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The most overrated of your generation?Quote:
Originally Posted by superfrank
Who knows how he'll turn out but I've seen enough of him to think he'll do well, but not necessarily immediately. I think everyone at Sunderland will find it tough next year.
My personal view is that this kid has a natural goalscoring instinct that's quite rare for an Irish player.
dont know how the lad is overated cause he has only just come on the scene and is still third choice striker in kerrs eyes.... quality season at sunderland seen him many a time last season and imo was our best forward .. layed on so many goals for other players as well as those he scored himself.. will find it tough this season but who wont in the sunderland team.. he is at a good club with good people around him and imo already is a better finisher than robbie ...Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
Not sure if I've misunderstood you Zinedine but the "most overrated Irish player on my generation" remark was Superfrank's originally. I was just wondering if he still stood by that remark.
nah was not having a go at you just too lazy to scroll up page for quote so just put in yours ....Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
Damien Duff is NOT a natural goalscorer, it's not his job.Quote:
Originally Posted by eirebhoy
I never said he was. All I'm saying is just because a player can get 10 goals and 10 assists in the premiership doesn't mean he'll get much more in the Championship or vice versa.Quote:
Originally Posted by superfrank
BTW, someone mentioned Elliott setting up goals. The last figure I had was 8 assists which was a couple of months before the end of the season so he probably ended up with about 10.
It's not that he is overrated as much as he might be getting overexposed. Elliot is really all we have as an up-and-coming striker so of course he is going to get a lot of press in Irish circles.
He looks like a good, if somewhat slight, player who might just cut it in the Premiership. Time is on his side though. Please don't confuse excitement at a players potential will overrating said player.
I don't think he is either overrated or overexposed - I think the expectations of him are realistic. The kid is 20 and in his first full season of first teams games he was the top scorer ( or maybe 1 behind Stewart, too lazy to check ) for the team that won the Championship. Not a bad start to a career.
He record at underage for Ireland is excellent, record scorer at U21 level I think?
He will improve, we have so few Irish strikers that really get to become top flight regulars - Stapleton, Quinn and Keane are the only Irish-born strikers in the past 20 years to play top flight regularly...and score.
He won't be an Henry or RVN but can become an alternative in the near term to Robbie and Clinton.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
Don;t get me started... The worst for me was at the Brazil friendly when two D4 heads behind me were 'tawking' about the new young midfielder Grham Kavanagh.... Kavanagh FFS... More grey hair than inpsector Morse and they're calling him new AND young...
"Stick to the sailing & the egg chasing my friends" I was thinking!!!
....played well for once. Unfortunately. I still can't stand him. It was a good goal but I have some problem with him that I can't quite figure out for myself.
Anyway, before I'm berated at how good he is I'll leave you with one fact. He's scored more International goials this season then domestic ones.
Big deal. so had McAteer when he scored against Holland
Well you better get used to it because he is going to be around for a long time to come. If RVN was playing for Sunderland he might be in the same position :DQuote:
Originally Posted by superfrank
I bet he scores for Sunderland before the end of this month. He was played on the right hand side of MF for the first few games. However, he has played up front for the last two games and put in man-of-the-match performances and looked very lively. So far he has been denied due to some good saves and maybe his finishing could be a bit better but I think scoring his first goal of the season will do the world of good for him. It's only a matter of time before he gets his first goal in the Premership. I reckon he'll be an 8 to 10 goal striker for Sunderland this season, with about the same number of assists.
Hopefully he'll score as many between now and the end of the World Cup for Ireland ;) :D
what kind of problems ???? I thought he was a decent player. Not great but not useless either.
Really think after sat nights performance by elliott who apart from given seemed to be the only one who gave a ****e and played for the shirt the lad has to start on wednesday .. He chased everything and created a couple of chances . Might sound bit mad but id drop robbie as he needs a kick up the hole as he is one lazy ******* for ireland these days . If he realises his position is not guaranteed for ireland might bring out the best in him ..
If Kerr did that I'd eat my keyboard!!!!!!
No player is immune from not playing in the starting 11 IMO, not even Zidane but I do think Robbie believes Kerr would never drop him because he is our number 1 striker. If we went on form alone (forgetting reputation and past history) then Robbie would have to get used to the wooden bench (as he knows only too well at Spurs). Clinton and Elliott both track back and chase, sadly Robbie doesn't do that. I think I'd give him the benefit of the doubt because he is a class player on his day.
I would definitely start Elliott and Morrison upfront with Keane coming off the bench, as he does with Spurs. Don't see Kerr doing that though. Might be an opportunity for Keane to play in front of the midfield supporting the front two of Morrison and Elliott, he comes so deep sometimes to get the ball that he never looks like an out and out striker to me anyway. Any thoughts ?
clinton over robbie ? that would be a very brave decision IMO. I can see why but dropping our number one goal scorer would be a big pill to swallow.
