Tribunal Newsflash - Bertie's money

From Newstalk, sounds like the ridiculous "Building Trust" story is falling apart

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Blair Hughes who was a manager at the Irish Permanent Building Society in Drumcondra, is answering questions at the Mahon Tribunal about the now infamous "B/T" account.

The Tribunal has previously heard that the account was opened by Mr Tim Collins, for renovations and building work to the Saint Luke's Constituency Office.

Mr Hughes told the Tribunal in a statement that he had no reason to believe the account had anything to do with Fianna Fail, the local cumann or that it related to a building trust.

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http://newstalk.ie/newstalk/news/669...-evidence.html

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Originally Posted by monutdfc

I find it really annoying that all the media outlets persist in calling the 30k to Celia Larkin "a loan". By Bertie Ahern's own definition of a loan (from when Lowry was claiming money from Ben Dunne was a loan) it has to be contemporaneously documented with a market interest rate. Not suddenly repaid 10 years later with nominal (deposit) interest when the tribunal starts sniffing.

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I confused as to why more hasn't been made of this.

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Originally Posted by John83

I confused as to why more hasn't been made of this.

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Possibly because just "loaning" money from FF. Since FF-ers not upset I presume this was common practice in the party of blank cheques?

The only defence Ahern has in this whole sorry mess now is to claim the Tribunal should not be investigating him as he deny deny deny not working any more.

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Originally Posted by pete

Possibly because just "loaning" money from FF. Since FF-ers not upset...

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This is what I don't get. Possibly it wasn't even illegal*, and it's not like the money was earmarked for someone's kidney operation, but still, surely this is something to get mad over? Any FF heads care to comment?

*I'm no lawyer, but tax issues are surely floating around here, and surely there are rules governing how FF's money gets moved around by its officers, requiring some accountability to committees and AGMs.

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Originally Posted by John83

*I'm no lawyer, but tax issues are surely floating around here, and surely there are rules governing how FF's money gets moved around by its officers, requiring some accountability to committees and AGMs.

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Accountability? LMAO :eek:

Sure FF went up in recent polls. We get the government we deserve.

Seems it's not just FF politicians that have memory problems, but also FF staff judging by the evidence yesterday. To paraphase: Berties Secretary "I don't know of any such account"; Tribunal Lawyers "Would you agree this is your name and address in your handwriting on these lodgement slips to the said account?"

Also more sterling lodgements showing up, and it seems Permenant TSB keep better records than the big two...

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Originally Posted by pete

Sure FF went up in recent polls. We get the government we deserve.

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Have to agree with that, I mean we let everyone else do a half assed job, from the girl serving us in a restaurant to the board of Iarnroid Eireann, so why not politicians? Well that seems to be the attitude Fianna Fail supporters are taking at this stage anyway

What worries me is that nobody, at all, in FF seems to see anything wrong with whats going on. That not one of them has the decency to question the morals of either the leader or the cabinet is worrying.
In an age/era where it is likely for the govt to need independent backing surely one of the higher non-portfolio td's would have the balls to stand up and say 'right, this isn't for me, I'm out' and run as an independent. I couldn't see their standing falling in the community anyway.
I'm baffled. I really am. I understand that you vote for the person who serves the constituency well, but it got to the stage with me where I wouldn't vote FF in the last election because of Ahern, likewise I wouldn't vote for Labour cause I didn't trust Rabbitte to do a U-turn. So Olwyn Enright got the vote.

Fianna Fail are mé féiners and they don't have the "decency" because they're looking after their own interests, not the interests of the government or their constituents. Of course this applies to all politicians to some degree, but FF have it down to an art form.

They'll start abandoning ship and attaching themselves to a replacement real soon now, mark my words. And Cowen's not going to get the easy ride Gordon Brown got either.

adam

RTE

Bertie Aherns lawyers are now asking the Tribunal for more time to come up with an explanation.

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However a former manager for the building society has said he believes that over £15,500 came from sterling cash conversions.

Colm Ó hOisín SC for the Taoiseach said they had only received documentation recently and their client had been out of the country. He said the Taoiseach will be replying to the tribunal in due course.

Former Irish Permanent manager Blair Hughes said he cannot offer any other explanation for the lodgements. Mr Hughes was shown documentation surrounding the cash lodgements of odd sum amounts at the Drumcondra branch of the Irish Permanent between March and October 1994.

Over £11,500 was lodged to Bertie Ahern's account and more than £2,000 each to the accounts of his daughters Cecelia and Georgina.

Mr Hughes accepted that each lodgement was preceded by a sterling purchase by the branch and he said this facility would only be given to account holders. He could not offer any other explanation for the lodgements, apart from them being being the result of sterling conversions.

