feelings regarding roy keane

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Originally posted by carnstein
This is the same Roy Keane who needs an pain-killing injection before every game and does not train for 2 days after a game. His body is in ****, Shearer retired from international football for the same reason and it IS a valid reason.

Roy Keane battered his body for years in the futile persuit of success for no-hopers and when we were on the verge of that success it was taken away from him. Its *******s like you who forget what he did for Ireland, more than any other footballer in the history of our nation.

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Ok. Intriguing post. Not going to comment on it in any great length, just two words.

PAUL MCGRATH.

And anyway, as everyone knows, Terry Phelan is Ireland's ever player.:D :D

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Originally posted by Conor74
Spot on. This whole site, like most sites, is comprised of opinions and conjecture. We share opinions on games, refs, clubs, fans, politics, music, whatever, and one cannot rule out an opinion on Keane because we haven't played beside him.

For what it's worth I thought Keane was a very good midfielder, for a player with limited talent. Could be inspirational, though as Man U's victory without him in the CL showed he was not indispensible. Had none of the technical ability of those around him at Man U, but perhaps had a desire to win that outstripped many others.

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Okay if that’s the case he's a good footballer better then the petty people putting him down for looking after his best interests his family and his job.




Nonsense.
What's the point in having a website like Foot.ie if we're not going to make judgements and air our opinions?

Whats the point in airing an opinion if its one-sided. look at what was written by everyone including Roy Keane and McM and tell me that he did wrong.

On this board there is no problem listing how he turned on Ireland etc but the fact is and it is a fact.... he got fired.

Another fact is he brought Ireland through so many games.

Basically I am saying unless people are willing to look at the truth how can they give an opinion that is fair true and one that reflects one beliefs and not just shouting because we feel bitter that the best player we had decided to call it a day.

Therefore unless the facts are taken into account (and these ARE fact everyone agrees with) then he will never get a fair trial.

If people are so twisted with hate for Keane because he walked away from Ireland have they blinkers and will not admit that there is a possibility that this was not his doing.

If it had been Gary Breen had caused the fuss would he have been treated any better.
'judgements and air our opinions' now just to my final point how many people would judge someone without taking the facts and not the hear say.

If you still think that Keane was wrong to put his family and his job first and say goodbye to international football well then that is your choice.

Do you feel the same about Staunton, he retired and is still going.

Can you say if you were set up by your boss that you could sit and take it?

No people look at this either through rose tinted glasses or with daggers in their eye. If the opinion was one that was balanced I'd say well and good but the we hate keane camp have done nothing but look at one side. The 'opinion' is one of misinformation regurgitated as if the person was suffering with verbal diarrhoea. There has been no proof to and claims here.

I'm not telling people to listen to me I'm saying look at the facts form your own opinion, support your opinion with fact but don't regurgitate what others write.

Tell me you wouldn't have quit,if you wouldn't to that I say fair dues I know I for one would put Family first.

If people are not willing to look at the facts and give a balanced view on what happened how can that be considered 'opinions and conjecture.'

The allegations are unfounded yet they are brought up again and again and again, is that an opinion or a mantra? If its an opinion how did you come about this, where is your proof.

If someone can prove the allegations to be true I will listen but the only if its backed up.

The attacks on Roy Keane have been about him in and out of football, therefor he should be jugded in and out of football, otherwise by his peers, tell me you've been objective in your views and how, you never know you may sway me but do it with fact.

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Originally posted by tiktok
{Staunton} says he is {past international football}, it's still only a year since he played very well at the World Cup, he's still playing football at as high a level or higher level than many of the players that are called up. Why not just leave himself available for selection in case of injury crises.

...here we have a premiership keeper (and a very good one) who has abandoned the national side because he's not first choice. Where are all the arguments about being proud to pull on the irish shirt, even if it's as a sub against Kiely.. as opposed to his primary school "it's my ball and i'm going home" sentiments. Now there's a traitor for you....

