Maze stadium plan 'will proceed'

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Originally Posted by EalingGreen

Presumably Glentoran will argue that Ervine had served his time for his former crimes and had since unequivocally renounced violence and worked for peace. Further, a minutes silence is hardly the same as a tangible and permanent memorial like a club, cup or stadium name. As such, it may be thought justified to remember someone who, as well as being a democratically elected representative, was also a well-known Glens fan.

By contrast, those "honoured" with permanent memorials by the GAA were actively engaged in a terrorist campaign, often with criminal convictions, at the time of their death. They did not have an electoral mandate, nor can we know whether they would have repented like Ervine did, had they lived.

Having said all that, as a Glens fan myself I personally think the club was wrong to do what it did, at least at so sensitive an occasion as a Cliftonville game. :(

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I don't know that much about Irvine but from what I heard from him after the ceasefire he always sounded articulate, sensible and positive. I wouldn't regard a minutes silence to such a fan as insensitive but in a way its also a tribute to man who seriously shifted and contributed hugely to the peace process.

One hick hurling club is named after Kevin Lynch.
GSpain use to claim that loads of pitches are named after IRA men, well there is one named after an INLA member. Unless maybee we should consider those pitches or clubs named after those nefarious terrorists such as Sarsfield, Fiach O'Byrne etc.
Maybee Kevin Lynch was, as is recorded, an exceptional upstanding skillfull GAA lad with leadership qualities before being sucked into the Diplock Court system age 19. I don't know. I don't see any record of other clubs named after hunger strikers or modern era republicans. Maybee the club members debated the issue thoroughly, considering all the angles. I don't know.


My own GAA club in Ulster (named after a 1916 leader) is too busy building up its facilities and as with other sporting codes activly getting young kids away from destructive social habits, the big issue of the day and the primary motivation with many of the parents involved.
All shades of political, non political are involved activly. The clear uniquivical guideline is that everybodies baggage is left at the door.
I have attended many intercounty games and club games in Ulster. Some of the fiercest rivals in bruising games witnessed by a non segregated and non violent family orientated attendance in full sporting spirit.

BTW anybody can organise a private invitation tournament.

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Originally Posted by co. down green

The families of the young protestant men murdered by the UVF over the last ten years would tend not to share Glentoran's view of Mr Ervine. I am close to one such family and they were distraught when they watched the Irvine tribute on the news.

They saw no repentance from Irvine or the PUP/UVF during their sorrow.

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Other than I feel that Ervine genuinely did come to repent his actions (unlike his erstwhile UVF colleagues), I don't disagree with the tone of what you say. That is why I said the club was wrong to do what it did.

See Edwin Poots is coming under criticism from those from within his own party over his backing of the Maze!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/6269424.stm

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Originally Posted by geysir

One hick hurling club is named after Kevin Lynch.
GSpain use to claim that loads of pitches are named after IRA men, well there is one named after an INLA member. Unless maybee we should consider those pitches or clubs named after those nefarious terrorists such as Sarsfield, Fiach O'Byrne etc.
Maybee Kevin Lynch was, as is recorded, an exceptional upstanding skillfull GAA lad with leadership qualities before being sucked into the Diplock Court system age 19. I don't know. I don't see any record of other clubs named after hunger strikers or modern era republicans. Maybee the club members debated the issue thoroughly, considering all the angles. I don't know.


My own GAA club in Ulster (named after a 1916 leader) is too busy building up its facilities and as with other sporting codes activly getting young kids away from destructive social habits, the big issue of the day and the primary motivation with many of the parents involved.
All shades of political, non political are involved activly. The clear uniquivical guideline is that everybodies baggage is left at the door.
I have attended many intercounty games and club games in Ulster. Some of the fiercest rivals in bruising games witnessed by a non segregated and non violent family orientated attendance in full sporting spirit.

BTW anybody can organise a private invitation tournament.

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Perhaps you will provide the quotes where I made the claims. You continue to ignore the facts I state - truth hurts does it.

