Is Clinton Morrison better than Jason Byrne? :confused: Kevin Doyle is already a better player than Morrison, and he's only played one season in England, and only played twice for Ireland!!Quote:
Originally Posted by pete
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Is Clinton Morrison better than Jason Byrne? :confused: Kevin Doyle is already a better player than Morrison, and he's only played one season in England, and only played twice for Ireland!!Quote:
Originally Posted by pete
How would Clinton Morrisson or even the perpetually maligned Wavey Davy Connolly do in the eL? Extremely well I'd guess.
But that's not the point as far as I can see it. Relative fitness of the el vs England isn't the point either.
The point is that we should have FIVE forwards in the squad. Regardless of how you'd rank them I'd say most accept that Keane, Doyle, Elliott & Morrisson are the top four. Each is of similar build and athletic ability. But who is there as the "Doherty option" ? Excluding Doherty as he's just not good enough the only real options are Byrne, Lee and maybe, if he starts to get a regular game, Daryl Murphy. At the moment Byrne is the man in possession. He's done nothing to lose his place and his "competition" has done nothing to earn theirs. It also appears that Elliott's fitness can't be guaranteed for consistent stretches.
It'd be extremely harsh to drop Byrne particularly after having given a good account of himself agaist Chile. I have to be honest though and say that when I've looked for Byrne to do well against good European opposition he's snatched at quite a few of his chances and could have done better. I'd hope that even his strongest supporters would agree with me. It's not a terminal failing, just fair criticism.
Also, Martin Jol has played Robbie withdrawn, behind Defoe & Berbatov, in all Spurs' preseason games since Robbie returned from a neck injury. By all accounts he's been playing very well & all three seem to relish their roles. It's not stretching it to think that deploying Robbie in a similar role for Ireland is an option, even if only as a temporary strategy if a game's circumstances warrant it, and this copperfastens the need for five forwards in my opinion.
On Morrisson: yes, he's limited but I'd still be inclined to pick him for Stutggart unless club form or the Dutch game suggests otherwise. Morrisson for 55 minutes & Doyle for 35mins in Stuttgart makes sense to me.
Morrison is a very poor player, he lacks pace, touch, guile, invention, his offside display away to the faroes was embarassing...But sadly that is the state of play. Morrison and Doherty in all their awfulness still remain options upfront for us:eek:
No, I'd say most accept that Keane is 1 & possibly Doyle is 2, after that there will be little agreement. Personally I'd put Jason Byrne at 3 (possibly 2, not quite sure whether Doyle is really better - he certainly wasn't scoring more goals in the same league, but he has age on his side) and the rest a very distant 4th,5th,etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
Doherty is hopeless. Hate to have to slag off the fella but I'd probably have a better chance of scoring than he does.
Morrison is getting a bit of stick on here but he has never let us down. His hunger and running often puts some of the other lads to shame.
Ok Clinton is no Shevchenko but he can do a job for us and make a good impact sub. Doyle seems to have leapfrogged him in the pecking order so it's unlikely Clinton will start against the Dutch and Germans but if called upon I'm sure he'll make an impression.
Byrne impressed me when he made his debut, won a lot of headers and if we need a target man for the last 10 minutes I'd prefer to see him run on over Doherty.
He hardly got a touch on his debut, he did ok in his 2nd game though ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by shakermaker1982
Clinton morrison is miles better than Jason Byrne.Quote:
Originally Posted by mypost
I'd agree with most of Stuttgart's post.
Morrison is indeed better than Byrne but that doesn't make Morrisson very good either. Lets face it there a drought of decent irish forwards. Saying all that Byrne is entitled to take this 5th choice forward role as there is no one else.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodge
I know Dr. Peepee & others have disagreed with me on this point but against Switzerland when we needed a goal late on, Kerr took Robbie off. Personally I'd have brought on Elliott to partner Morrisson and left Robbie just in behind them. That way we'd have had 3 forwards on the pitch & a goal would have been more likely. It's not impossible that a similar re-jig may be required in future. Robbie'd be even harder to mark.Quote:
Originally Posted by totalfootball
Anyway, by all accounts Robbie's form so far has been brilliant, setting up goals, forcing savers & hitting the woodwork. But, as you suggest, he has two very good forwards ahead of him at Spurs to interact with. We don't have that luxury at the moment unless Doyle & Elliott step up to the plate.