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Surely this just means they need more time to spin another yarn as the previous ones did not work? The Irish Permanent (in those days a Building Society) in Drumcondra unlikely to be a hot bed of sterling conversions given only available to account holders? They seem to continue to reject the sterling claims with no plausible explanation yet. Is that the key to unlocking some massive secret?

:confused:

Just in conversation last night a question came up -at what point might Revenue and the CAB become interested in all of this?

According to the rather thrashy if still noble 'Dirty Money' that was aired the other night CAB were shadowing Ray Burke right the way through his testimony at the tribunal and joining the dots from the little clues he was leaving.

I presume they're doing something similar here, waiting in the wings. But who's to know?

As for his secretary, £66 a week, no huge cash lodgements into her account, I wonder why did she "forget" making the lodgements. If it's just down to some kind of misguided loyalty to her former employer then I kind of feel sorry for her.

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Originally Posted by noby

As for his secretary, £66 a week, no huge cash lodgements into her account, I wonder why did she "forget" making the lodgements. If it's just down to some kind of misguided loyalty to her former employer then I kind of feel sorry for her.

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She would need to be careful as I presume she could be prosecuted for perjury?

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Originally Posted by dahamsta

They'll start abandoning ship and attaching themselves to a replacement real soon now, mark my words. And Cowen's not going to get the easy ride Gordon Brown got either.

adam

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Someone suggested to me the other day that FG aren't pushing about Bertie as hard as they might because they're afraid of Cowen. I'm no FF fan, but I suspect that if he can dump Bertie without doing himself any great harm, he'll lead the polls.

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Originally Posted by John83

Someone suggested to me the other day that FG aren't pushing about Bertie as hard as they might because they're afraid of Cowen. I'm no FF fan, but I suspect that if he can dump Bertie without doing himself any great harm, he'll lead the polls.

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If anything is revealed about Ahern, Cowen will suffer as a result of his complete backing of the tea-shop.

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Originally Posted by Kingdom

If anything is revealed about Ahern, Cowen will suffer as a result of his complete backing of the tea-shop.

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That was my thought. And it's too late for him to back down on his support for Bertie now, the damage is done. He's taken a massive risk; a fatal one by the looks of it.

Plus of course if Bertie himself doesn't back down soon, it won't be just the Taoiseach that falls. Not that Bertie'll give a crap, he's the ultimate mé féiner.

adam

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Originally Posted by dahamsta

That was my thought. And it's too late for him to back down on his support for Bertie now, the damage is done. He's taken a massive risk; a fatal one by the looks of it.

Plus of course if Bertie himself doesn't back down soon, it won't be just the Taoiseach that falls. Not that Bertie'll give a crap, he's the ultimate mé féiner.

adam

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Might be no harm for FF, not that I care all the same, but who would be next in line? Dermot Ahern, O'Dea, Harney (if she went back)?

If I was to nominate someone to blow the whistle on any potential scandal though, and while I've no reason whatsoever for saying it, but Dempsey is someone everytime I see him on tv never seems like his heart is in defending Ahern.

Ministers will continue to defend Bertie if they feel he is staying around for a few years. After all he appoints the Ministers & they all the best job they can get. If Ahern announces he is to retire in lets say 6 months you won't see Ministers popping up as enthusiastically as previously to defend him. Pretty much guaranteed any one in the government will use the "could not do anything until the Tribunal finished its work" excuse when this finally ends.

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Originally Posted by Kingdom

If I was to nominate someone to blow the whistle on any potential scandal though, and while I've no reason whatsoever for saying it, but Dempsey is someone everytime I see him on tv never seems like his heart is in defending Ahern.

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I don't know, he's probably been out there more than the rest of the cabinet. Are you sure it's not the fact he can barely string a coherent sentence together anytime he's interviewed? Surely him, Cullen, Hanafin, Roche etc owe their political careers to the Bert, since they're hardly where they are on merit?

I'd like to think that the whole Cabinet (including Gormley & Ryan), and indeed the whole Government are tarnished by this constant backing of Bert and failure to act. However, I have no faith in the electorate in this country to make the connection - afterall, if connections with dodgy FF leaders was a problem Ahern himself would hardly have made it would he?

Cowen is just a loadmouth bully, if FG are scared of him then they've bigger problems. He has no great record to show - did nothing Health, mismanaged the last growls of the Celtic Tiger, and is incapable of managing the result of his inaction now. Actually maybe FF should be worried if he's the great white hope?

I wouldn't be surprised if the skip a generation away from the sleaze to Lenihan. I think he's a spoofer, but he comes across better than most of the cabinet and hasn't been in cabinet long enough to have as poor a record as the rest. FG to then fook it up by going for Hayes in response, with Bruton the best leader they never had. Labour to bottle it and not force a Grand Coalition between the FF and FG. That concludes the 2012 election results :)

Not much left to say on Bertie bar saying that anyone who still defends him is a moron