It is official GAA policy since 1979 that the organisation "supports the struggle for national liberation". A motion to amend that to the "unarmed struggle" was overwhelmingly defeated in 1980. If you dispute that can you please provide evidence as to where this motion was overturned. Of course it contradicts the official guide claiming to be non sectarian but those engaged in the "struggle for national liberation" always claimed to be non sectarian.

Many GAA clubs continue to use children to glorify sectarian thugs oops of course not - those "who struggled for national liberation" eg

http://www.gaelsport.com/html/club/n...wsID=13938&p=n

as well as those already mentioned. Maybe your club doesn't get involved in such competitions but many others do. these are sanctioned by the GAA as they are held in official GAA grounds involving official GAA clubs.

As you have failed to contradict my claims re Kevin Lynch's GAA prowess - U16 captain v Armagh in Croke Park in some sort of an All Ireland final and a sub on the beaten dungiven team in a senior county final can you maybe point to other clubs and grounds named after them. I mean none of the guys who made the team for that county final have a club or ground named after them do they? Although given the fact that they only scored 3 points in the final means they probably weren't all that good at GAA not to mind the sectarian thug warming the bench.

Furthermore if Kevin Lynchs are just a "hick hurling" club why did GAA president Nicky Brennan take a sunday out in late July last year to do the honours that included a paramilitary style parade? I'm sure Nicky has opened plenty of grounds but I wonder how many are important enough to have their official openings during the height of the All Ireland season. Gerry Adams, Martin McGuinness and the head of the GAA Ulster Council Michael Greenan (famous for other comments) were also present.

As I have written I have said that the official guide is the authority, I haven't got a clue about any motions. No definition of any motion passed can contradict the official guide. If there is any dispute with an interpretation the official guide is the authority. The official guide is crystal clear on where the line is drawn.
In Mayo there was some attempt to make a statement or pass a motion on behalf of imprisioned farmers. That was quite rightly prevented with reference to the GAA constitution.
I never set out to contradict anything with Kevin Lynch so there is no failure involved. As I wrote there are other possibilities, I dont know. Far from the claim you once made that many GAA grounds and clubs are named after terrorists we have only one named after a 19 year old Diplock Court convicted republican.
The exception proves the rule.

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Maybe your club doesn't get involved in such competitions but many others do. these are sanctioned by the GAA as they are held in official GAA grounds involving official GAA clubs.

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Far from the scurillious unsubstantiated claim you once made against the Antrim GAA Board why should any rational person take your magnetiscope obsession with things GAA seriously.
Seems to me that that is a local intrest issue, hardly even GAA county board stuff.
One invitation tournament. Again the exception proves the rule. and even with that one exception the tournament is not being played on GAA grounds again as is right and proper according to the GAA constitution.

Even with that one exception
should Christy Moore and the that toothless guy be regarded as a sectarian bigots for writing songs about the hunger strikers? no I don't think so.

requested quotes to refresh your memory

"Lets just say that many of the top brass in Antrim GAA also struggled for national liberation"

"plus loads of GAA pitches are named after IRA men!!"

re Nicky Brennan, part of his busy schedule is to open clubs, nothing can be read or assumed into that. He opened up my local gaa club revamp that doesnt mean he revealed official GAA sanction on the civil war issue.

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Originally Posted by geysir

As I have written I have said that the official guide is the authority, I haven't got a clue about any motions. No definition of any motion passed can contradict the official guide. If there is any dispute with an interpretation the official guide is the authority. The official guide is crystal clear on where the line is drawn.
In Mayo there was some attempt to make a statement or pass a motion on behalf of imprisioned farmers. That was quite rightly prevented with reference to the GAA constitution.
I never set out to contradict anything with Kevin Lynch so there is no failure involved. As I wrote there are other possibilities, I dont know. Far from the claim you once made that many GAA grounds and clubs are named after terrorists we have only one named after a 19 year old Diplock Court convicted republican.
The exception proves the rule.



