Also why is it we play so much worse with the lead?
Also why is it we play so much worse with the lead?
If they'd got a lucky late equaliser we'd all be laying into the team and ranting about its obvious deficiencies but as it happens, we won. so well done Ireland and the moaning can wait for another day.
RTE's post-game analysis was very unfair to him. Highlighted three or four bad passes but neglected to mention that they were all within the first 5 minutes and his passing was calm and collected from that point on. I did feel he was quieter than he needed to be though. Whelan had a very nervous game, particularly in possession, which is disappointing since he's just won his place back at Stoke and is playing some decent football.Quote:
Originally Posted by gastric
As good and vital as that tackle was from Gibson, you can't say it was a trademark Gibson tackle.
RTE panel differed slightly in opinions. Giles thinks the players could be encouraged to be more positive and it's the manager who stunts their natural game.
Dunphy who appears to have forgotten about Andy Reid these days, although he is pretty much the same player as he was a year ago, anyway he wants a CM of Fahey and Clark (which is an interesting theory), but then he wants Coleman in for McGeady.
Brady thinks that the players are not there, who can play the way that the others would like us to play. That yes we could play better with say an overlapping full back, but we could also get caught out and be losing games and what then?
The CM is a conundrum and pretty much at the heart of the way forward.
Dunphy also wants Clark to replace Kilbane at left-full and be the second centre-half. I think Clark is a very promising player but I really don't think we'd be able to put up much of a challenge with 9 players.
Good article up on Soccernet already. Trap saying Doyle will miss rest of the prem season 1-2 months with ligament damage but hopeful of him playing in June. That should thrill MM.
Also Trap "lashing out" at those who questioned his selection of Foley.
http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/st...ous%22?cc=5901
I wonder if the state of the pitch had anything to do with Kevin's injury. Even allowing for the rugby international last week, it was in absolutely abysmal shape. Tough break for Wolves, but I think Ebanks-Blake is marginally more suited to their passing style. Doyle's aerial ability encourages them to play long balls when really they don't need to.
It's a pity for Doyle because, even if Wolves had been relegated, good end-of-season form would have suitors lining up for him in the summer.
You know Charlie you may have a point as he clearly had gotten hurt or tweaked something a few minutes before he went down, staying in and tweaking it again. The second time he was like "Thats it I'm out Im out..."
I thought it was a torn ACL but seeing him walk off changed that... Also he didnt seem to be in the pain you usually see them in when they tear the ACL MCL or god forbid the PCL.
TBH being it is MM who manages Wolves, thought Trap could have been a little more sensitive with his comments. Not that he is thinking that in a post game interview being conducted in a language he hasn't quite mastered but yet.....
I seem to recall Doyle having a bit of trouble with his knee earlier on, so maybe it was not in great shape when he started the match?
decent performance, did enough although the danger was there that we would get caught out. shouldn't sit on a lead so much
foley, o'dea westwood all very good. mcgeady and duff did well. gibson was ok i thought better than ive seen of him before. whelan wasnt great though.
can anyone explain this to me? they said that in the event of teams tieing on points it goes down to records in matches against each other. so if us russia and slovakia all finish on equal points. but russia have a better record against us, slovakia have a better record against russia and we have a better record against slovakia who comes first , second and third?
Yeah Tricky great point, hard to say right?
I mean, at first he seemed to kind of reaggravate something so you may very well be right. I hate to try to read too much into it but he seemed to kind of expect it. Second time he seemed to realize it just wasn't happening.
I doubt he was 100% going into today. And I mean I hope that is the case. I would hate to blame England/EIRE rugby on a 4 month ligament issue. (Or 1-2 as Trap says.)
I'd like to know this too.Quote:
Originally Posted by the bear
Bear is goal differential the tie break?
PS dont worry the table will be all different when all is said and dunne.
Dont waste your time. Arent you to come out of hibernation and eat your young anyway?
