It should be part of the league licence really, clubs should have to enter an U16 and Youth team. They could operate it in two pools, North and South to minimise travel expenses. 22 LoI clubs would equate to two pools of 11. Could throw in a few A Championship clubs as well who are serious in their intent in developing football.
If Youth structure's i.e. U16 and Youth were set-up, it would operate in pools like:
North:
Derry City
Finn Harps
Sligo
Monaghan
Longford
Dundalk
Drogheda
Athlone
Galway
Salthill
Mervue
South:
Cork City
Waterford
Wexford
Limerick
Bray
Bohemians
Shamrock
Fingal
Pat's
UCD
Shelbourne
Maybe to a small extent but I remember plenty of Sligo Rovers teams with a good few local lads in the team and the crowds were not anything special in those days.Quote:
Originally Posted by bingoballs
Football is a global game. I would not expect clubs to limit their pool to their locality. My call is for youth structures to be put in place so the better youth players can work to the top but naturally players would come in from elsewhere as well.
Basically, you made a factual error there and when I pointed it out you threw up a smokescreen and well, I guess that you've been studying the J Delaney handbook there.Quote:
And your point is.....?
I agree about each club having a full youth set up, BUT do you honestly think it is financially viable? There is not a hope on hell clubs could afford another whack load of expenses like that on travel.Quote:
Originally Posted by legendz
If they didn't do the right things (which they haven't), first mover advantage is ******.Quote:
Originally Posted by dcfcsteve
I know there is that. Expanding the idea further, if 10 additional regions could provide a team, e.g from the A Championship: Tralee, Carlow, Tullamore, Cobh, Tullamore, Castlebar etc, there could be four groups of 8. It's a hard one. There is the finances but also for football to develop, it needs a structure. If a competition was formed with sponsorship, it would be a help.Quote:
Originally Posted by Roo69
Most clubs find the A Championship and U20s team a big financial burden, just couldn't see them going for a league were for example, Bray had to travel down to Cork one week and then maybe down to Limerick etc the next week.Quote:
Originally Posted by legendz
If you had a club from each of the 6 counties of Munster, plus Cobh and one more, I don't think it'd be Bray, travel is being kept minimal. I understand fully where you are coming from. If it's not economically viable, it'd have no chance of ever happening. It's bad for the league though, youth structures is where any foundations should be built.
While it would be an extra financial burden, I think the idea of making clubs field more teams and at a national level where possible is a good one. It should have the effect of diverting funds away from the first team wages and increase the chances of the LOI clubs getting the best youngsters aboard with the least disruption of existing leagues (the last thing the schoolboy leagues want is LOI clubs joining and dominating them by hoovering up the better players).
It also gets more people involved with the club- the aim should be to convert those youngsters who don't make it into fans.
The first step should be to expand the number of games in the U20 league. Currently it's hard to keep players interested because there's just so few matches. Also, integrating the likes of the Kennedy cup with the LOI clubs would be a step in the right direction.
Legendz - you and a few other posters on here always do this.Quote:
Originally Posted by legendz
Why do you perceive the solution to the league's problems being to create more teams in non-footballing areas ? Why would anyone in Dublin turn out to watch one of the many teams there just because Clare had an underage side in the Irish footballing pyramid ?
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Originally Posted by legendz
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Originally Posted by legendz
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Originally Posted by legendz
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Originally Posted by legendz
Do you think that Under 16 and Youth Level teams are important Legendz?;)Quote:
Originally Posted by legendz
So for once England will be following the Irish model :o. Always thought we focus too much on the EPL fans here many of whom will never attend a game (on either side of the Irish sea) and are armchair/bar stool fans as likely to be watching a "big" GAA game or Rugby match as a "soccer" match. trying to entice them to LOI is a waste of time in my opinion.Quote:
Originally Posted by bingoballs
We need to profile a realistic target market and then seek to attract it to LOI. I suspect that the potential number would be a lot less than many think/hope (but more than currently attending.)