Far from the scurillious unsubstantiated claim you once made against the Antrim GAA Board why should any rational person take your magnetiscope obsession with things GAA seriously.
Seems to me that that is a local intrest issue, hardly even GAA county board stuff.
One invitation tournament. Again the exception proves the rule. and even with that one exception the tournament is not being played on GAA grounds again as is right and proper according to the GAA constitution.

Even with that one exception
should Christy Moore and the that toothless guy be regarded as a sectarian bigots for writing songs about the hunger strikers? no I don't think so.

requested quotes to refresh your memory

"Lets just say that many of the top brass in Antrim GAA also struggled for national liberation"

"plus loads of GAA pitches are named after IRA men!!"

re Nicky Brennan, part of his busy schedule is to open clubs, nothing can be read or assumed into that. He opened up my local gaa club revamp that doesnt mean he revealed official GAA sanction on the civil war issue.

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The official guide isn't contradicted by the "support for the struggle for national liberation." It was passed at the 1979 congress proposed by Clare. The official guide says the associaition is non sectarian and the IRA/INLA/UVF/UFF et al also claimed to be non sectarian. there were also motions passed at the time supporting the hunger strikers.

It isn't one torunament - there is the Gerard and Martin Harte memorial cup in Tyrone the rpemier under 12 comeptition in the county. The Volunteer Paddy Kelly cup also in Tyrone. You have Cumann na Fuiseoige in Belfast named after Bobby Sands and taking his lark, bardbed wire and H block on its emblem. do you want the Peter Canavan list??? Francie Brolly, IRA Marches at Casement Park.

Can I quote you from the Republican Sinn Fein Website

http://www.rsf.ie/adress01.htm

"No doubt the next demand is already being formulated e.g. that GAA grounds and clubs are no longer named in honour of Irish patriots. Irish nationality must be fully and entirely repudiated. The association must realise where the road they are asked to travel leads and whether they wish to start out on such a journey. Because in the end they must deny that they are Irish. It is time to realise that and to be fully aware of it."

St Teresa's GAA club hold a tournament in memory of the IRA men who died trying to blow up Loughgall.

Drumshanbo's GAA ground is named after Captain Jim Vaugh of the IRA.

Then we have the hunger striker rallies in Casement Park.

Need I go on....but these are all OK because the official guide says the associaition is non sectarian.

You are a gullible glutton for punishment - ploughing a very lonely furrow into the archives of RSF presidential speeches followed by Slugger O´Tool.

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Drumshanbo's GAA ground is named after Captain Jim Vaugh of the IRA.

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No it is not
Drumshambo's GAA ground is named after Shane McGettigan a county footballer who died young.
It must be 65+ years since Jim Vaugh bit his bullit.

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You have Cumann na Fuiseoige in Belfast named after Bobby Sands

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No, Skylark does not read Bobby Sands.

Still no furthur progress on the "plus loads of GAA pitches are named after IRA men!!"
Open up a thread in off topic or other sports and I'll see if it is worth my while. That's where people take their baggage and open it up.

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Originally Posted by geysir

You are a gullible glutton for punishment - ploughing a very lonely furrow into the archives of RSF presidential speeches followed by Slugger O´Tool.


No it is not
Drumshambo's GAA ground is named after Shane McGettigan a county footballer who died young.
It must be 65+ years since Jim Vaugh bit his bullit.

No, Skylark does not read Bobby Sands.

Still no furthur progress on the "plus loads of GAA pitches are named after IRA men!!"
Open up a thread in off topic or other sports and I'll see if it is worth my while. That's where people take their baggage and open it up.

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I just found out it was renamed in 1999. Good move Drumshanbo. I wish some of the bigots in Northern Ireland would follow suit.

Maybe you can link to the quote anyway where I said loads of grounds.

I have provided loads of examples though where the GAA actively support and promote sectarian terrorists. Now perhaps you'd like to refute these instead of ignoring them.

You still haven't named your club that is only interested in promoting GAA instead of honouring dead terrorists.

So maybe a couple of simple questions now - you claim the GAA does not honour and promote the IRA because the official guide excludes it.