My Player ratings
Westwood - 7.5 (Kicked well, commanded well, dealt with the 1v1. Promising show)
Foley - 6 (Nice passing and seemed composed but his positioning seemed very very flat, saw Duff looking over his shoulder countless times looking for him in support and he was never there. Filled in fine but won't worry JOS)
O'Dea - 5 (Quiet and seemed to let Dunne romp around and sweep any danger rather than command his own area like St Ledger would)
Dunne - 6 (Commited and in charge. Made a "mistake" for the goal but not an unforgivable one. Would blame Kilbane moreso for letting him cut in and run at Dunne.
Kilbane - 6 (Lively, caught out for the goal but otherwise felt played reasonably well. Assured in possession, had infinitely better delivery from his crosses than McGeady and probably justified his selection)
Whelan - 2 (Woeful, supposedly a DM yet happily let Macedonia control possession and run rampant through the centre. Didn't tackle, didn't get involved in attacks and only reminded people he was on the pitch when he got involved in some keep-ball towards the end of the game)
Gibson - 7 (Reasonably pleased with his showing and represents an infinitely better midfield option than green. Got stuck in defensively a reasonable amount and did seem to have a great commanding presence in the middle than we're used to. Passed well but never got in shooting range.
McGeady - 7 (Lucky goal, great running and tricks, mixed end product. The usual story but he is steadily getting better)
Duff - 9 (MOM but then he is in most of our matches anyway. Passed well, ever getting something positive out of possession and put in a massive shift in defence to cover for the at times wayward Foley)
Keane - 7 (Some clever touches, good reactions for the goal. Worked with what he was given.
Long - 1 (Dreadful, everytime he got the ball the move broke down. His decisions were poor, his positioning was poor, his temperament was questionable. Perhaps all justified by a kick to the head by nonetheless a poor performance)
Overall I didn't understand why our gameplan consisted of so many high balls into the box considering Macedonia dominated us in the air. I could understand it while Doyle was on the pitch as he's a semi-decent jumper but when Keane and Long were in the box every cross broke down and we seemed clueless how to attack them.
The wingers were often doubled up on to stop them cutting infield and the centre midfield didn't offer support so I wonder how exactly they planned to make breakthroughs without the Doyle route.
It works on a mini-table excluding other results. For example right now Slovakia are on 4 points as they've beaten Russia and drawn to us, Russia have 3 from beating us and we have 1 from the Slovakia draw. If we all ended up on equal points in that regard it'd go to goal difference making it incredibly unlikely goal difference will be worth anything.Quote:
Originally Posted by the bear
I think you may be a little sensationalist in your ratings, Murf...
Holy Christmas, Thank God Murf, we were all eagerly awaiting your player ratings.
Whew.
:clock::yin-yang:
Would mainly agree with the Murf. We were generally mediocre, but luckily they played like a crap Sunday side in the first half. Though we toook our goals very well.
2 moments of class in a sea of sh*te.
A fitful performance at best.
And if McCarthy's a 'wunderkid' then many of the rest of the team need to improve by 200% to carry the poor sod.
ill prob just rob a few pick-a-nick basketsQuote:
Originally Posted by Crosby87
Inexperience. :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Crosby87
Is it not a case of the opposition playing better? It's the same in most sports, favourites are expected to do the job and have the pressure to get it done, underdogs start off to do their best and disrupt the oppositions flow. Macedonia were let off the leash at 2-0 down and while leaving gaps at the back were out to attack. Croatia lost last night to a decent Georgia team because they were expected to win but despite their pressure conceded a goal against play and then couldn't pull one back. Croatia would be considered better than us against a far weaker Georgian side but just couldn't do it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Crosby87
Macedonia let loose at 2-0 having been cautious in counter attacks before.
The team has always had deficiencies. Remember 1999?Quote:
Originally Posted by boovidge
It's a load of rubbish imo, as nobody has played each other twice yet. When and if the teams are all level on October 11th at 8pm, we can go through the results with a fine tooth comb and look up who won what, where, and why.Quote:
Originally Posted by Murfinator
We got the result we needed. Played well in the first half, scrapped it out in the second. With just 1 of the next 4 games at home, if we get a few results on the road, we'll still be in a strong position going into the final weekend.
I think media scales aren't sensational enough to be honest, usually ranging from 5 (poor) to 8 (brilliant).Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
I thought our attacking game went wayward when Long came on and he contributed nothing to the system we were playing. All his shots were wide, all his passes, mislaid, he was dominated aerially and bar once didn't make any worthwhile runs into space.