Well you know, I'm not talking about an overnight success. I would see it as something the league should work to. The A Championship is a good addition at the moment. I wouldn't see any need for additions to the LoI unless it was shown a few more clubs could hold a Division One licence etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by dcfcsteve
I wouldn't be so sure about that Bingballs.Quote:
Originally Posted by bingoballs
A correction is undoubtedly overdue and needed in English football, and it's only a matter of time before a club hits the wall (if only the Revenue would grow some balls and deliver the killer blow when they should e.f. Portsmouth). But it's likely to be the smaller clubs that go first.
Football also operates within its own little world largely insulated from normal economic conditions, norms and behaviours. For example - English football's rule that footballing debts must always be paid first reduce the likelihood of the collapse of one club doing much to negatively impact any others. The government/tax men should kill that particular rule, as it's just wrong on so many different levels. Even in Scottish football - with a fraction of the value of the English system - it's the banks that keep the likes of Rangers afloat as they don't want to be the organisation that pulls the rug from under a massively popular institution. Hence the big football clubs in Britain get away with things no other business would (and no smaller club would either).
So unfortunately I can see the English bubble staying inflated for quite some time. That's not to say that it'll continue to grow - it might just stall at a bloated level for a while. Whilst a correction is overdue, I don't think it's in any great hurry. The fact that there are still rich people - and even countries - seemingly queuing up to buy EPL clubs shows that for every sugar daddy that goes there's another one waiting in the wings.
P.S. Don't forget also that 'carryiong significant amount of debts' appears to have largely been the motivation and interest in Man Utd from the Glazers. There are canny business people out there who WANT their assets to be loaded with debt, as it serves the purposes of their broader financial dealings. So far form killing interest in football debt appears to be both the result of and the sustaining element within some investment in the game.
The Financial Fair Play Rules should bring some amount of balance to the crazy spending.
Bringing this back to an earlier discussion, Rovers-Pats is the lead soccer story on the Times website this morning and second-lead sports story: http://www.irishtimes.com/sports/soccer/
Haven't seen the physical edition yet but it's probably the same.
What's the general view on the A Championship? Has it been a good addition to the league?
My not-quite-girlfriend-but-I-still-have-met-the-parents is Dutch, and when I was over there a few weeks ago, I was astonished at how dissimilar to Germany Holland is. Completely different culture and outlook on life, and the same could be said about all the rest of my travels through Europe. Bavaria is less of a slave to Berlin than Ireland is to the UK. We listen to the same music, we adopt the same idiom, we have a very similar outlook on life, which extends far beyond the football teams of choice for the vast majority of the population. If you didn't recognise the accent, you couldn't tell whether you were walking down the street in Dublin, Cork, Birmingham or Cardiff.
As for the football side of the discussion, I've spent the last year in Scotland, and they seem far more proud of all things Scottish than we do about Irish culture. You'll rarely meet a Glaswegian who takes any more than a passing interest in English football, despite all the great Scottish players who have played there over the years, for example. They have all of the exact same excuses as we do, right down to the poor standard outside the Old Firm, the difference is, they don't seem to rationalise selling out their national league as deftly as Irish people seem to.
Easy said for them as part of the UK (England):D (nitpicking-sorry!)Quote:
Originally Posted by peadar1987
The league of Ireland hasn't helped itself though in fairness. Having been a closed circle of 22 clubs for so long, it'll take a lot of work for things to improve.
Hi guys.
Just thought I'd add my two cents' worth, from a media slant.
I was part of the editorial team which launched men's sport and lifestyle website Joe.ie earlier this year. At the start, trying to make the best use of our resources, it was decided that League of Ireland coverage would be held back until after the World Cup. That coverage has started over the past month in the shape of a weekly column (in much the same way, say, as the Guardian treats La Liga, Serie A and the Bundesliga).