Shearer is also a good yardstick, he left to prolong his career, and it's worked, he's in better form than for a while (making light of the suggestions that the six games a year would have had no effect), until Rooney england had to persist with Heskey as a replacement. so basically, probably englands best option in his position retired leaving a hole they still haven't properly filled. sounds like an accurate parallel regardless of nationality.

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Superb post. I have had no time for Kiely ever since his retirement. If every player had his attitude, we'd have lost Staunton years ago - which would have left us in a spot of bother in the last World Cup, wouldn't it? Staunton's retirement is regretable, though you can understand him retiring. I'd be surprised if he refused a call-up if we did have an injury crisis, retired or not.

Shearer's retirement is very much comparable to Keane's, the only major differance being Keane's appauling timing and ungraceful exit. Shearer bowed out quietly after Euro 2000.

I hold the actual retirement against neither player (or would, if I cared tuppence for the England team), but the circumstances of Keane's retirement do annoy me.

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Originally posted by carnstein
This is the same Roy Keane who needs an pain-killing injection before every game and does not train for 2 days after a game. His body is in ****, Shearer retired from international football for the same reason and it IS a valid reason.

Roy Keane battered his body for years in the futile persuit of success for no-hopers and when we were on the verge of that success it was taken away from him. Its *******s like you who forget what he did for Ireland, more than any other footballer in the history of our nation.

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:rolleyes: Sure. Guys like McGrath and Giles never cared about the shirt. Sure Brady wasn't fit to lick Keano's boots. :rolleyes:

I don't, and won't forget what Keane did for the NT, but I won't let that get him off the hook for everything he does.

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Originally posted by Dricky

Whats the point in airing an opinion if its one-sided. ......

On this board there is no problem listing how he turned on Ireland etc but the fact is and it is a fact.... he got fired

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OK, first off, all opinion tends to be one sided. You assess the facts and then form an opinion which is that you support one side of the argument or the other. If you don't come out on one side or the other, you pretty much don't have an opinion.

Secondly, I am on Keane's side, but I don't know how you came to the conclusion that he got fired. He had an argument with a very stupid manager, but I can't see how that can be viewed as getting fired. If so, I may as well pack my bags, coz I've been fired dozens of times from my job.

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Originally posted by Dricky
.......The attacks on Roy Keane have been about him in and out of football, therefor he should be jugded in and out of football, otherwise by his peers,

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Why by his peers? Why not us mere mortals? Are we incapable of digesting information and forming an opinion? Granted, there are idiots on foot.ie, but there are also some people that appear to be able to use some form of reason. If yo utruely believe we can't judge players, then why bother with www.foot.ie at all?

One thing kinda confuses me wih the whole thing, and that is this:

Did Keane not say before the WC that he was finished w international football after the World Cup anyway?????????

I dont dislike him for quitting international ball, he did that to prolong his career, nothing else, no matter who is manager. I just think that if he spent more time concentrating on his football, and less making ridiculous statements, he would be an even better footballer?

????????????

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Originally posted by Gary
One thing kinda confuses me wih the whole thing, and that is this:

Did Keane not say before the WC that he was finished w international football after the World Cup anyway?????????

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I think he floated the idea. Don't remember if he announced a firm decision on it prior to Saipan.

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Originally posted by Conor74
Dricky, you must accept that it's a litle disengenuous in a discussion to suggest that the opposiotion are petty or bitter. In fact, if you read back through the thread, the fans of Roy have used pretty colourful language to dismiss those of us who object to his behavious - I believe one defence of Roy was that we were all fit for castration anyway. Is that not a little bitter?

I have no personal axe to grind with Keane, I don't know the man.

