Ciaran IIQuote:
Originally Posted by weldoninhio
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Ciaran IIQuote:
Originally Posted by weldoninhio
Austrian League is much higher than Eircom league, Sturm Graz in champions league. Trap won the league in Austria but never qualified for the champions league.
K
Just a point on Andy Maradona, who should be an automatic starter for Ireland apparantly:
Sunderland 1-4 Bolton
He started and was subbed after 63 minutes. :cool:
He played as a wide player in a 4-4-2.Quote:
Originally Posted by mypost
If you want to blame the wide players for the concession of 4 goals, you know nothing about football, end of.
Couldn't care less what position he played, it's not the point.
If he's subbed after an hour, in a team that's getting beat 4 by the likes of Bolton at home, he's not currently entitled to a guaranteed start at international level.
Here, here!
Can't see why a successful Italian coaching legend is overlooking a slow, one-footed, unfit,injury prone centre midfielder who rarely plays there at club level and who can't tackle or win a header. Surely they're all the ingredients you'd want in a midfielder??
I'm not advocating for us to make him an automatic starter, but he should definitely be in the squad.
I think I started this whole 'Trapp's achievement in the past being irrelevant' thing before it spiralled out of control, and I'd just like to clear up what I was saying. All I was trying t get across was that come October, if we're 3rd in the Group with Gibson and Whelan having started every qualifier the guns will be out and what he did in the past becomes irrelevant as far as Ireland are concerned. Of course what he has done in the past in completely relevant in relation to him knowing how to handle different situations and having a good idea how to qualify for major tournaments.
Andy Reid was very poor for Sunderland at the wkd and his substitution came as no surprise on the hour. The previous match against West Ham I thought he was their best player and should have played the full 90. It was my first time seeing Carsley this season also and I thought he was very good in a difficult match for Birmingham. In one way he's getting more of a raw deal than AReid as he would fit into the "system" quite easily. He didn't look anything like his 34 years at Wolves anyway and by all accounts seems to be playing to that standard every week.
This sums up my point about him been an enigma. You don't know what player you're going to get from one game to the next. But if he's not up to scratch against the likes of Bolton, then Trappattoni is justified for not picking him.Quote:
Originally Posted by BarelyLegal
ultimately for me, reids problem is that he plays is under a club manager whose tactically nieve at times and this was shown yet again on saturday
whil i fully agree with you mypost, and i dont know your position on the following - this simply begs the question as to what guarantees Kilbane, Whelan and Gibson a start in the national team... such inconsistency in rationale from "The Trap" just beggars belief... :confused::confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by mypost
Quote:
Originally Posted by mypost
In Reid's defence he is at least seeing some first team action, and more than Miller who is in the squad. Whelan and Gibson are not getting any first team football so why is Trapp justified picking them?
He was consistently brilliant for them last season. Saturday was probably his worst performance since he joined but he worked hard and none of the midfielders were any better.Quote:
Originally Posted by mypost
I think it's probably time for Reid's agent to get him a move out of Britain. Not his type of game at all the Bolton one.
Not sure if his drinking and guitar playing would go down well in the continent though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkStu
But who is there to replace them? Apart from carsely none are playing regular. andrews is the only one that comes close and he got a run out.
Clearly Traps not the only one who has an issue with Reid. Keane hardly put up a resounding case for his iunclusion when he was asked, he simply said he was laid down a "challenge" by Trap as Keane had done so at Sunderland for him so clearly Keano isn't too impressed by him lately either.
Garvan, McCann, O'Toole are all playing regularly and well in The Championship as is McPhail. O'Shea gets more game time in midfield for UTD than he does at CB, and Delap has started more Premiership games this season than any other Irish midfielder. Personally I would not even regard Whelan, Gibson, Miller and Andrews as worthy of incusion in the squad never mind the starting 11.Quote:
Originally Posted by DotTV
Thats my point though. We're talking about replacing premiership squad members with championship starters. I'm not saying one is better than the other, just saying there's not much difference between them. garvan and o'toole are unproven at international level so when does he fit them in? O'shea has been playing well for us at CB and we don't have much cover there either. Delap has had his chances.