Morrisson is better than Byrne.However, what we don't have is a striker that can offer what Byrne can in terms of being a 'target' man.Byrne is better than Alan Lee & Gary Doherty.Daryl Murphy is not yet good enough, and in my opinion will not be.
Also, in the last campaign, we had many chances to score through set pieces and so forth.However we had no one with the physical prescence to execute these chances.
So it's Keane, then Doyle or Morrison, the either or both Elliott and Byrne.I think 5 strikers should be in the squad.
However none of this matters as I seem to remember reading on this forum that Bobby Robson said Byrne would never be part of the squad again:rolleyes:
Could have been just the grumblings of a disgruntled poster worse for wear spreading unsubstantiated rumours late in the evening (that thread was locked 5 seconds later).Quote:
Originally Posted by Soper
What I remember Bobby being quoted as saying was that Jason could improve his fitness levels.
I would be very very surprised if this happened... Keane was by far and away Spurs best striker last season and as well as scoring goals his all-round play was superb. Also hasn't he been captaining in Ledley King's absence???Quote:
Originally Posted by totalfootball
now i know its unlikely but, what if Macken at palace were to deliver a decent season, say, managing about one in 3 and having 10+ by Christmas in all comps, and in the process forging an understanding with Morrisson(who i beileve will start v holland and, barring a mare, also the germans).Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
would he then not come into the reckoning, even as a last 20mins player if we are chasing it, next to Morrisson with Keane tucked in behind the 2 of them?
given the much of a muchness between many of our lads compteing for the back-up striking spots, i dont think we can completely rule him out if he's doing ok.
Well, you say yourself it's unlikely! I wouldn't rule anyone out but I think the fifth forward role should be for someone who offers something different & at the moment Byrne's the man in possession. It's up to him to lose it or someone else to earn it. If Macken can earn it then good luck to him. I think the same applies to Alan Lee & Daryl Murphy. I also think Trundle could be considered and maybe even Andy Keogh or Adam Rooney in time. Maybe Stan is already planning on including young Dixon. Who knows? Maybe Stan'll go for 4 forwards bearing in mind he may think of Duff or Andy Reid as back-up options.
But you're right in saying that nobody can be "completely ruled out" if they're playing well enough - we have very few resources - but in Macken's case I just don't see it happening. I'd prefer to see Trundle given a shot than Macken.
How do eL fans rate Stephen Ward? Potential to become a full international?
I thought he was good for our U21s.
Not IMO. Lacks a fair bit. Wouldn't rank him in the top 10 strikers in the league and for someone who's looking to play international football within a couple of years you'd want him to stand out more. Bohs fans I know rate him highly though
yes Byrne is the man in posession, and rightly so as present, but wont his season end in mid-winter?
and the 'something different' being sought by this, and indeed, our prevoius manager, up front, is a bit of height and target man presence,as the game on the islands isnt technically proficient enough to play without one.
this is why somewhat limited (in international terms) guys like Byrne, Macken, Doherty and Lee have been selected, as we miss the big guy to hit.and i believe IF mr. Macken were to begin well, he would come back into the fold quicker than many people think, for this reason.
I would expect Lee to return to the squad as soon as he is fit and provided he is getting his game at Ipswich. I would be shocked ( pleasantly ) if Jason Byrne played in any qualifying game bar the against a minnow side.
Any thoughts?
He should be a regular in the Ireland squad anyway if the move goes through.
Don't ever stick a posting like this in the Ireland thread. Pete and Gustavo will have a fit.Quote:
Originally Posted by JC_GUFC
Just buzzin but they will.
That sounds like the thoughts of a signed up member of the ole ole brigade...No discussion allowed of Irish players who play for Eircom League sides in the international section, even if they are moving to a club in another country.Quote:
Originally Posted by JC_GUFC
;)
Keep the sarcasm to the Ward thread if you wish.Quote:
Originally Posted by JC_GUFC
It is relevant here though as he has been in the squad in the last year and there have been threads about him here before. It certainly cant do his chances any harm especially if he starts banging them in . Although isnt he only over there for a week though on trial.