Whelan's one and only job is to be a strong presence off the ball, hassle and harry the opposition in midfield, dispossess them and generally interrupt and disrupt their rhythm. He didn't do this in the slightest and let them pick their attacks with ease.
Both had their poorest game in an Irish shirt and deserve their rating.
A few things in perspective - well, from my usual glass-half-full viewpoint:
* Central midfield is still a problem & has been for a decade more or less. All of the justifiable criticisms of the performance boils down to this issue. We need an Alex Song type player - an athlete who can anchor midfield. Gibson would thrive with one of these, and McCarthy too I reckon.
* We're not good enough at catenaccio - Bulgaria, Norway, Macedonia and others have shown us that when we cede initiative in games we're not good enough to rely on being able to keep the opposition away.
* We won a "banana skin" game without Given, JOS and SSL, with a not-match-fit Keane and Dunne, with a makeshift left-back, a 4th choice CB, without Kevin Doyle for most of the game and without both of his natural replacements (Best & Walters).
* There were some very good individual performances and some decent ones.
* The McCarthy issue has been put to bed
* Duff is invaluable
* We actually saw out the last 10 quite well
* Dunne's absence from Macedonia necessitates JOS and SSL being back I reckon.
* Clark, Coleman, McCarthy, Wilson, Best, Walters are all pressing hard for a place in the next few months. Cunningham may well be come the autumn. Westwood, Foley, Fahey can all expect to keep theirs. O'Dea did well last night and if that's what we can expect from our 4th choice CB then that's OK by me.
edit: of course we also have Stephen Hunt to come back into the reckoning. He's no Duffer but we all know that he brings something important.
I think we may see a 4-5-1 including McCarthy in Macedonia, though with our injury record making any team predictions or recommendations at this point would be daft.
Special mention to Tardelli - great celebrations.
I must agree. I definitely think he took one for the team when they were really threatening. And at a time in the game when they were really confident.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
Thought Fahey should have come on for Whelan to be honest. He's asimilar player but Whelan a bit off the pace. Fahey very neat and tidy.
Westwood did really well and, dare i say, he's looked more comfortable between the sticks than Given has in a long time. If I'm being honest, I shudder every time Given gets a back pass these days.
Foley did really well I thought.
Duff and McGeady were excellent throughout
This is the only thing that really concerns me about the Irish team. We try to play a system that we're clearly not able to play. It's like we invite the opposition onto us, which is fine if you can handle it, but teams no better than average are able to cause us real problems when they get at our defence. It's frustrating to see us give the ball away so easily when it's clear we can be hurt defensively.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
Other than that, a good night apart from Doyle's injury. Central mid struggled as always, but we looked good up front (I thought Long did ok when he came on), McGeady and Duff did well, and no mistakes by Foley or O'Dea, both of whom had good individual moments also.
David Meyler would be my suggestion. Big, strong lad, very aggressive, but a good footballer too. Hopefully he can come back from his injuries... he's actually due back soon so maybe he'll get a run-out in May. Trap actually included him in the Paraguay/Algeria squads last year before his cruciate injury.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
Yes the days of 'put 'em under pressure' are long dead. It seems when opposition have the ball we just fall back to the edge of our box and say 'have a go there lads'....
Watched the match on RTE player this morning. The cameras probably didn't do justice to how abysmal Gibson was. When watching live, its obvious that his off the ball movement is just shocking. Particularly with the two wingers cutting inside, he needed to be available for a pass.
Some other thoughts
1) McGeady has improved. He was successful going inside and outside the left full. I think the wingers should occasionally swap flanks. Duff isn't as devoid of pace as we thought, and I think on the left side he can put in much better balls.
2) Midfield was shocking. Aside from one or two good tackles and the free kick, Gibson was poor. Whelan gave the ball away constantly. He failed to complete a pretty simple one-two with McGeady. Now if they were providing a good cover for the back four, the bad ball playing could be excused. But they are not even doing that. I hope that McCarthy is capable of playing CM in a 4-4-2 system, as both Whelan and Gibson aren't up to par
3) McCarthy issue sorted, and in spite of only being on for 4 minutes or so, showed that he could be a serious footballer. Some nice passes and a tackle in our 3rd.