But again, it is quite incorrect to suggest that our arguments are based on hearsay while you have a geniune insight into how he treats his family and you alone know what a super nice guy he is. The cynic in me is tempted to ask "which family where", but perhaps neither of us should go there. Anyway, it's a fact that Roy himself raised the issue about his family. It's a fact that he subsequently remembered that his real reasoning was problems with the FAI/Mick. These are conceded on the Tommy Gorman interview. It's a fact that he did not play for this country in the WC. It's a fact that he walked out prior to the WC before crawling back. There the facts. You on the other hand must rely on conjecture, what may or may not have been said by Roy, Mick, his solicitor, Sir Alex, the infamous meeting, the facilities etc. etc. The only thing we know for certain is that he quit...before being thrown out. And noone else did. Maybe they were all out of step with poor Roy...

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Sorry Conor the Fay McM And Keane have said a lot of different things but they have said the same thing on one thing, he went to walk was convinced to stay then got set up and fired. nearly walked doesn't count it's not a fact.

You see Keane said he'd never play again under McM but what if he had played under BK would you view his walk out on the world cup and return under BK as okay????' Would that have been okay`?`???????? because that is what he did before the 'team meeting'. This is where people suffer from double standards.
My view he quit the team he should have been sent home.
The management asked him to stay/he changed his mind.
Did an interview and the castigated by his boss.
He blew the top and got fired.
I've never said Keane didn't deserve to be sent home, I think he did deserve it but he didn't walk he also didn't set himself up.

Your point on injury that it was faked where did you get that from.
that has been one of the sticks you have beaten him with.
The Dog walking
The bad language that Shocked Quinn.
He retired leaving the country up Sh!te creek.

You said the pro Keane posse uses colourful language, so they may doesn't mean I agree with them, but to be fair I'm not supporting them either I am going on what was coming from FAI Genisis report, MCM book and SuperQuinns ramblings interviews and newspaper reports. I am answering posts in response to mine, my information is there for reference. If it were untrue do you not think Keane would of go the same reception as he did over the Alfie thing??(Which I thought was out of order he is a pro not a spoilt child but that was delt with TWICE)

I'm not saying Keane is an angel but judge him on what happened, and then judge the rest under the same criteria.

If you are going to judge him on Football then you must judge him equally on his life outside football because his peers are really the only people who can judge him because they are the people who surround him and know what happened. The seems to be a lot of anti Keane sentiment with no foundation.

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Originally posted by liamon
[B]OK, first off, all opinion tends to be one sided. You assess the facts and then form an opinion, which is that you support one side of the argument or the other. If you don't come out on one side or the other, you pretty much don't have an opinion.

I agree but there have been no facts proven by the anti Keane crowd, did he fake it ??' where’s the proof. Did we not all ready know that winning was the thing that pushed Keane, can you say the same about the FAI and McM


Secondly, I am on Keane's side, but I don't know how you came to the conclusion that he got fired. He had an argument with a very stupid manager, but I can't see how that can be viewed as getting fired. If so, I may as well pack my bags, coz I've been fired dozens of times from my job.

Easy McM sent him home that is fired he may have planned to walk and then changed his mind but he did stay. I never said he didn't deserve to be sent home but he was sent home


Why by his peers? Why not us mere mortals? Are we incapable of digesting information and forming an opinion? Granted, there are idiots on foot.ie, but there are also some people that appear to be able to use some form of reason. If you truly believe we can't judge players, then why bother with www.foot.ie at all?

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I agree but there have been no facts proven by the anti Keane crowd, did he fake it ??' wheres the proof

Why by his peers? because we are not judging him as a mortal, Yes there is an incapability amongst us to form our own opinion, we are a nation that is led not lead. I do believe we can judge the players but there is no way Keane has been judged the same as Staunton, Keily, Quinn, or McM, he held out on a contract for more money, is that what loyalty is? thus my point if your not going to treat him as you would others why should he be judged by you(p)

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Originally posted by Conor74
Ummm, but he himself conceded that he quit the team citing personal reasons (again Tommy O'Gorman's interview). So, is it your contention that not only are we wrong about what happened, but Roy himself was wrong too and you know what happened? It is somehow, in your opinion, notwithstanding Roy's own admission, NOT a fact that he walked out on the team? Or because he couldn't get off the island (because of flights) that his walk out was technically not a walk out? He was captain and he quit the team. Saying it didn't happen is ignoring the facts - not opinions, not hearsay, but facts.