I'm not sure how that would work defensively, but I think it would be a very good option if we went one down or with 20 mins to go & looking for a win. Morrison could hold the ball up with robbie & elliot both feeding off it, giving us more possibilities of scoring. All the swiss need is a draw so we have to be very careful of the counter attack, but if we are drawing with 15/20 mins to go this is what I would imagine Kerr will do.Quote:
Originally Posted by mountie
BTW Just heard on 9.00 news Duff is out.
you need to get the problem sorted as the lad is quality .. If robbie keane put half the effort in that elliott does we would have had no problems on sat night ..Quote:
Originally Posted by superfrank
maybe robbie should be dropped. we have connolly and elliott and morrision who are good for a goal.
Superfrank, you really have it in for Elliott don't you? :)
We crossed swords on this issue in a Kevin Doyle thread a few months ago. I've been of the view for a while now that Elliott is the most naturally talented finisher of any young Irish player I've ever seen. I thought his finish on Saturday helps to endorse that view. His all round game is decent & can improve but you can't coach the natural ability to poach goals. It was actually a very difficult situtation & the sheer instinctive nature of the finish was one of only a few faint positives from saturday.
I can't see Kerr dropping Robbie, it would be career suicide. Even if we beat the Swiss, the media would kill him for it.
I think a new formation may well have to be found for Wednesday if the Swiss are going to be very happy with a draw, and we are a little bit short in the midfield.
As for Elliott, he'll be scoring goals for years to come.
Ade
At least the emergence of Elliot will force Robbie Keane to get his act together if nothing else & prove that there is an option on the bench.
if we beat the swiss with keane dropped then i think it will be a massive + by the name of brian kerr and will be a serious reality check for that lazy c*nt keane.Quote:
Originally Posted by Adrianovic
In the games I had seen him in before the Cyprus match, I was very much unimpressed. I still don't like him but I'll acknowledge that he's a good player.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
robbie will never be dropped for our most important game since the dutch qualifer. If Kerr did that the media would write a book about it. robbie to be defintely taken off after 45minutes or 60minutes though. He can do all his flicks and faints in the changing roooms :D
if the rest of the outfield players had have shown the passion and hunger elliott did on sat we would have had no problems ... robbie has got lazier and lazier and needs a good slap to get the lad going again ..
Stephen Elliott is supposed to have scored a cracker of a goal for Sunderland. He's become first choice striker for Sunderland in recent weeks. I've been really impressed with his start to the season and he is one of the few positives for Irish football at the moment.
Good stuff. In the last thread about Elliott, where some guy said he hates him for some reason I said he would score before the end of the month because in the 2 games before, where he was finally played as a striker, he gave motm performances and did everything except score. I know I'm jumping the gun a bit but I reckon Keegan was some tool for letting him go so cheap. I expect him to be around the 10 goal mark by the end of the season, which would be pretty decent for a 20 yr olds first season the EPL. I think he would be a useful player for City. Hopefull he can keep his good form up. I also hope in another few years we will be saying Keegan was a tool to let Paddy Mac go on a free too.
Morrisson, McShane (he looks like a gem), Lee (Surely a better option than the Doc), Macken and Garreth O'Conner (6th goal of the season from midfield, also worth a try at national level, although it was a peno today) all scored in the championship.
Yes..Excellent goal by all accounts left footer into the top corner.He appears to be getting regular football for Sunderland now which will only make him a better player.Great potential without a doubt.
And if Dayrl Murphy also started getting a go at Sunderland who knows we could have two good strickers in the making .........Fair play to Stphan for scoring again.
OK I'm collecting my winnings now :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Irish_Praha
:) Well said girl. Lets look forward, no point in looking backQuote:
Originally Posted by ccfcgirl
I'm not the only one then:)Quote:
Originally Posted by superfrank
Elliott should be an automatic start for Ireland now with Robbie or Clinton making way. Plus Doyle should get some full games up front as well.
For me Elliott should be given a start in all of the Ireland games. He has a fantastic attitude and is a bit of competition for Robbie Keane (who is a disapointment)
What strikes me about Elliott anytime I see him play is that he holds the ball up very well. This is all the more impressive considering his slight build. He has a good first touch and makes good runs. He doesn't hide when the going gets tough. In addition, he appears to be a goal poacher. The Sunderland fans see him as the new Kevin Phillips. His goal last week came with his fifth cap. It is worth noting that Robbie Keane also scored his first goal in his fifth cap (against Malta in October 1998). Considering that Keane had a lot more playing time than Elliott in those five caps, I think its fair to say that Elliott has made an impressive start to international football.
He scored a great goal though. We could do with another left-sided player.
Elliott's wonder goal against Newcastle has catapulted him to No 1 on list of Irish strikers
Tuesday October 25th 2005
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Stephen Elliott, pictured here at an Irish training session earlier this month, has proven that he has an eye for the back of the net. Picture: David Maher (Sportsfile)
THE next manager of Ireland can relax a little as he contemplates the prospect of trying to guide Ireland to the Euro 2008 finals from fourth seeds.
While Robbie Keane's loss of form is a genuine worry, it has been balanced by the emergence of Stephen Elliott as a Premiership quality striker.