1) Can you please explain where the GAA official guide excludes it from honouring the IRA?

2) Do you see anything wrong with honouring dead IRA men and women (mustn't forget the Mairead Farrell tournament) and in particular do you see anything wrong with using children to do so as many of these involve underage GAA?

GSpain, How much do they pay you for this :)

I am not inclined to follow on to the bait of the more extreme emotional language you are now using.
It is entirely innapropriate in a football forum to descend to this level.
There is little difference in my mind with the prejudices in your posts and the prejudices very apparent in parts of GAA world.

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Originally Posted by geysir

GSpain, How much do they pay you for this :)

I am not inclined to follow on to the bait of the more extreme emotional language you are now using.
It is entirely innapropriate in a football forum to descend to this level.
There is little difference in my mind with the prejudices in your posts and the prejudices very apparent in parts of GAA world.

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Still attacking the person and avoiding the facts.

GSpain

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Still attacking the person

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I made a very clear distinction (which you missed by a country mile) of referring to the prejudiced content of your posts.

You say I'm

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avoiding the facts

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.
you wrote

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Drumshanbo's GAA ground is named after Captain Jim Vaugh of the IRA.

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only to sneer this after I corrected you

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I just found out it was renamed in 1999. Good move Drumshanbo. I wish some of the bigots in Northern Ireland would follow suit.

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Prejudice is taking a negative point of view based on a false assumption.

In the context of the overly political, extreme, overly emotive and sneering language that you use, I have never seen a debate on any thread which can continue at that level.
It is the Irish equivalent of Goodwin's law,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law :)
AFAIC the boundaries of even a semblance of rational debate have gone.

Next week will see the Ulster Final in front of a sell out 36,000. More tickets could be sold, espec. seated. This contest will bring the Ulster championship to it's conclusion.
I seriously doubt that ordinary NI soccer or rugby fans would feel in the least way threatened by the political/cultural impact of sharing a stadium with the GAA. I think it would be great if it could work but if it doesn't work the issues that I have read here from NI Fans are about what is best for the supporters and not the issues people have with the GAA.

So I missed the fact that Drumshanbo GAA club renamed its ground after a former player than an IRA man. I wish a few others would follow suit. you still continue to ignore my other points. Given that you were quick to pounce when I didn't realsie one club had ceased to promote terrorism I trust then the others are still correct.

Two simple questions remain ignore

1) Can you please explain where the GAA official guide excludes it from honouring the IRA?

2) Do you see anything wrong with honouring dead IRA men and women (mustn't forget the Mairead Farrell tournament) and in particular do you see anything wrong with using children to do so as many of these involve underage GAA?


As for the Maze I don't think anybody has an issue sharing the stadium and I repeat for the 3rd time nobody is blaming the GAA for this fiasco. The issue here is that the stadium is in clearly the wrong place. Some people also have issues with the stadium site incorporating a shrine to terrorism including I imagine many GAA members (maybe even yourself :p )

Read in the paper today that a 20,000 seat stadium named after George Best has been proposed for the NI team, it will be built in East Belfast and will also be used as a new ground for Glentoran! That will fairly p**s off Linfield fans if it gets the go ahead!!

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Originally Posted by SolitudeRed

Read in the paper today that a 20,000 seat stadium named after George Best has been proposed for the NI team, it will be built in East Belfast and will also be used as a new ground for Glentoran! That will fairly p**s off Linfield fans if it gets the go ahead!!

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I welcome it.

The requirements for Northern Ireland

20,000 Stadium - Check
In Belfast - Check
Football only - Check


As a Linfield supporter, this is great news for a number of reasons.

1) 80 Years of compensation to be paid to us
2) We would then be able to sell our ground and build a much better 12,000 seater stadium that is better suited for our needs.

Windsor Park and the ground behind it(midgley) is all owned by Linfield. This land is worth 10s of millions(talking to a developer not so long ago, he reckons 40 - 60 millions worth, depends on what kind of planning can be got)

So with compo and the sale of our stadium we would be looking in and around 50+ Million for us to build a 12,000 stadium.