It would not have made everything better, of course. But it would have gone a long way to confirming that his problem was not with playing for Ireland, as his detractors would say, but playing for McCarthy, and would have gone a hell of a long way in restoring his position. It could also have meant that we'd all have had a lot better memories of him than the images from Saipan.



Stop me when I go wrong. But Roy Keane indicated that he would only play one match in the qualifiers. He agreed with McCarthy that it would be the game in Dublin and would be excused from the away fixture. I appreciate that none of us know the ins and outs of back injuries, but it still seems, objectively, remarkable that someone could say they can definitely play next week and they will be too injured to play the week after. Particularly when it is not an injury so significant as to train the day of the away game, and play a Champions League a few days later. I wish I could say to my boss "I will be okay this week, I will definitely be sick on a specified day next week, and I'll be on top form the week after." I think "incredulous" springs to mind. I will not rely on what McCarthy, one of the contributors to the "non-playing pact" said, because I accept that the whole "who said what" does not necessarily amount to much.

The anti-Keane sentiment again is not without foundation. He was our country's captain and he let us down, at the most critical time. He didn't play in the World Cup. You can secondguess why, but he didn't. Again, as I said before, it is his defence that is based on conjecture, what may have happened at the meeting, what may have been said by him or Mick...

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Keane's name was on the final 22 team and he was still in the hotel and with the team, he blew his lid infront of the players and rightly was sent fired as captian of Ireland. This is in Keanes book McM book and the FAI reports. This is the point interview or not Keane was fired.

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Originally posted by Dricky
there is an incapability amongst us to form our own opinion, we are a nation that is led not lead.

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Dodgy ground here. I'm not buying that argumant one bit.

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Originally posted by Dricky
but there is no way Keane has been judged the same as Staunton, Keily, Quinn, or McM,

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Agree with you on that point though. Esp Kylie.
He used Ireland to get a higher profile and then dumped us when it didn't suit him. Public reaction?
None.

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Originally posted by Conor74
No no, Dricky, that is YOUR point, not THE point. For some of us, his walkout is not some irrelevancy but perhaps the most damning aspect of the incident. He was the captain of his country, and he quit. He quit right before the World Cup. Yes, he subsequently went back and there was a meeting where everything blew up, but before that meeting ever took place Roy Keane had let us down. That, and his failure to play in a World Cup qualifier because of a "positive result" (Niall Quinn quoting Keane) in the first leg, was enough quitting for me. I wouldn't damn him for his reaction to the meeting, in my opinion he had stepped way over the mark long before that...

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How can he have let us down, so he said 'I've had enough I'm off' changed his mind, now the only people who would of know this was Keene MCA and the FAI, Keene didn't tell everyone I'm off he told MCA therefore when he changed heart and was asked also by the FAI to stay there would of been no one else would of know if the manager had done his job and not try to bring his captain down,
That is not my opinion that is what has happened as we have been told by 'ALL PARTIES' they do not disagree this happened. Therefore no matter what you say his name was on the squad therefore he was on the team.
You cannot use Conjecture as we have the proof there is no guesswork here. The facts are in Print from all parties that is where the references should be taken. Before the information was put to bed then conjecture could of been used but its time to update the facts.

Nearly never won the race surely you have heard of that Conor. The Facts are there this is not my opinion you are looking to blame Keene no matter what.

Conor you are jumping around point to point on anything you can find Niall Quinn has already been made a laughing stock with his 'I never heard language like that before' Yet you seem to take his word on it, do you really believe him??? This injury and the Iran game. If it was arranged with Mcm and Ferg well my feelings for Mcm sink even lower, to know and agree and then set it up so he can attack him in front of his team. If it wasn't then he may have been injured. but then he has been injured before and played for Ireland, so from the proof that is there I would have to favour Keene as he has played before injured.

Roy Keene hated playing for mca we all know that yet he played up until the point where he blew his lid with mca, he was then in sent home, that is fired all THE SOUND BITES OF INTERVIEWS ETC mca IS letting it be known he sent his captain packing.

You seem to have a standard for Roy keane and a standard for others, as you make him out to be such a let down to our country I again ask has Keene been judged the same as Staunton, Keily, Quinn, Kelly or mca??????


Liamon.
How else did Teflon Bertie get into power
Look at the Barstoolers.
Why are we in the Euro more to it then money.
Maastricht treaty
Nice treaty

Tell me we are not a nation led. (not all of us I agree)

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Originally posted by Dricky
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How else did Teflon Bertie get into power
Look at the Barstoolers.
Why are we in the Euro more to it then money.
Maastricht treaty
Nice treaty

Tell me we are not a nation led. (not all of us I agree)

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OK, I am probably the least patriotic person on the planet. So I don't think we're looking at this through green tinted spectacles.

Teflon Bertie - Teflon Tony, or G. W. Shrub? Same the world over.

I don't get the barstoolers reference. They fell for Sky's slick marketing avalanche. So did Asia and lots of Scandinavian countrys. People can be lead by marketing the world over. So what?

I agree there is more to the Euro than a simple change in the currency of this country, but it does have advantages. Why has most of Europe adopted it? We're not alone.

Masstricht threw lots of cash our way and I voted for it.
Nice was just wrong. A bridge to far. I voted no, so I won't argue that with you. But the rest of Europe also adopted these treaties. Does that mean France & Germany now rule Europe? I don't think so.

Basically., I've spent enough time outside Ireland to know that we're no different to anyone else. We hae the same political weaknesses as everyone else. We're no worse or no better.

Anyway, this is a football site, so I'm not going to discuss this any further, unless we want to take it off topic.

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Originally posted by Conor74
.Problem with Kylie was that more people were interested in the ass than in the ability

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That wasn't a spelling mistake. he's also an annoying beeyatch and one hell of an ass.

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Originally posted by liamon
OK, I am probably the least patriotic person on the planet. So I don't think we're looking at this through green tinted spectacles.

I agree there is more to the Euro than a simple change in the currency of this country, but it does have advantages. Why has most of Europe adopted it? We're not alone.

Masstricht threw lots of cash our way and I voted for it.
Nice was just wrong. A bridge to far. I voted no, so I won't argue that with you. But the rest of Europe also adopted these treaties. Does that mean France & Germany now rule Europe? I don't think so.

Basically., I've spent enough time outside Ireland to know that we're no different to anyone else. We hae the same political weaknesses as everyone else. We're no worse or no better.

Anyway, this is a football site, so I'm not going to discuss this any further, unless we want to take it off topic.

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Well I suppose we are not as bad as the Americans, so I do agree with the basis but your right, football.

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Originally posted by Conor74



Liamon, Drricky, Tiktok surely we all agree on one thing:-
this argument/thread is getting boring.

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[SIZE=4]Never[/SIZE]

Fair enough but judge the others the same way if Keane is such a let down.


The news stories are not Mcm book Keanes book or the Genisis report

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Originally posted by Dricky
[SIZE=4]Never[/SIZE]

Fair enough but judge the others the same way if Keane is such a let down.

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Of course others should be judged the same way. I am almost as disappointed in Kiely and Irwin as I am in Keane. Their timing was however a lot better (hence the "almost"). Staunton is a different matter. Having won 102 caps since 1988, and representing his country in every major tournament we took part in, his international career came to a natural close. Keane only played at the top level once (in 1994), which was probably our worst showing in a tournament finals.

Wasn't it nice to hear Jason McAteer's statement this morning.

Injured again on Saturday he said,

"I'm really missing the Irish scene. I want to get fit and get back into it. I feel I still have something to offer. As long as I think I am needed then I will be keen to play. Playing for Ireland has been the highlight of my career"


Spoken like a true patriot, when he could so easily choose to prolong his injury ridden career by just retiring. Makes you proud to be Irish.

