "established" is misleading. Would have slight concern over the column drawing note to McGeady despite later ruling that out and also Colemans season in general which seems to have been very disrupted by something.
Walters was saying he was very tired actually recently. Does he have a sick daughter? Could be down to that alright. Playing 40+ games for stoke this season he might not have got much time to spend with her....could well be walters.
Wasn't Glen Whelan left out of a couple of Stoke's games recently & Tony Pulis mentioned that he needed a rest as he would be representing, not only Rep of Ireland, but also Stoke City at the Euros? No mention by Pulis of Jon Walters representing Stoke in the same competition at the time.Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
His daughter spent most of her early life in hospital and that definitely impacted upon his early career. I think I recall reading somewhere that the primary reason he was prepared to drop down the divisions and join Chester was so that he could take care of her. Not sure how her health is now, but I don't think his commitment to us is in question. Family should be the priority and he's always spoken of his call-ups and time spent in Ireland when growing up with enthusiasm.Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
exactly and family would be the personal issue here.
His daughter had a serious condition at birth but that was surgically rectified after some setbacks.
We are reasonably flush with forwards. Walters dropping out wouldn't explain why McClean would gain an advantage.
I doubt if Trap would go for a balance of 7 backs, 9 midfielders and 4 forwards.
Why not? Thats the most common squad composition, its the composition we brought to the 2002 world cup (depending on how you classify Finnan and Duff). I would have said him bringing 5 forwards was the unusual decision but it was something he was willing to do given that he could use the likes of Walters as a backup wide player. If a forward backed out I'd say he'd go for an extra midfielder over someone like Best/Stokes/Sammon.Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
Fair enough point on McClean
The 2002 WC squad started out as a straight 8 8 4, then Keane left and McAteer got injured.
There is always a flexibility in different squads to move players around. That flexibility differs with each squad.
We have 5 front players who can play, unlike 2002 with Quinn (elderly and crocked), Connolly and Morrison. I think if one of the 5 pulled out, Trap would stick with the other 4 and choose a defender. Up to now Trap has regarded Walters as a forward option, that's where his main utility value lies.
I don't see him as a wide midfield option, anytime I've seen him defending he has looked cumbersome and he was certainly given the run around (when defending at RM) in his last game for Stoke.
If Walters was to drop out I'd imagine he'd pick Best if a like-for-like was sought. Trap likes a number 9 and Walters is competition for Doyle in that regard. Next in line is Best. Keane, Long and Cox are more in the style of English number 10s. Long & Walters have extra option value as they can conceivably fit in elsewhere - like wide right.
However, I also think Trap isn't immune to the popular clamour for McClean or ignorant of the logic of bringing him along so if it was JW to drop out he may just see it as an opportunity to bring him, without being disloyal to someone like Hunt.
I think trap sees Long as much more of a 9 than a 10. I don't think he'd go anywhere near best at this stage personally, if he was looking for an extra forward he'd take Keogh. Though a utility midfielder is where we have the greater strength and is where I think he'd go.
I think Best's ship might have sailed alright. Not enough pitch time.
No less than Hunt I'd imagine but doesnt have the brownie points built up that Hunt has.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
(I'm not anti Hunt by the way, toss of the coin between him and McLean for me)
Wilson and Gibson out of a friendly again, will be interesting to see if they stick to form and play 90 minutes for their clubs 3 days later as per usual. I think this is the 5th time out of 6 call ups Wilson has pulled out of a squad due to injury, an astonishing track record for someone who never seems to miss a game for Stoke.
Yeah it's not like Gibson came off last Wednesday after 19 minutes or anything and went straight down the tunnel. Moyes must be in on it too so. Btw, Everton don't play until the Monday. Please give an example of Gibson pulling out of a squad and playing 3 days later as you seem to think it is a regular occurrence.Quote:
Originally Posted by Murfinator
Can you provide proof of all this or are they just stats taken from thin air? You must have some memory to be fair to you if it's true.Quote:
Originally Posted by Murfinator
I just went back through a bit and this is the info I could find.
Wasn't in the Euro's Squad
Wasn't in the Czech Squad
Wasn't in the Estonian Squad
Wasn't in the Andorra/ Armenia Squad
Was named in the original 32 man squad for Russia/ Slovakia but didn't make the cut.
Was in the Croatia squad. Travelled over, Irish docs declared him unfit and was sent home
He did miss the Carling Cup games against Scotland & Northern Ireland(that's one pull out)
He was in the Macedonia/Uruguay squad but didn't play. Can't find any mention of him pulling out or being replaced. Just seems he didn't play.
Was in the Carling Cup Squad v Wales and played.
Now, maybe I've missed a couple of withdrawals, but I really just assume you plucked the figure out of thin air.