Having taken the Championship by storm last season when he scored 15 goals in his debut season at Sunderland, it has taken Elliott a while to adjust to the change of pace in the Premiership.
But since he scored Ireland's winner against Cyprus on October 8 the 21-year-old has produced two goals that will surely be in the running for Match of the Day's Goal of the Month competition.
The first came against Manchester United when he curled a left-footed shot from the edge of the penalty area past Edwin Van Der Sar and then on Sunday he left the Newcastle defence in his wake before thumping a screamer past Shay Given.
Sunderland boss Mick McCarthy, who plucked Elliott from Manchester City reserves in the summer of 2004, reckons Elliott is only getting warmed up.
"Stephen has been fantastic and will only get better and better. His goal for the Republic of Ireland has given him a big lift and he's in the groove."
Elliott's hunger is there for all to see and he was unlucky not to start against Switzerland after a performance against Cyprus where he was just edged for man of the match by Given.
When he came on against the Swiss he immediately made an impression by getting on the ball, turning and running at defenders.
If he keeps this sort of form up, he will be first-choice striker for Ireland when the new manager names his first team sometime next year, possibly at the expense of Robbie Keane.
Robbie has been consigned to the bench for most of this season. His only Premiership start was against Blackburn Rovers and the other time Martin Jol named him in the first 11 was for the shock defeat by Grimsby Town in the Carling Cup.
Keane has come off the bench and scored twice and both goals were worth the admission price as he earned Spurs a point against Aston Villa and a win against Charlton Athletic.
But his failure to regularly get 90 minutes of action at club level has impinged on his international form and he was taken off in the games against Cyprus and Switzerland.
Also, he has only managed one goal in seven internationals this year, the same return as in 2001 when he was dramatically dropped by then-Ireland manager Mick McCarthy for the World Cup qualifier against Estonia.
Keane was believed to be on his way to Everton on the day the transfer window closed but Spurs were unable to sign a replacement so he stayed, but he may have to move in January in order to get 90 minutes of action.
Clinton Morrison took the brave step in August of leaving Birmingham and dropping down a division to get regular first-team football and the gamble looks to be paying off.
The 26-year-old has scored six times in 10 games for Palace and playing regularly has certainly helped his confidence, even though he drew a blank against Switzerland. Kevin Doyle was called into the Irish squad by Brian Kerr for his last two games in charge and although he didn't play his call-up was fully merited after a sensational start to his career at Reading where his valuation went from £85,000 to £1million almost overnight.
David Connolly began the season in sensational style with five goals in four games for Leicester City, including a hat-trick against Stoke City. It earned him a €2m transfer to Premiership new boys Wigan Athletic and he marked his first appearance in the top flight with a goal against West Bromwich Albion.
However, the goals have dried up for Connolly since then and he has now gone five games without scoring, though his early season form was enough to earn him a recall to the international squad.
Ireland's squad for the recent World Cup qualifier against Switzerland featured six strikers as Gary Doherty was once against re-classified from the big centre-half that he really is, but he was unable to save the day when thrown on late in the game.
Doherty is unlikely to be considered as a striker by the new Ireland manager, who is more likely to look at those on the fringes like Sunderland's Daryl Murphy, Cardiff's Alan Lee, Hull City's Ben Burgess and Richie Foran of Motherwell.
But for now, it's Elliott who tops the Irish hot-shots charts.
Gerry McDermott
TOP OF THE HOT SHOTS
1 Stephen Elliott
Goals against Cyprus, Manchester United and Sunday's screamer against Shay Given's Newcastle make him Ireland's new No 1..
Season Stats: Sunderland 11 games 2 goals, Ireland 3 games 1 goal.
2 Clinton Morrison
After dropping down a division to Crystal Palace in the hope of finding regular football has returned to form and scored six times.
Season Stats: Birmingham 1 game, 0 goals; Crystal Palace 10 games 6 goals; Ireland 3 games 0 goals.
3 Kevin Doyle
He was the top scorer in the Eircom League when he joined Reading from Cork City and four goals in 16 games is an excellent return for the Wexford man.
Season Stats: Reading 16 games, 4 goals, Ireland 0 games, 0 goals.
4 David Connolly
Began season in electrifying fashion with four goals for Leicester but goals have dried up since his move to Wigan.
Season Stats: Leicester 5 games 4 goals, Wigan 6 games 1 goal, Ireland 1 game 0 goals.
5 Robbie Keane
Ireland's all-time top hot-shot has only scored once in seven internationals and has spent most of his time warming the Spurs bench - although he has scored twice for them coming on as a late sub.Season Stats: Tottenham 9 games 2 goals,
Ireland 3 games 0 goals.
6 Gary Doherty
It's probably a bit unfair to include the Norwich centre-half among Ireland's hot-shots but he was thrown on to save the day against French and Swiss..
Season Stats: Norwich 13 games
1 goal, Ireland 2 games 0 goals.
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What a sad little country we are. Daryl Murphy plays 5minutes for Sunderland & McDermott thinks he is in the international frame.
:rolleyes: