NI boss targets Republic's Gibson

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Originally Posted by RogerMilla

we could have a nightmare scenario when lads from the north would be declared ineligible for us. I hope the Fai and dept. of foreign affairs are on the ball here.

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Surely the nightmare for you would be if lads from the South were suddenly eligible for NI (or some other country)? We'd take Shay Given, who's a "Northerner" as it is...;)

As for the involvement of the Dept. of Foreign Affairs (aside from the irony that you don't mean the Dept. of Irish Affairs!), as I keep saying, FIFA do not deal with Governments, they deal with their own Member Associations on matters such as these.

Still, I know from some of your previous posts that you have absolute confidence in the competence of the FAI when dealing with such matters...:D

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Originally Posted by youngirish

Have a look at this. It's interesting how opinions of his elligibility differ:

http://ourweecountry.ipbhost.com/ind...=15485&st=1155

I was under the assumption if he did play for us against Denmark then he couldn't switch back to NI no matter what's said by EalingGreen on that thread.

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I would be equally shocked if FIFA cleared him to play for the splinter group to the south

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AHAHAHAHA

These fellas crack me up

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Originally Posted by EalingGreen

Surely the nightmare for you would be if lads from the South were suddenly eligible for NI (or some other country)? We'd take Shay Given, who's a "Northerner" as it is...;)

As for the involvement of the Dept. of Foreign Affairs (aside from the irony that you don't mean the Dept. of Irish Affairs!), as I keep saying, FIFA do not deal with Governments, they deal with their own Member Associations on matters such as these.

Still, I know from some of your previous posts that you have absolute confidence in the competence of the FAI when dealing with such matters...:D

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I am happy that any ROI player that wants to play for NI can do so. I'll happily petition FIFA to make it so. I'm fairly confident no-one who is close to our team would jump, especially Given

I see that we are back to normality now.
The point you refuse to accept is that Darron at present is 100% FIFA rubber stamped eligible to play for the Ireland senior team.
My source on this matter is FIFA.

My main interest in this matter is that footballers born in NI who feel so inclined should be able to declare for the Irish team.
I know that this matters deeply to many born in the North and this should be respected as is the nationality issue in the GFA.

Should this situation change with some regulation being introduced tying such kids to the federation they grow up under, their natural civil rights would be trampled upon. I would consider that to be a serious injustice.

If it was a simple matter of poaching youngsters away from the IFA, I have no interest in that.

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Originally Posted by cavan_fan

Ealing, you keep saying FIFA havent decided and there is some major consideration ongoing. But FIFA have said


Is this not a decision? Are you relying on the 'existing situation' line?

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No, that sentence (afaik) is an extract from a letter* which was sent to the FAI in October 1986.

However, when the IFA learned of it, they considered that FIFA were misapplying their own rules to the situation vis-a-vis NI-born players representing the FAI at senior level.

Consequently, they appealed to FIFA at the beginning of the year. FIFA has not yet made a final determination in respect of the IFA's submission; rather they have been engaged in seeking further information from the two Associations, with the FAI apparently yet to reply to FIFA's latest request.


* - I think I'm right in saying that the FAI has never made the full version of the letter public?

Christ that "ourweecountry" website has some SERIOUS sh!te talk on it

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Originally Posted by geysir

I see that we are back to normality now.
The point you refuse to accept is that Darron at present is 100% FIFA rubber stamped eligible to play for the Ireland senior team.
My source on this matter is FIFA.

My main interest in this matter is that footballers born in NI who feel so inclined should be able to declare for the Irish team.
I know that this matters deeply to many born in the North and this should be respected as is the nationality issue in the GFA.

Should this situation change with some regulation being introduced tying such kids to the federation they grow up under, their natural civil rights would be trampled upon. I would consider that to be a serious injustice.

If it was a simple matter of poaching youngsters away from the IFA, I have no interest in that.

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Then you with your (unnamed and attributed) source clearly know more about this than Howard Wells, CEO of the IFA who has been working on this for months and who was of this opinion yesterday:

"Worthington's view is shared by Irish FA Chief Executive Howard Wells who is adamant, under FIFA rules, that the Londonderry lad does not qualify to play for a team currently sitting third in Group D behind Germany and the Czech Republic.

Article 15 of the FIFA Statues states that qualification to play international football depends on one of four criteria being fulfilled:

lThe player was born on the territory of the relevant Association.

lHis biological mother or biological father was born on the territory of the relevant Association.

lHis grandmother or grandfather was born on the territory of the relevant Association.

lHe has lived continuously for at least two years on the territory of the relevant Association.

Gibson ticks all those boxes - for Northern Ireland.

