Leagues Financial facts & Rumours thread

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Pedantic, I know, as I agree it's looking more likely Drogheda won't be around at all next year, but should that read "apply to all three divisions"? If a club doesn't get a licence, would they end up in the A League rather than the First?

Also, no idea how true this is, but I met one of the schoolboy scouts for UCD at the Kildare game, and he was saying that FAI rules state that once you're relegated, you're relegated, end of story. Upshot of this is that if Drogs go, Harps are still down and Shels would be up. Again, don't know if this is correct, and of course the rules may have been re-written in 2006. It's not something that's ever happened though (a Premier team going bust after the First Division and in a non-new-makey-uppey league season).

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The only time I remember a Premier team going bust was when Dublin City folded midway through a season. No club was automatically relegated at the end of that season - however, the team that finished last (11th) then went into the play-off as the rule was 2nd in the first v 11th in the Premier.

I'm not so sure either that Harps will be awarded a Premier place if Drogheda went bust. I agree, they were relegated on the pitch. However, by the same token, Shels didn't win promotion. Hard to know what the FAI would do in the situation though.

Nothing to do with our league but its happened a couple of times in Scotland where potential promoted teams haven't received their premierdivision license (equivalent) and the botom team have stayed up

Thing is, the Dublin City situation is technically different as there was no promotion or relegation - all 21 teams were ranked, and the top 12 chosen. I know it's nonsense, but that's how the Premier was picked. (Dublin City would have been relegated anyway, I'd say).

Harps should stay up if it comes to it (you could argue Drogheda's overspending cost Harps 9th spot, whereas it's nothing to do with Shels), but I don't know if that's what's going to happen.

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Originally Posted by Dodge

Nothing to do with our league but its happened a couple of times in Scotland where potential promoted teams haven't received their premierdivision license (equivalent) and the botom team have stayed up

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I know in the Welsh league, if the First Division (regional) winner turns down promotion, second place gets offered it. Only if they turn it down do the relegated team stay up. That'd be the equivalent (albeit in a very tenuous and unlinked way) to giving Shels first dibs.

Edit - that said, when Gretna went belly up, I think no-one got relegated.

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Originally Posted by micls

The outstanding money does not have to be paid to players til 31st of January.

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Yeah I asked someone in our club and that's what they said. If you've heard the same thing it must have some truth. They definitely changed the dates recently for the financial section, what exactly that covers I'm not sure.

maybe you have to have the agreement in place by Nov 30th, and to pay them back by Jan 31st at the latest?

If I can throw my 2 cents in here lads. If Drogs go bust it will be bad. Though I would disagree with Harps being the automatically choosen team to take their place. Harps finished 10th but they also had to get their players to take a pay cut. So did cobh (11th) and the only club who obeyed the rules and paid their player 100% and on time, down in the bottom half actually finished bottom. If I was a UCD fan I'd be livid that other clubs who disobeyed the rules off the pitch are getting another crack of the whip ahead of them. If UCD didn't want the place then I'd only offer it then to shels

On that basis, you may as well give us a European spot though.

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Originally Posted by Dodge

maybe you have to have the agreement in place by Nov 30th, and to pay them back by Jan 31st at the latest?

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No. nothing needs to be sorted til January.

If you have an agreement in place by January 31st, e.g. staged payments after that, thats fine too.

Well I hope Im right, otherwise we're screwed....:o

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Originally Posted by jinxy lilywhite

Harps finished 10th but they also had to get their players to take a pay cut.

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Harps players took a wage deferral - not a cut. As far as I know, the players have agreements in place to be paid any outstanding monies. It was more a way to address a cash flow problem on the club's part, than an actual cut.

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Originally Posted by harps1954

Harps players took a wage deferral - not a cut. As far as I know, the players have agreements in place to be paid any outstanding monies. It was more a way to address a cash flow problem on the club's part, than an actual cut.

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I thought there were major contract renegotiations there. Am I wrong?

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Originally Posted by John83

I thought there were major contract renegotiations there. Am I wrong?

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Players will be paid, no problems with licencing.

I didn't question that, but it's not the same thing.

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Originally Posted by Mental Man

If you think thats bad, word is just breaking down on Suir side that WUFC is officially about to go under, there has been a few resignations within the MC and no money is available to pay the players from what they were promised earlier.
Thats the reason why Gareth Cronin left, he heard what was coming down the line, there now is a very strong possibilty there may not be a club around for the start of the 2009 season, its be coming for a while but now it looks as if its finally happened, sad day indeed for LOI football in Waterford :( .

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Meh.

Hear the same rubbish about nine times a year.

Still if it stops you from cheating next season can only be a good thing.

Between Cullen and Delaney I reckon ye will be just fine. :rolleyes:

Drogs, on the otherhand, I'm convinced are screwed.

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Waterford. Where is the support in times like these?

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Waterfords support is woeful.

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Originally Posted by passerrby

the first div where all the clubs have met theres

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Let's not go nuts :eek: :)

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Originally Posted by jinxy lilywhite

If I can throw my 2 cents in here lads. If Drogs go bust it will be bad. Though I would disagree with Harps being the automatically choosen team to take their place. Harps finished 10th but they also had to get their players to take a pay cut. So did cobh (11th) and the only club who obeyed the rules and paid their player 100% and on time, down in the bottom half actually finished bottom. If I was a UCD fan I'd be livid that other clubs who disobeyed the rules off the pitch are getting another crack of the whip ahead of them. If UCD didn't want the place then I'd only offer it then to shels

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I think you`ve some very good points here and your suggestion is perfect to me, but unfortunately things wont work like that in this league

I would hate to see drogs relegated, am/was really looking forward to these games next year, not least the big crowds the fixture attracts.

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Originally Posted by Lim till i die

Meh.



Waterfords support is woeful.

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LMAO,

Coming from a Limerick fan??

FAI rules state that if a team folds or gets demoted then the next highest ranked team will stay in the Premier. Which in this case is Harps.

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Originally Posted by Mental Man

If you think thats bad, word is just breaking down on Suir side that WUFC is officially about to go under, there has been a few resignations within the MC and no money is available to pay the players from what they were promised earlier.
Thats the reason why Gareth Cronin left, he heard what was coming down the line, there now is a very strong possibilty there may not be a club around for the start of the 2009 season, its be coming for a while but now it looks as if its finally happened, sad day indeed for LOI football in Waterford :( .

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You better get Partizan to cancel the DBSC badges so.

Nothing of this on btid ??

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Originally Posted by jinxy lilywhite

the only club who obeyed the rules and paid their player 100% and on time

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Where are you quoting that rule from?

If the pay cut is agreed with the players and contracts re-written then its within the rules surely?

Lads don't think it was mentioned that every team that qualified to Europe actually paid 100% of every players wages on time for the whole year. The only other 2 are Shams and UCD.

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Originally Posted by Inside Man

Lads don't think it was mentioned that every team that qualified to Europe actually paid 100% of every players wages on time for the whole year. The only other 2 are Shams and UCD.

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If you mean the teams that player this year, I think you're forgetting Drogheda.
If you means the teams that qualified this year for next, I think Sligo asked players to take a paycut, so they weren't paid 100%

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Originally Posted by WoodquayBoy

If you mean the teams that player this year, I think you're forgetting Drogheda.
If you means the teams that qualified this year for next, I think Sligo asked players to take a paycut, so they weren't paid 100%

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paul cook complimented the mc last week for never leaving a player one penny short and on time every week this season. playing staff numbers were cutback mid season but no one was left short of money

Five clubs in the Premier paid their players 100%, on time, all the time. Sligo weren't one of them. (So I was told after our last match).

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Five clubs in the Premier paid their players 100%, on time, all the time. Sligo weren't one of them. (So I was told after our last match).

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Is that a rule either in the Licensing or the participation agreement?

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Five clubs in the Premier paid their players 100%, on time, all the time. Sligo weren't one of them. (So I was told after our last match).

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and cook has told a number of people that this is the case so you would want to check your sources stu(or you are saying your friend knows more than paul cook) . this is where these gutter journalists get their info so you should be careful before you post cr*p like this on foot.ie

from sligo weekender


This is especially true when the club’s financial woes are considered – these debts, now almost erased via extensive fund-raising initiatives, still never hindered the weekly payment of players’ wages – and the fact that Cook had to cull his first-team squad due to unforeseen budget constraints.

“All round it would be fair to say that it has been a good year for the players, Gerry [Carr] and myself and the Management Committee. People must realise that the club has done a good job [with finances] in difficult circumstances.” “We’ve had a smashing year – apart from getting knocked out of the FAI Cup – and we have one last hurdle on Friday.

Link below

http://www.sligoweekender.ie/news/story/?trs=mhgbsnaucw

from sligo champion



By Michael Moran

Wednesday October 15 2008

"To get this far in the season unhindered in that regard is a fantastic achievement by all involved and it should be acknowledged," Cook said.

"On my own behalf and on behalf of Gerry Carr (Rovers Assistant Manager) and the players I want to thank the Committee for their work. They have not been an hour late with wages, despite a difficult time lately in terms of finance," he added.

Link below

http://www.sligochampion.ie/sport/so...e-1500914.html

Without being too facetious, a manager's word on financial aspects of a club aren't worth a ****

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Originally Posted by Dodge

Without being too facetious, a manager's word on financial aspects of a club aren't worth a ****

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you obviously have no understanding of pauls cook honesty - no players of sligo was left one penny short on his wages at any time this year and if you cant accept that , prove your sources. this is the sort of made up bu****** this forum can do without.

Relax, I didn't say anything about Sligo's finances but in general, managers will say anything

Did Sligo tear up contracts mid-season to let players go, for example?

You can fail to honour players' contracts in full and yet still not be an hour late with the agreed payment.

Wish people wouldn't get so hysterically uppy whenever somebody hints that maybe their club isn't the best run thing since sliced bread.

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Did Sligo tear up contracts mid-season to let players go, for example?

You can fail to honour players' contracts in full and yet still not be an hour late with the agreed payment.

Wish people wouldn't get so hysterically uppy whenever somebody hints that maybe their club isn't the best run thing since sliced bread.

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They didnt tear up any cotracts but it was of benefit that players left.
Anto Murphy wanted back to Dublin and was let go.
Faz sold to Drogheda.
Moore was on a pay as you play contract.
Foy was under contract but there was a claus in it that he could be let go in the July window.

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Did Sligo tear up contracts mid-season to let players go, for example?

You can fail to honour players' contracts in full and yet still not be an hour late with the agreed payment.

Wish people wouldn't get so hysterically uppy whenever somebody hints that maybe their club isn't the best run thing since sliced bread.

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Stop digging stu- we agreed termination package of foys and moores contracts which is the clubs right as they were on pay per play contracts . that is any clubs right.

You have no right to say that sligo rovers did not play all their players all their wages on time.

what i hate is people who wont admit that they are wrong and withdraw the comment and then accuse people who are telling the truth about being hysterically uppy. Our club is on a solid financial footing and i wont accept people like you belittling the work of the people and mc of sligo rovers after all the hard work

Fair enough. We'll have to agree to disagree so.

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Did Sligo tear up contracts mid-season to let players go, for example?

You can fail to honour players' contracts in full and yet still not be an hour late with the agreed payment.

Wish people wouldn't get so hysterically uppy whenever somebody hints that maybe their club isn't the best run thing since sliced bread.

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Since when did operating within the T&Cs of an employment contract equate to not being well run?

I'd argue the opposite. Thats why you have T&Cs in a contract after all.

Do you know if there were T&Cs? Or were players just gotten rid of? (I don't, incidentally).

I'd say having to let people go because you ran into serious budgetary difficulties after forgetting you'd have to pay some back tax isn't something the best run companies do, to be honest.

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Do you know if there were T&Cs? Or were players just gotten rid of? (I don't, incidentally).

I'd say having to let people go because you ran into serious budgetary difficulties after forgetting you'd have to pay some back tax isn't something the best run companies do, to be honest.

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Well if it was contrary to T&C's then I'd imagine the players in question would be straight to their solicitors and would have gotten a large settlement or would still be at the clubs?

I think we all know most football clubs are unlikely to be given an award for financial probity, but given businesses all over the country are making people redundant and are amending existing employees contracts, I think we're in danger of applying a higher standard.

Wasn't trying to single Sligo out for this (and absolutely agree they shouldn't). But don't think they should get undeserved pats on the back either. I'm cynical like that. :)

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Wasn't trying to single Sligo out for this (and absolutely agree they shouldn't). But don't think they should get undeserved pats on the back either. I'm cynical like that. :)

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I think they saw the problems coming and nipped them in the bud. They'll see the benefit of that next season.

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Wasn't trying to single Sligo out for this (and absolutely agree they shouldn't). But don't think they should get undeserved pats on the back either. I'm cynical like that. :)

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You were very critical of there supporters this season while they were raising money for their own club.
The Sligo Rovers fans are correct they they accuse you of not being able to admit when you are wrong.

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Originally Posted by HarpoJoyce

You were very critical of there supporters this season while they were raising money for their own club.

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I don't think that's true. He was very critical of the attitude that since they'd raised some money, everything was going to be absolutely fine from now on. As it turned out, he was probably overestimating Sligo's troubles, but the attitude was valid if adversarial.

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The Sligo Rovers fans are correct they they accuse you of not being able to admit when you are wrong.

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He's slow to do it, yes. Most of us are. Mainly though, he's very slow to take the word of some fans or a manager or chairman that everything was hunky dory when he's heard otherwise, which, while it's a clear bias, is an understandable one born of miserable experience that the bad news tends to be true in this league.

That said, in this instance, there doesn't appear to be any good evidence that Sligo reneged on contracts or deferred wages, so he'd probably be best keeping that opinion to himself.