The Joe site is on a national scale, with the target demographic of 18- to 44-year-old Irish males, which covers both the majority of regular attendees at League of Ireland grounds and a massive potential audience countrywide. Of the 22 League of Ireland clubs, one has contacted the Joe office since the site launched in April. Emails have been sent to three other clubs over the past month. One club has responded to those emails.
Although I acknowledge that clubs are also struggling for resources and in many cases may be stretched to the limit, I think it's fair to say that most could be doing more to promote themselves.
I'm a League of Ireland devotee, and previously worked on the now defunct eleven-a-side.com site for a number of years. I come from Co Meath, so unfortunately I have no allegiance to any League of Ireland club and can only envy the tribal belonging that genuine fans of League of Ireland clubs enjoy. Or maybe that should read "fortunately", as it allows me some level of objectivity.
***Plug alert***
You can read my thoughts on the League of Ireland every Wednesday. This week's piece is on the Neale Fenn-Dundalk-Shamrock Rovers love-hate triangle, which can be read here.
From Meath, has no league club allegiance as a result. I see this as part of the problem the league has. In Scotland a few years ago, I thought some new clubs were formed when they expanded to 4 divisions so that more regions would be represented. Something similar would do for the league of Ireland, get every county represented, even if it's in the A ChampionshipQuote:
Originally Posted by shaneb
Except Scotland has a highly-organised junior soccer structure (Highland League, South of Scotland League, East of Scotland League). I'd love to see teams from Meath, Clare, Laois etc, in the League too, but the best way would be to gradually convert the A Championship into a division made up solely of senior teams, the FAI could invite the top junior clubs in unrepresented areas to sign up.
That's what I'd be looking to as well. Everything is gradual progression though, the A Championship is a good interim league in a way for the moment. Long term, it should be part of the FAI strategy to get as many regions as possible represented. With costs of travel etc. which have to be taken into account, the answer would be a Division Two split North and South. At least 16 clubs would be needed to make that a possibility, 8 in each section.
Fully agree that the LOI can be doing more to promote itself, and it's great to see a website taking some interest.Quote:
Originally Posted by shaneb
As an aside on the article itself, I enjoyed reading it, but are you sure that 'Come on the Town' has been a refrain at Oriel Park for decades? And secondly, Rovers aren't going for their 4th title in six years, as you say at the end of the 8th paragraph (You get it right near the end of the article, when you say they're chasing a first title in 16 years).
Hope to see more of these articles on a site I'd never heard of until 10 minutes ago (although I do disagree with a few opinions you've expressed there).
Not to go on but I will... the league's essential problem for me is that it does not cover enough regions of Ireland. I'd see the Premier and Division One being ok but another tier with a North/South split should be added. The A Championship is a good interim league but it's not the long-term solution.
The FAI have it right on the Premier. The country is only likely to be able to sustain about 10-12 professional clubs. Averaging that out across the country, that's about 2 each for both Munster and Connaught/Ulster, and then 3-4 clubs for both North Dublin/North Leinster and South Dublin/South Leinster.
If it was possible to add a proper third tier probably of amatuer/semi-pro clubs, Division One should be reduced to 10 clubs made up of pro/semi-pro clubs.
China funnily enough have a structure I'd see Ireland needing, they have a Super League (tier 1), the second tier is called League One and the third tier is called League Two with a North Division and a South Division.
How is that working out for them? (Genuine question)Quote:
Originally Posted by legendz
China is hardly demographically similar to here though, and they don't play hurling.:)
This is their split.
Chinese Super League: 16 clubs
League One: 13 CLubs
League Two North and South: 5 Clubs each
My point is on the 3 tier system, in Ireland the aim should be, 10 club Premier (pro league) as it is, 10 club Division One (pro/semi-pro) and a Division Two North and South (semi-pro/amateur) with at least 8 clubs in each section. With 2 clubs from Division One and 5 from the A Championship, 9 more would be needed for the creation of a Div 2 North and South. You have to look at regions not represented, it could be possible in the long long-term.
No new clubs were formed. Some were elected from the non-league. Problem is here, no clubs really want to step up.Quote:
Originally Posted by legendz
It probably will take time with the A Championship I guess.
Yeah, it's starting alright. And it's worth noting that the last time there was a gap in the Scottish Leagues (when Gretna went bang), there were only two or three clubs looking to be elected to Division Three. But forming new clubs isn't the way to go about things. Tralee Dynamoes and FC Carlow and Castlebar Celtic is the way it needs to go - existing clubs with existing structures and existing local links.
Carlow are a new club. Completely new afaik
Doing things the right way though. Start low and build.
In Munster with Cork, Limerick, Waterford and now Tralee represented, it'd be good to see Clonmel and Ennis join the A Championship. Carlow as said, are a new club. Links can be built and any clubs will need to gain support from their regions if they are to develop.
Oh. Was there nothing there before? Was there a SEFC that it grwe out of or something?Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodge
Eventually I'd love to see clubs from places like Kilkenny, Kildare, Navan, North Tipp (Nenagh/Roscrea), South Tipp (Clonmel), Mullingar, Ennis, and North Cork (Mallow/Mitchelstown) playing in the league. However, if we were to do it now, all that would have been achieved would be to start off several unsustainable clubs that the local population wouldn't particularly want. Before we think about aggressively expanding the league, we have to raise its profile. Clubs not going bust every season would be a start, and then we can think about nationwide promotional campaigns, and upgrading the facilities to something slicker than what we already have. A few seasons of a league with twenty-something sustainable clubs playing in front of decent attendances in clean, non-crumbly grounds, and these regions will want to start entering teams in the league of their own free will.
Any proposal put forward here has some or alot of or complete sense, any could work and all are worth a discussion. However I do wonder if what makes us less attractive as a league is the absence of a proper pyramid structure. We can leave the PD and 1st as they are, the A Championship too, but linking up all the leagues and removing the us and them divide is possibly the only way forward - instead of a club having to be elected into the league. I believe everyone who follows or is involved with the LOI has at least once in their lives had to explain to a non-local the fact that we don't have a working pyramid structure. When you look at other countries, small clubs who jumped up the divisions have settled at a level (or gone bust) but it's still a way to, maybe, progress senior football in Ireland.
I thought these comments from former Arsenal defender/Stan cap Joe O'Cearuill were bluntly refreshing about the league. Although I find it funny an English-born Irish player saying he didn't enjoy living in Ireland (then again, plenty of Irish-born Irish people would probably agree right now). Might be rethinking things now he's lining out for the mighty Forest Green, mind.
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“I wasn’t happy living in Ireland,” he said. “I didn’t get on with the other players, I had no social life, so it wasn’t the best of times for me. Also I got injured and that didn’t make it easy.
“I wasn’t entirely happy with the standard of the League of Ireland. Bohemians were good, Cork were okay and Derry as well, but the rest were not the best. When Brian Kerr left the club I didn’t fancy it any more. He was very encouraging to me, he had a lot of experience and signed a lot of good players, but we underachieved with what we had.
“I was looking forward to playing in the UEFA Cup and I played well in the game away to Elfsborg. That was good for my confidence, but it’s hard to motivate yourself against the lesser teams away from home, with their poor stadiums and small crowds. The league wasn’t run properly and that wasn’t encouraging for me as a young player trying to make his way in the game. Overall, I was homesick and missed my family and girlfriend, and didn’t play to my potential. I’m disappointed with that. However, I did learn a lot from living on my own.”
http://greenscene.me/2010/09/spotlight-joe-ocearuill/
I wouldn't look at aggressively expanding the league. The A Championship as it is is a good interim league. Like anything, there has to be a long-term goal. It has to be hoped if enough clubs successfully join the A Championship, it could lead to the creation of a Division Two.Quote:
Originally Posted by peadar1987
I know some people lament the fact that sides face each other 4 times in the Premier but 10-12 professional clubs is the most the league can hope for.