Italy

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Originally Posted by back of the net

Skstu - i dont rate ronaldo as a great player - and also i dont rate that czech team as a VERY GOOD czech team - i think they are an average side and if we had a proper manager in place for the euro qulaifiers - then i think it would have been us playing the portugese that night , not the czechs

I think that this tournament has been one of the lowest quality european championships in years

considering the opposition the portugese faced (czech rep) - i would not call his performance a GREAT performance , when the portugese face one of the better european sides (of which the czechs are not ) or when united play a top european side , ronaldo is barely in the game

- so ,mate , equally i could call your opinion "blinkered" , but i wont cos everyone has their own opinion and is entitled to it

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regarding Ronaldo, your point is just not correct. He scored a hatful of goals in the CL and put in some quality performances along the way right up to, and including, the final. He has scored plenty of goals for the portuguese in qualifying and in all major tournaments he has been present for.

The czechs are a very good team. Not a great team. But still very, very good. Tough opponents. For any international team.

I didnt call his performance against the Czechs "great" by the way - you said he was barely in the game. That is just wrong. As the goal AND assists AND a handful of shots on target AND a few mazy runs prove.

How can he be "average" or "limited" by any strech of the imagination? He's quality and he barely has a weakness to his game. He can score inside or outside the box and has scored some cracking headers too.

He is a joy to watch. Players like Ronaldo are the reason i became a footie fan.

that was one of the best saves ever.

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Originally Posted by paul_oshea

that was one of the best saves ever.

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T'was good alright. Awful decision by the ref in the first place, though.

I still maintain that Italy are absoulutely nothing to be afraid of in the qualifiers

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Originally Posted by stojkovic

Just watching the great Luca Toni in action at the moment.

Absolutely shocking, Torres would have had a hat-trick.

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Can anyone who watches more Italian football than me tell me why he's in the squad at all?

Awful game this afternoon, ridiculous dive to try win a penalty, at least two superb opportunities where his gangliness was too much and very little else. Hope he plays come April!

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Can anyone who watches more Italian football than me tell me why he's in the squad at all?

Awful game this afternoon, ridiculous dive to try win a penalty, at least two superb opportunities where his gangliness was too much and very little else. Hope he plays come April!

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Ciaran must be the man to answer that for you since he rates him as one of the 3 best strikers in the world!!

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Originally Posted by Razors left peg

Ciaran must be the man to answer that for you since he rates him as one of the 3 best strikers in the world!!

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:D:D:D

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Originally Posted by Razors left peg

Ciaran must be the man to answer that for you since he rates him as one of the 3 best strikers in the world!!

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Maybe if all the other world's best strikers were killed in some airline disaster or something first.:D

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Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Can anyone who watches more Italian football than me tell me why he's in the squad at all?

Awful game this afternoon, ridiculous dive to try win a penalty, at least two superb opportunities where his gangliness was too much and very little else. Hope he plays come April!

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He plays in Germany, not Italy

Saw that after wiki-ing him alright. Bloody good scoring record too!

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Originally Posted by stojkovic

Just watching the great Luca Toni in action at the moment.

Absolutely shocking, Torres would have had a hat-trick.

Dunphy was wrong. He's not a poor mans Peter Crouch, he's a poor mans Tony Cascarino.

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Yeah, totally agree with you.I hope he is there when we play them because even McShane would do a job on him.

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Originally Posted by Ciaran

Previous to that he won the golden boot with Fiorentina for being the most prolific striker in Europe.

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Would that be the same season that his club were found guilty of match-fixing ?

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The problem I think is that Donadoni isn't using him right

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And he shone in WC06 under Lippi ?

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Don't judge Toni on poor tactics, he's being heavily marked

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Words fail me.

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Originally Posted by stojkovic

Would that be the same season that his club were found guilty of match-fixing ?

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Do you actually think there is a solid connection between that fact and the fact that Toni scored lots of goals?

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Originally Posted by Razors left peg

I still maintain that Italy are absoulutely nothing to be afraid of in the qualifiers

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I dunno Razor. Personally I would rather they do O.K in euro 2008. The way things are now they are at Rock bottom, and are in a position to turn it around before the play us...