Oh and 1 more reason why it would be good. It means we never have to go to the hole that is The Oval.

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Originally Posted by Steve Bruce

The requirements for Northern Ireland...

Football only - Check

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Would a ground shared with rugby be such a big problem? I understand not wanting to share with GAA due to the pitch size problem.

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Originally Posted by Schumi

Would a ground shared with rugby be such a big problem? I understand not wanting to share with GAA due to the pitch size problem.

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What Rugby would be played on it?

Ulster? If so then that would mean the ground would be cut up to bits as well as having foreign lines on the pitch for when the football is being played.

So really I think a football only ground is the way to go.

I read on the BBC a month or so ago that the IFA and FAI are planning on making a joint bid for the European U21 Championship in 2011. The North will provide 2 venues as part of the bid, one stadium with a 20,000+ seating capacity and another with a 12,000+ seating capacity. It will be increasing to see what venues are put forward as part of the bid.

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Originally Posted by ifk101

I read on the BBC a month or so ago that the IFA and FAI are planning on making a joint bid for the European U21 Championship in 2011. The North will provide 2 venues as part of the bid, one stadium with a 20,000+ seating capacity and another with a 12,000+ seating capacity. It will be increasing to see what venues are put forward as part of the bid.

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Windsor + New stadium.

Linfield wont be moving until we have our compensation and then we have to find a site and purchase it and begin work, before we would ever sell Windsor.

So it will be Windsor and the George Best stadium/The Sands Siro if the Maze gets built.

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Originally Posted by Steve Bruce

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/6766289.stm

Well it looks like they are going forward with this regardless of the feeling from NI supporters.

It's going to cost the tax payer over 100 million, when it could cost far less to bring Windsor up to standard.

The location is rubbish to, no infrusture at all. This all has to be built at the expense of tax payers.

Then there is Poots, who ISN'T serving the people of Northern Ireland, he is serving his constituents and his constituents only. He should never have been in this ministerial position where he has obvious vested interests. But then what do we expect from politicians in Northern Ireland.

Our politicians are good at shouting about the Green/Orange part of politics, but when it comes to actually making decisions, they are about as useful ashtray on a bike.

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why should windsor park be brought up to standard ... can linfield not help on this ... on the green / orange part of politics lets he honest due to location of windsor park how many catholics would actually go to windsor to watch nothern ireland play.... it is still a no go area for a lot of supporters /... moving to a new location make more sense to try and attrach supporters from all religions to matches unfortunaltly the location may not suit everybody :ball:

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Originally Posted by old git

why should windsor park be brought up to standard ... can linfield not help on this ... on the green / orange part of politics lets he honest due to location of windsor park how many catholics would actually go to windsor to watch nothern ireland play.... it is still a no go area for a lot of supporters /... moving to a new location make more sense to try and attrach supporters from all religions to matches unfortunaltly the location may not suit everybody :ball:

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As the BBCs report today says, they had a Commercial contract professional look at the Linfield contract and it states that the IFA have to keep the ground up to their requirements. Not Linfield. So that's why.

Also this Windsor Park not in a good location lets get a few things straight here.

Windsor is situated in the Village area of South Belfast. BUT their is an entrance from the Boucher road right down to the ground. So this makes it safe for every tom dick or harry to come down, no matter what persuasion they are from.

And also for Windsor not being safe for the Green side, why have Cliftonville agreed to use Windsor for Europe? Because it is up to standard and it is safe for their supporters to get in and out of the ground.

Why did ST Marys GAA camogie team use Windsor Parks facilities to train? Because Windsor Park had great facilities and Linfield are kind enough to let them use our facilities at no expense of the camogie club. The Camogie club never had 1 pick of bother from the big bad unionists that live around the ground.

Windsor Park is so unsafe that through-out the troubles Cliftonville had to play their home games against Linfield at Windsor, because Windsor was safe and Solitude wasn't.

Would you like me to give you more examples why what you said was pure tripe?