Perfectly relevant but that's not the reason JC_GUFC posted it. :) This will be one of the most interesting EL in a long time if it goes through. If he goes on to get about 20 goals next season then it'll do much more to EL prices than Doyle's transfer did.Quote:
Originally Posted by gustavo
Shelbourne has confirmed that striker Jason Byrne is to move to Cardiff City for an undisclosed sum.
Dublin-born Byrne, a cousin of Tottenham and Republic of Ireland international forward Robbie Keane, has scored over 100 goals in the last four Eircom League seasons.
Byrne (28) played for Bray Wanderers before joining Shelbourne for whom he scored 30 league and cup goals in 2005, including five in the Champions League.
In a brief statement released this afternoon, Shelbourne said that Byrne, who recently had a week's trial at Ninian Park, was joining the championship club subject to passing a medical examination.
"We wish to thank Jason for the many great moments he gave us over the last number of years and wish him every success in the future," the club said.
Byrne, who has two senior international caps to his name, joins former West Ham goalkeeper David Forde at Cardiff, after he signed a two-year-deal from Derry City at the start of the year.
Cardiff currently lie in 8th place in the Coca-Cola Championship.
The news comes as a serious blow to Shelbourne who have lost a number of high-profile players recently. The Eircom League club must also resume their search for a successor to Pat Fenlon after Pete Mahon told the board of UCD that he has turned down a chance to take over the reins at Tolka Park.
© 2007 ireland.com
He signs for an English club and straghtaway gets his own thread in the Ireland forum
You people are beyond pathetic :rolleyes: :p :D
I am sure the people in Cardiff will be delighted to know that you think they're English :p .
Actually, I should have posted in the JASON BYRNE thread and apologies for that
They don't scare me :DQuote:
Originally Posted by OwlsFan
That better be sarcasm. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Lim till i die
This is the big move for the EL. If he's as successful in division 1 as Doyle then fee's for EL will increase a lot.
Why does he have to "prove himself" in the Championship.
If Cardiff are prepared to sign a 28-year old from the "part-time league" in Ireland then they clearly do think he's good enough. As I said before as long as the Irish public and media keep on putting down the league here English clubs will keep on paying pitiful transfer fees.
Unfortunately as it is a majority of the general public in this country would choose sitting in a pub watching conference football rather than going to an eL game.
Shelbourne must really be wishing they'd sold him to Djurgarden when they had the chance. I'm sure they didn't even get a third of the price they were offered last time.
Does anyone think he will be successful at Cardiff,i always rated him and he has played some good games in Europe, it will be interesting to see if he starts or not,and will probably make the Ireland squad with the news of doyle's injury
atm clubs are accepting fee's of around €200-300k for the best players in the league. If Byrne scores about 20 goals next season an EL club could easily demand up to €1m for the next player to go and score 20-25 goals in the LOI if he's at a young enough age. It'll basically be showing if you can do it in the EL then you can do it in the Championship, at least. Nobody's going to risk big fee's until more players start to prove themselves. All it takes is Byrne to go and do it imo.Quote:
Originally Posted by JC_GUFC
To be honest I don't think he'll do that well. Although he was the top goalscorer for the last 4 years in the eircom League I still don't think that he's the best striker in the league. As long as he doesn't start taking penalties he may have a chance though! ;)
Cardiff really need a striker, if Chopra gets injured they have problems. Dave Jones on Byrne: "He's scored a lot of goals at the level he's played, can he do it at this level? We'll find out soon."
Kevin Campell has yet to score this season, they have a few young strikers but none has really made an impression. Unless they sign somebody else soon Byrne should get plenty game time to prove himself.
His main problem is that he is quite similar to Steven Thompson.So the choice seems to be between him and Byrne, partnering Chopra.Would having two similar players like Byrne and Thommo up front together work?
I wouldn't say he's similar to Thompson. Maybe in stature but Byrne is a lot more mobile. I think they could work well together.
All the Cardiff fans seem to think they're the same.I didn't see much of Thompson last season, but he was much more mobile this season than he was at Rangers in the games I saw.Still, I think Byrne will play, be it at Chopras or Thompsons expense, because they're both playing brutally at the moment.
interesting that sheffield utd paid £2m for a striker from helsingborg, luton shelton a 20 year old jamaican. this lends credence to the argument of trying to keep players in ireland til an older ageQuote:
Originally Posted by eirebhoy
I don't rate Byrne at all. His scoring record is unbelievable but he misses too many easy oppertunities for me