On that basis, Irish FA chiefs and boss Worthington fully expect FIFA to rule that Gibson is ineligible to play for the Republic and are eagerly awaiting the decision"

As for the rest of your post, there are a few youngsters in Belfast, no doubt the sons of good "Britons" like Billy Hutchinson, who walk around in England shirts. As such, they would like to represent England (for some unfathomable reason :eek:) Tough! If they are not eligible under FIFA Regs, they can't.

And the GFA, "civil rights" or "Natural Justice" have sod all to do with eligibility to play international football. To do so, you need to be selected by a National Association, acting in accordance with the Regulations and requirements laid down by FIFA. Any country, government or Association which doesn't like that knows what they may do - set up their own organisation (or join the GAA? ;))

As for your last point about "poaching", that is not the issue (though it may exacerbate the situation, where it appears to have gone on).

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Originally Posted by cavan_fan

I am happy that any ROI player that wants to play for NI can do so. I'll happily petition FIFA to make it so. I'm fairly confident no-one who is close to our team would jump, especially Given

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Actually, although there were quite a few from the Free State who formerly did choose to represent the IFA - see http://nifootball.blogspot.com/2006/...ionalists.html for more details - I wasn't being entirely serious in my post!

Personally, I'm quite happy with the basic premise that if you come from NI you play for NI, and if you come from ROI you play for ROI. Oh that life were so simple...

A already stated FIFA regard NI born as having dual national eligibility, that is the status quo ruling at present. The relevant FIFA rules for dual nationals apply.
When the FIFA committee accepted Darron's declaration for Ireland then that means the declaration is rubberstamped.
That is the source.
Howard Wells is in conflict with that. Until FIFA say otherwise Darron's declaration stays rubberstamped.
Howard Wells interpretation of FIFA regulation is just that, an interpretation which conflicts with FIFA's current ruling.
If Darron is capped on Wed. he is tied.

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Originally Posted by geysir

A already stated FIFA regard NI born as having dual national eligibility, that is the status quo ruling at present. The relevant FIFA rules for dual nationals apply.
When the FIFA committee accepted Darron's declaration for Ireland then that means the declaration is rubberstamped.
That is the source.
Howard Wells is in conflict with that. Until FIFA say otherwise Darron's declaration stays rubberstamped.
Howard Wells interpretation of FIFA regulation is just that, an interpretation which conflicts with FIFA's current ruling.
If Darron is capped on Wed. he is tied.

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Whatever you say, Boss. :confused:

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Originally Posted by EalingGreen

No, that sentence (afaik) is an extract from a letter* which was sent to the FAI in October 1986.

However, when the IFA learned of it, they considered that FIFA were misapplying their own rules to the situation vis-a-vis NI-born players representing the FAI at senior level.

Consequently, they appealed to FIFA at the beginning of the year. FIFA has not yet made a final determination in respect of the IFA's submission; rather they have been engaged in seeking further information from the two Associations, with the FAI apparently yet to reply to FIFA's latest request.


* - I think I'm right in saying that the FAI has never made the full version of the letter public?

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eg

You seem confused.

The letter sent by FIFA clarifying the right of Northern born players to represent Ireland was actually sent to the IFA in October 2006 and the FAI were copied in on the letter. The letter followed a request from the IFA concerning players representing their country at international level. The letter from Heinz Tannler, Director of FIFA's Legal Division, and Corina Luck, Head of their General Legal department stated 'the existing situation in Northern Ireland allows players to choose whether they wish to represent Northern Ireland or the Republic of Ireland'."

So i'm not sure what you mean when you say ' when the IFA learned of it ', as the confirmation letter of October 20th was sent to them.

You would be better asking the IFA for a copy of the letter as it was sent last October.

N.I isn't a country and only exists as a footballing side because it was formed before FIFAs laws on such things. So to try and apply these laws is fair how?

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Originally Posted by EalingGreen

Whatever you say, Boss. :confused:

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Take it up with FIFA, if you have a disrespect for their rulings.

As for Howard Wells, I have serious doubts about the guy's intelligence.
He is basing his whole arguement on this document.
http://access.fifa.com/documents/sta...20901%20EN.pdf
Clearly this document does not relate to footballers born in the North who wish to "avail", for want of a better word, of their civil right for Irish citizenship.
This document refers to a player taking up a new nationality as in Brazilians suddenly deciding they want to be Qatarians.

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Originally Posted by EalingGreen

Actually, although there were quite a few from the Free State who formerly did choose to represent the IFA - see http://nifootball.blogspot.com/2006/...ionalists.html for more details - I wasn't being entirely serious in my post!

Personally, I'm quite happy with the basic premise that if you come from NI you play for NI, and if you come from ROI you play for ROI. Oh that life were so simple...

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Unfortunately life isn't that simple and it would be a disgrace for any Irish citizen through birth to be denied the chance to play for what he perceives to be his national team.

I can't see FIFA wishing to get involved in what they know is a sensitive case as far as nationality goes on this island. I'm pretty sure they'd like to leave it up to the individual to decide where his footballing allegiance lies given the circumstances on the island regarding citizenship.

I think it's very sad that you see posters on OWC labelling Gibson a "sectarian bigot" just because he wants to play for what he sees as his national side. I believe Chris Baird also comes from a nationalist background but opted to play for NI which is fair enough. It's his decision and it should be respected but equally so should Gibson's decision.

Even if FIFA were to rule against Gibson I could not see it standing up under legal challenge should Gibson or other interested parties go down that route.

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Originally Posted by Maroon 7

Unfortunately life isn't that simple and it would be a disgrace for any Irish citizen through birth to be denied the chance to play for what he perceives to be his national team.

I can't see FIFA wishing to get involved in what they know is a sensitive case as far as nationality goes on this island. I'm pretty sure they'd like to leave it up to the individual to decide where his footballing allegiance lies given the circumstances on the island regarding citizenship.

Even if FIFA were to rule against Gibson I could not see it standing up under legal challenge should Gibson or other interested parties go down that route.

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Agree 100%. Its as simple as that.

Ealing Green is talking pure nonsense. As for Howard Wells, I think we've established that he isn't the sharpest knife in the drawer.;)

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Originally Posted by Hibs4Ever

Christ that "ourweecountry" website has some SERIOUS sh!te talk on it

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Never been on it but I've heard that "ourweeminds" would be a more appropriate title for that particular website:)

Here FIFA's legal dept ruled on Samuel ineligibility for T&T
http://www.guardian.co.tt/archives/2...3/sports4.html

The article used for reference is article 15 in the FIFA statutes.
This is the same article that is used to rule on Irish dual nationals.

There is no way that Darron could play for Ireland unless his transfer request has been fully proccessed by FIFA's Players’ Status Committee

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Originally Posted by geysir

Here FIFA's legal dept ruled on Samuel ineligibility for T&T
http://www.guardian.co.tt/archives/2...3/sports4.html

The article used for reference is article 15 in the FIFA statutes.
This is the same article that is used to rule on Irish dual nationals.

There is no way that Darron could play for Ireland unless his transfer request has been fully proccessed by FIFA's Players’ Status Committee

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Strange them that the same Heinz Tannler, director, legal division for FIFA, (mentioned in the above ruling) told the IFA in October last year that 'the existing situation in Northern Ireland allows players to choose whether they wish to represent Northern Ireland or the Republic of Ireland'

If there was any ambiguity surrounding Northern players representing Ireland there would have been some contact surrounding players like Armagh's Henry McStay or Derry's Saul Deeny playing competitively in the u21 Euro championship qualifiers in 2005 & thus being tied to Ireland for the rest of their careers.

I appreciate Ealing Green's comments and his willingness to post on this board. After reading the comments at OWC I wonder how welcoming they are to those of a different persuasion? Based on what I read, not very.

That being said, I think while there is some ambiguity in FIFA's stance it seems, based on the weight of evidence, that we can safely make the following conclusions:

1. A player may switch from one country to another, if eligible, before he turns 21 assuming that he has not played an "A" game for the original country.

2. A scheduled senior international friendly would qualify as such an "A" game. Aiden McGeady is a great example with playing in the Community Tournament London several years ago.

So, Gibson has never played for the North in anything resembling an "A" game. He is, by virture of agreements executed between two countries a full citizen of the Republic of Ireland. He has chosen, pursuant to FIFA's mandate, to represent the Republic of Ireland.

If he is capped on Wednesday all it will do is confirm that he is eligible for the Republic and that he will never play for Northern Ireland at a senior level.

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Originally Posted by co. down green

Strange them that the same Heinz Tannler, director, legal division for FIFA, (mentioned in the above ruling) told the IFA in October last year that 'the existing situation in Northern Ireland allows players to choose whether they wish to represent Northern Ireland or the Republic of Ireland'

If there was any ambiguity surrounding Northern players representing Ireland there would have been some contact surrounding players like Armagh's Henry McStay or Derry's Saul Deeny playing competitively in the u21 Euro championship qualifiers in 2005 & thus being tied to Ireland for the rest of their careers.

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Nothing strange there, except the illusion within the "Wee Minds" that the FAI have within their vaults a secret letter from Heinz Tannler that reveals the hidden agenda of the conspirators who are out to erode the influence of the IFA

They (Henry & Saul) only get tied when they reach 21 or have played at "A" Level for Ireland.
Samuel was tied to England because he was over 21 when he tried to switch to T&T