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Originally Posted by osarusan

Do you actually think there is a solid connection between that fact and the fact that Toni scored lots of goals?

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The question has to be asked.

They showed against Romania that they do still have quality IMO. They're just fairly poorly managed at the moment. They will still be the team to beat in the qualifiers and unless we massively improve under Trapattoni we'll have little chance of beating them.

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Originally Posted by SkStu

regarding Ronaldo, your point is just not correct. He scored a hatful of goals in the CL and put in some quality performances along the way right up to, and including, the final. He has scored plenty of goals for the portuguese in qualifying and in all major tournaments he has been present for.

The czechs are a very good team. Not a great team. But still very, very good. Tough opponents. For any international team.

I didnt call his performance against the Czechs "great" by the way - you said he was barely in the game. That is just wrong. As the goal AND assists AND a handful of shots on target AND a few mazy runs prove.

How can he be "average" or "limited" by any strech of the imagination? He's quality and he barely has a weakness to his game. He can score inside or outside the box and has scored some cracking headers too.
He is a joy to watch. Players like Ronaldo are the reason i became a footie fan.

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i believe my point is correct - i have seen him enough times to say that he is not a great player - out of his goals in CL - how many were penos and free kicks ? - I BELIEVE , he contirbutes technically very little to uniteds european cause , and they would be well off getting rid of him for the completely overhyped sum ofr money madrid are gonna pay for him

on top of that he is a diver and a whinger and has an extremely lazy element to his game - attributes of great player??? i dont think so

plus hw has only scored 4 goals in 3 tournaments for portugal - the rest of his goals (qualifiers and friendlies) - have come against the likes of - luxembourg, saudi arabia, kazahkstan, aremnia , poland, belgium ,azerbaijan, latvia - WOW world beaters the lot of them


the reason you became a footie fan ????

the czechs are an ordinary side , and so far in this poor quality tournament , they are being shown up for what they are - ORDINARY and when their coach karl bruckner resigns at teh end of euro 08 - he will be leaving a team in rapid decline and is getting out at the right time

but like i said everyone to their own opinion

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Originally Posted by dr_peepee

I dunno Razor. Personally I would rather they do O.K in euro 2008. The way things are now they are at Rock bottom, and are in a position to turn it around before the play us...

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they arent a terrible side by any means, I just think that they are ordinary enough.When I say that they are nothing to be afraid of, I mean that if we get ourselves properly organised, get a belief in the squad and of course have a bit of luck with injuries I believe we can beat them.Dont forget that a very average Scotland team ran them very close just because the Scots were well organised under a good manager.This is an Italian team that is past its best and I dont go along with the view that some people on here have that there are some outstanding young players coming through for them.They might have a couple of good players to come into the squad but they are far from a golden generation. If these young players are top quality many would be in this squad now forcing out some of the players that are past their best.I have no doubt that in a few years time Italy will become a top team again but these things sometimes go in cycles and I believe that we are getting them at a time when they are weaker than usual

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Originally Posted by Ciaran

Italy beat Scotland home and away, how exactly is that Scotland running them "close"?

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Look at how the group worked out, Scotland were very close until the last couple of games.And if you watched the game in Scotland you would have seen it was a very tight game that Scotland could easily have won on another day

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Originally Posted by back of the net

i out of his goals in CL - how many were penos and free kicks?

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Why is a free kick goal worth less? :confused:

I'm fed up of reading people saying they "don't rate" Ronaldo on this site. Sure he's hyped too much and talked about ad nauseum (i realise the irony here). He also dives and winges like most other premiership players. However, to dismiss someone because you don't like him is really a complete bit of Dunphyesque analysis. He does the business on the pitch and has done consistently the last two seasons in one of the top leagues in Europe. Therefore he has to be considered one of the best players in the world.

As far as Italy are concerned im much less worried about them than i was before this tournament and now i genuinely believe that if Trap gets us organised we can at least nick a couple of points off of them. If they don't change their side they have severe limitations as we have seen and if they do change their side then they may not have "gelled" enough to be a top quality side. I still expect them to finish top reasonably comfortably.