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Originally posted by Greenbod
I am almost as disappointed in Kiely and Irwin as I am in Keane. Their timing was however a lot better (hence the "almost"). Staunton is a different matter. Having won 102 caps since 1988, and representing his country in every major tournament we took part in, his international career came to a natural close.

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I've already stated my feelings about Kiely, but Irwin's position I understand totally. If you were the most decorated Irish player in history, deservedly nicknamed "Mr. Consistancy", and your manager told you to "go out and prove yourself," would you not feel the urge to tell him to **** off? I certainly would.

Irwin retired a bit too early, but by the last World Cup, he was already showing his age in his declining pace and stamina. I don't hold his retiring against him.

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Wasn't it nice to hear Jason McAteer's statement this morning.

...a true patriot, when he could so easily choose to prolong his injury ridden career by just retiring. Makes you proud to be Irish.

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Actually, I hope to never again see McAteer in a green shirt. He faked injury and let down his team, his manager (who trusted him), his country, and his fans. He even admitted to trying to convince Mark Kennedy to do the same before the WC, which would have deprived us of another player. The international team for McAteer is one big holiday. That disgusted me.

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Originally posted by John83
I've already stated my feelings about Kiely, but Irwin's position I understand totally. If you were the most decorated Irish player in history, deservedly nicknamed "Mr. Consistancy", and your manager told you to "go out and prove yourself," would you not feel the urge to tell him to **** off? I certainly would.

Irwin retired a bit too early, but by the last World Cup, he was already showing his age in his declining pace and stamina. I don't hold his retiring against him.





Actually, I hope to never again see McAteer in a green shirt. He faked injury and let down his team, his manager (who trusted him), his country, and his fans. He even admitted to trying to convince Mark Kennedy to do the same before the WC, which would have deprived us of another player. The international team for McAteer is one big holiday. That disgusted me.

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Wrong. He actually faked "non-injury" in his eagerness to represent his country. There is a big difference. He made himself available to play despite being injured. Admirable. It was the manager's job to look and decide whether he was fit enough.

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Originally posted by John83
I've already stated my feelings about Kiely, but Irwin's position I understand totally. If you were the most decorated Irish player in history, deservedly nicknamed "Mr. Consistancy", and your manager told you to "go out and prove yourself," would you not feel the urge to tell him to **** off? I certainly would.

Irwin retired a bit too early, but by the last World Cup, he was already showing his age in his declining pace and stamina. I don't hold his retiring against him.

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John, regarding Irwin, you admit he retired to early. I don't buy that being told by your manager to "go out and prove yourself" is a valid reason to stop playing for your country. Surely EVERY player needs to go out and prove themselves every time. No player should be above this. Personality conflicts with the manager should have no bearing on your desire to play for your country. They weren't playing for McCarthy you know. They were playing for IRELAND!

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Originally posted by John83
I've already stated my feelings about Kiely, but Irwin's position I understand totally..your manager told you to "go out and prove yourself," would you not feel the urge to tell him to **** off? I certainly would.

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Agree totally with that. I would probably have smacked that muppet of a manager if I was Irwin. But he didn't. Played a stormer, won his place and played until he felt he wasn't up to it anymore. Retired from international footie and stepped down a division in the UK, coz he didn't think he could handle top flight football aymore.

Don't see how anyone can criticise him.

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Originally posted by Greenbod
Wasn't it nice to hear Jason McAteer's statement this morning.
Injured again on Saturday he said,
"I'm really missing the Irish scene. I want to get fit and get back into it. I feel I still have something to offer. As long as I think I am needed then I will be keen to play. Playing for Ireland has been the highlight of my career"
Spoken like a true patriot, when he could so easily choose to prolong his injury ridden career by just retiring. Makes you proud to be Irish.

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A footballer wants to get back from injury to playing again and it makes you feel like a :
True Patriot ?
Proud to be Irish?

You've been listening to far too much George W Bullsh*t boy.