4) Fahey looked composed and is a better CM option than the two startes.
5) Westwood was excellent today
6) I was disappointed that Kevin Kilbane started, however he had a fairly decent game. This could free up Clark to fill in at centre-half or in midfield, depending on whats required.
7) Long looked better live than on TV, but still wasn't a good shift. He's pacy and he's a finisher, but he isn't going to be much use in the Kevin Doyle role.
8) Panel jumped down Bill's throat and claimed that the bad football was the reason for the bad crowd. The boys took up the working man's cause saying the recession is the reason. While I think that's a contributing factor, I think the success of the Rugby team (The Irish are class-A event junkies) and the lack of success of the football team (not the on-pitch style) also add to this problem. I'm sure there are 10 times more corporate seats in the Aviva than there were at Lansdowne Road, which also probably leads to empty seats.
Westwood looks the complete goalkeeper, with another display like that in the away game, Shay will have a job to get back in.
Lads i hope meyler does turn out to be excellent but the kid has played less than 20 games for sunderland. Its hard to know if he will be technically good enough at international level where every misplaced pass is focused on. his athletic ability is his main asset which is great for the premiership. At sunderland he would be the artisan to hendersons artist. Not fair to build him up and then abuse him when he is not a combination of desailly and zidaneQuote:
Originally Posted by Supreme feet
I thought that was Gibson's best game for us. He made the second goal (great finish by Keane. Most player would have blasted the ball straight back at the keeper). He made one fantastic tackle in the second half and he took one for the team giving away a free kick when we looked outnumbered at the back (Gibson rightly had a go at Long for giving the ball straight back to the Macedonians). I felt the kick in the head Long got affected his game ( and it was a nasty one). He continued to win balls in the air but his distribution was poor and he seemed to hesitate a lot. This led to the ball coming straight back and and also allowed the Macedonians to push an extra player into midfield. It made it that much harder for the CM. If Doyle had have remained fit I believe the match would have been over by half time. We missed his ability to hold the ball up and bring Gibson and Whelan into the game more. Special mentions for Westwood fnd Dunne. I love it when a keeper comes out and collects the ball in the air. And his save was worth two points. Dunne would not have played for Villa yesterday if it had have been a club match weekend IMO. He was neither physically or match fit. He still made three last ditch interceptions ( he makes them look easy).
The rugby team got pathetic crowds for the SA, Samoa and Argentina games last November.Quote:
Originally Posted by danonion
Cut the ticket prices. Introduce cheaper tickets for people who are unemployed/low wage earners and certain categories of students. Very low price schoolboy tickets.
He also made the first: watch the header he won (who'd have thought it?) that led to McGeady getting the ball. For me Whelan was the weaker link. Gibson had some fight in him last night.Quote:
Originally Posted by Noelys Guitar
Funny, for a team that is so poor defending a lead, under Trap we have scored an awful lot of early goals. Quite a few inside 5 minutes and plenty inside the first 20. I think that's why watching Ireland is bad for the nerves.
ah now really.Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
First 40 minutes was the best we've played since Paris. Usual bad habits crept in with a lack of concentration from initially Kilbane getting turned by Pandev and then Dunne for their goal. Disappointing to give away right on half time, changed the game totally, I think we'd have had an easy 2nd half had we gone in two up at the break. Nervy second half till about 75 minutes when I thought we started controlling the game again. Finished very strongly and were comfortable till full time. Far more positives then negatives from the game, very happy with the 3 points. I expect to see changes by the time we play them again in June, I think McCarthy may well play himself into the team over the next 3 games and the same goes for Clark....
He's never failed to deliver in that regard. His USP if anything!Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
He is one player when I look at him I actually believe in this team over and over. He just gives everything.Quote:
Originally Posted by Noelys Guitar
We are very lucky to have him at this stage considering how his career could have gone.
Remember the bad old days when he was younger we would groan when he was in defence. Looking at him now it's hard to believe he was ever like that.
The true Captain of the team without a shadow of doubt.