There really arent that many great options out there
The options aren't great but I think they are no worse than what he has done so far. Gibson was just drafted in for a qualifier so why can't these other guys. Nothing to lose going on Gibsons form so far. Personally I would prefer Championship starters any day of the week other than fellas warming the bench at thier Premier League clubs. I don't mind the likes of O'Shea who plays fairly often for United and is established at international level but Whelan and Gibson get no playing time at all. Whelan doesn't even get used off the bench for Stoke, that's absolutely scandalous bad.Quote:
Originally Posted by DotTV
Personally I'd like to see Carsley playing but otherwise you're replacing one liability with another. We're seriously weak in centre mid.
I'd say if Garvan, Whelan, Gibson, Miller and Andrews were put up for sale tomorrow Garvan would be sold at the highest price to the best team. Probably not really fair though because Garvan has plenty of years ahead of him. But, I feel if all those players were played in the same team it'd be Garvan dictating the play.Quote:
Originally Posted by DotTV
That may be the case. Trap is aware of Garvan, so his chance may come. Looks like a good prospect so far. I think Gibson could be a great player for us....but only in 3 years time or so. he's still developing. he's been out on loan in belgium and he's been a bit unsettled over the last couple of years. One thing's for sure he was seriously rated coming through the youth ranks up north, hence the massive furore when he declared for the side of all things green and good.
The problem is that Garvan is again one of these attacking central players - the kind Trap doesn't really trust.Quote:
Originally Posted by DotTV
In that friendly against Nottingham Forest, Garvan was thrown on as one of the wide attacking players, which doesn't suit him at all...
I think Garvan is going to be a quality player, but I don't think it will be with Ireland while Trap is around.
I do also think Gibson will be a good player. I think he is wise staying around United for a while, ferguson is loyal to those like fletcher and oshea that stick by him and stay with United. IF uniteds cup run continues tonight hopefully he will get some more time.
Great to see ferguson give him 15 minutes against villareal. He obviouslly sees something in the lad.
Would any other country in the world start two centre midfielders in a world cup qualifying game who play in their clubs reserves. What is going on. Surely you wouldnt even have these players in your squad, never find give them a starting eleven spot.
Owen Garven is in brilliant form for Ipswich this year and deserves a chance. At least he plays week in week out in a competitive league. Andy reid is also a must. Most creative and talented player in Ireland and he isnt in the squad anymore.. sort it out Gio
This team will never perform even if Jose Mourinho or Alex Ferguson or whoever else were in charge. Now if we had some sort of Adolf Hitlor you might get something out of them.
Trap was watching our players at two games in England on Saturday. The early ko in the PL, and the late ko in the Championship, so that's that issue cleared up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mypost
Just saw that in another post about Martin Rowlands. But it said Trap watched Ipswich v Norwich on Sunday. That would include
Bruce,
Garvan,
Walters,
Doherty,
Hoolahan
and QPR vs WOLVES That includes:
Delaney,
Mahon,
Rowlands,
Foley,
Ward,
Keogh
That 11 Irish which is not bad.
Anyone know what the premiership game was?
If it was the early Premier game then he sawQuote:
Originally Posted by pateen
Man City: Dunne, Ireland
QPR: Delaney, Rowlands
Wolves: Foley, Ward, Keogh
Norwich: Doherty, Bell, Hoolahan
Ipswich: Bruce, Norris, Garvan, Walters
Foley-Dunne-Bruce-Delaney
------Doherty------Ward
Norris-Ireland-Rowlands-Bell
------Garvan
Hoolahan-----
----------Walters(Keogh)
He watched players in nearly every position(goalkeeper), including Hoolahan playing behind a lone striker, an Andy Reid role if you like.
A few players out of position though, Norris isn't a right winger, Bell is. Walters has played better right wing this season, Keogh has played there too.