Smoke bombs flares etc.

Also I should say those who are prepared to use it should accept all the consequences of their actions. Unfortunately this doesn't happen either. Basically a middle ground needs to be found, and not standing on the pitch with a hundred fire men around you and more sand then the Sahara like Galway did a few years ago

Rovers Ultras pay the cost of the flare fines but I don't know about other clubs. I accept they're dangerous - and a little girl was badly hurt in Tallaght a few years back when some idiot threw his flare into the stand - but they are great for atmosphere if used by people who have an ounce of cop on.

Are we sure Dundalk's 4k in fines is all for flares?

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Originally Posted by Sean South

If you accept the so called positives of the ultras movement then you must accept the rest. You can’t have your cake and eat it. Any way I know must here won’t agree with that…

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The FAI, League and Clubs are happy to use photo's and videos of flares and smoke bombs for adverts and promotions. There should be a way around it. When the likes of the SEI have done it in the past in cooperation with the club, is that enough for the league is a fine still due?

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Originally Posted by Sean South

. When club officials accept it was part of the game, only then will they put real pressure on the authorities to stop fines.

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Your post is so far removed from reality it does not even qualify as a decent wind-up.

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Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin

Rovers Ultras pay the cost of the flare fines but I don't know about other clubs.

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I think that's a fair approach. I think they contribute greatly to atmosphere, but if someone/a group wants to use them, they should accept full responsibility for their actions.

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a little girl was badly hurt in Tallaght a few years back when some idiot threw his flare into the stand

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Was there legal action taken or anything? Who'd be liable for the injuries sustained? The idiot, Rovers and/or the League? I'm not sure on the law relating to their use specifically, but is it potential liability for injury that motivates the League to oppose their use so strongly? Of course, the use of pyrotechnics isn't legal in Ireland, which is, no doubt, another significant motivation. If they're simply being used on one's property, I assume the proprietor can be held liable. What about the League though?

Back in the day I'd have been involved in getting flares to games, although once there was the prospect of fines for the club we knocked it on the head.

I don't think they add that much though. To me atmosphere is mostly generated by noise- chanting and singing is the core of it. Some of the other stuff strikes me as gimmicky one-upmanship that frankly comes off as a bit childish.

And if you're costing your club serious fines you deserve whatever you get. People have to work very hard to bring money in to clubs, to waste it for your own vanity is just pathetic.

No problem with flares etc, big here on the continent. Just the usual Irish attitude of doing what your told and treating people like children

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Originally Posted by Sean South

But clubs need to accept that pyro is part of the fan scene here now and it won’t go away even if it was a criminal offence lads will still take the risk. It’s not only seen by lads who use it as way to get the place “going” or to inspire your team,it’s now a form of one upmanship. People here looking for other fans to complain or point out lads will only get you so far but it won’t stop it. It can’t be stopped. When club officials accept it was part of the game, only then will they put real pressure on the authorities to stop fines. Yes I know it can’t be going off in every part of the ground but a balance needs to be found. If you accept the so called positives of the ultras movement then you must accept the rest.

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Flares were more common at league matches 10-15 years ago than they are now. It's got nothing to do with the ultras movement.

4K is a lot of money to waste even for the big spenders. The powers that be in Dundalk are probably doing all they can to stop idiots from burning the club's money. Our own past experiences have shown that it generally comes down to others on the terrace putting their foot down and stamping out this behaviour. On the other hand, if a whole group of supporters want to let off flares, they should at least pay the fine themselves.

In slightly related news, a group of Dundalk fans broke into United Park last night and graffitied the place. With increased crowds come increased idiots.

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Originally Posted by Acer

In slightly related news, a group of Dundalk fans broke into United Park last night and graffitied the place. With increased crowds come increased idiots.

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Whoever graffitied United Park should be ashamed of themselves. I also have to say that whoever decided to paint Drogheda murals in the away shed was being a little foolish. Some idiot(s) was always going to respond.

Hopefully, the vandalism can be fixed easily and quickly.

Does anybody know how much the fines are for crowd behavior compared to other countries? Flares are a lot more common on the continent, along with a much better organised ultra groups.

There seems to be a lot of hostility towards the whole flares here, with most of it due to the fines occurred (with safety just an excuse for the real reason imho). Its funny, club fans often pride themselves on having the most intimidating atmospheres, including them in highlights reels (MNS season closer an example, plus the gaa ads on rte include a green smoke bomb somewhere) but distance themselves once anything bad comes around.

If you want better match day atmospheres , if you have to accept all the negatives that come with it.

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Originally Posted by Mr A

Back in the day I'd have been involved in getting flares to games, although once there was the prospect of fines for the club we knocked it on the head.

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Standard of flare isn't as good either - none of the pretending to have a boat in marine supply stores for the youth of today, with their cheap and nasty internet imports!

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Originally Posted by White Horse

Whoever graffitied United Park should be ashamed of themselves. I also have to say that whoever decided to paint Drogheda murals in the away shed was being a little foolish. Some idiot(s) was always going to respond.

Hopefully, the vandalism can be fixed easily and quickly.

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Agreed, it was foolish to go to the bother of painting it before the Dundalk game. Unfortunately the idiots destroyed the home terrace too though so what can you do. It's just not good to see and it has added some real nastiness to the atmosphere ahead of the game.

Hopefully everything goes off smoothly though.

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Originally Posted by Acer

...it has added some real nastiness to the atmosphere ahead of the game.

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That is the worry and probably what these idiots are hoping for. Every Dundalk fan I've spoken to is embarrassed by the stupidity of the vandalism.

Hopefully, all will go well tonight and the game will be a good advert for LOI football in Louth.

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Originally Posted by Macy

Standard of flare isn't as good either - none of the pretending to have a boat in marine supply stores for the youth of today, with their cheap and nasty internet imports!

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back my my day, we sometimes used boat flares but tifo flares can come in green colour so both are good. But there is no law in Oregon or Washington against Pyro (at least not yet) MLS doesn't allow flares but smoke is plentiful and flares and smoke bombs are common in the lower leagues which not many care about.

Pretty cool if you ask me
http://youtu.be/4DIp1fWhbSo?list=UUB...KeTatapQuYGqBA

Wouldnt the FAI just love that - all that cash rolling in in fines! Where do they put the respirators?

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Originally Posted by adamd164

Flares were more common at league matches 10-15 years ago than they are now. It's got nothing to do with the ultras movement.

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Well the ultras movement started here 10-15 years ago. It was more common in the early 00's as there was no fines. Now most groups seem to opt for a handful of large scale shows every year instead of random small scale stuff like what Dundalk seem to do. It's been used here since at least the 1980s just not as big of shows as we see now.

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Originally Posted by Acer

Agreed, it was foolish to go to the bother of painting it before the Dundalk game. Unfortunately the idiots destroyed the home terrace too though so what can you do. It's just not good to see and it has added some real nastiness to the atmosphere ahead of the game.

Hopefully everything goes off smoothly though.

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The scenes outside the home entrance, as about 7.30 was a disgrace. A group of about 25/30 from Dundalk and Drogheda (lads and girls) went at it on the middle of the road for a good minute, Gardai eventually separated them. Seen them lift 1 Dundalk fan, pulled him out of the row.

Just as the game kicked off, who walks in the away end, the same fan they had lifted during the fight. if the gardai dont care, what are the clubs to do?

Can't clubs refuse admission themselves without resort to the authorities?