Keane at it again...

that smells like sweaty b*llocks to me. Yes I agree it would have been better for Mick to sit back and look like a pushoever so hedlose the respect of a 23 man squad, just to accomodate Roy Keane. Nonsense.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by timmy mallet

Keane is not saying that Given isn't committed etc. to playing for Ireland, he was saying that he is committed for his own benefit and that isn't too far from the truth. If you think Given is playing every match wanting to do his best for the country and the fans, you're deluded. He wants it for himself, he even said so - "It's personal pride. I want to make as many caps as I can for myself"

I agree that without Given we would be in massive trouble and that he seems committed, but don't get mad at Keane for talking a truth that you don't want to hear.

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No I'm sorry. You're wrong. That sort of comment makes me really angry. Keane is not always right, just because he opens his mouth. He says one thing one day another the next. That was Saipan in a nutshell. He's a bully and turning on Given is disgraceful. There has never been any question over Givens character before.....ever... Every player plays for personal pride, and then for the fans and country.

Dont try to make it into a big deal in Given's case. There is no way you can justify what Keane said about Given. Last weeks comments maybe...not this weeks...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tricky_colour

"I asked him as captain to address some of the issues that had been raised and asked him to give his opinion. But I cannot, and will not, tolerate the level of abuse that was thrown at me so I have sent him home."

Mick McCarthys words, he won't deny saying them, and I am sure there are plenty of recordings of that statement because I know it word for word and the key phrase is "I (Mick) have sent him (Roy) home."

Futher:
(Mick)
"This decision has been taken because of what was said at that meeting. It was a very public and open show of hostility. I didn't go into the meeting with the intention of this happening."

So I see that as Mick sending Roy home and that is McCarthy's opinion too as far as I can see. If Roy had indeed quit then what would be the point in Mick "sending him home"? Do you think Roy was planning on hanging around in Saipan for a free holiday?

There was no need for McCarthy to call that meeting, the outcome of it was predictable especially when he publicly accused Roy of feigning injury. I would go as far as to say that Mick knew the meeting would result in Roy's departure, so why did he call it? He didn't need too. McCarthy initiated a public slanging match with only one likely outcome.
A lot of effort had been made to convince Roy to stay after he initially decided he had had enough but Mick decided to stir it all up again. Why? What did Mick expect to achieve? There were only two things he could have possible achieved at the meeting - 1. Absolutely nothing. or 2. Roy Keane's departure. As #1 serves no purpose the only other reason for the meeting was #2.
As I see it Mick put his feud with Roy above Irelands World Cup chances, in short Mick felt he was more important than Irelands World Cup chances, in short Mick is a self serving person, a better manager would have let it go for the sake of Ireland, and it's supporters. I don't think Mick could do that because of his own ego. Had I been manager I would have just let it go and told Roy I thought he was a w*nker too after the world cup, although, 'as I said' (I'm David O'Leary :) ) I would not have stirred up the sh*t in the first place. (I am available for the job when Stan gets sacked :D)

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Surely the issue of sending him home or him walking out only became an issue in hindsight. We the fans care about that issue. Maybe at the time both happened though... Is it not possible that Roy stood up and said "You can stick yer world cup etc" and walked out. And then Mick said "I sent him home", so the matter was settled. If Mick said "Roy stormed out and has left", surely he would have been put under pressure to go and call him back, but Mick wasnt going to do that, because Roy had already gone and come back the day before, and it needed resolving quickly. So maybe although it wasnt 100percent true, Mick told the media he sent him home. He had every justification because of the abuse.

So maybe both happened..........

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tricky_colour

"I asked him as captain to address some of the issues that had been raised and asked him to give his opinion. But I cannot, and will not, tolerate the level of abuse that was thrown at me so I have sent him home."

Mick McCarthys words, he won't deny saying them, and I am sure there are plenty of recordings of that statement because I know it word for word and the key phrase is "I (Mick) have sent him (Roy) home."

Futher:
(Mick)
"This decision has been taken because of what was said at that meeting. It was a very public and open show of hostility. I didn't go into the meeting with the intention of this happening."

So I see that as Mick sending Roy home and that is McCarthy's opinion too as far as I can see. If Roy had indeed quit then what would be the point in Mick "sending him home"? Do you think Roy was planning on hanging around in Saipan for a free holiday?

There was no need for McCarthy to call that meeting, the outcome of it was predictable especially when he publicly accused Roy of feigning injury. I would go as far as to say that Mick knew the meeting would result in Roy's departure, so why did he call it? He didn't need too. McCarthy initiated a public slanging match with only one likely outcome.
A lot of effort had been made to convince Roy to stay after he initially decided he had had enough but Mick decided to stir it all up again. Why? What did Mick expect to achieve? There were only two things he could have possible achieved at the meeting - 1. Absolutely nothing. or 2. Roy Keane's departure. As #1 serves no purpose the only other reason for the meeting was #2.
As I see it Mick put his feud with Roy above Irelands World Cup chances, in short Mick felt he was more important than Irelands World Cup chances, in short Mick is a self serving person, a better manager would have let it go for the sake of Ireland, and it's supporters. I don't think Mick could do that because of his own ego. Had I been manager I would have just let it go and told Roy I thought he was a w*nker too after the world cup, although, 'as I said' (I'm David O'Leary :) ) I would not have stirred up the sh*t in the first place. (I am available for the job when Stan gets sacked :D)

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The standard split in opinion here obviously. For teh record I don't think McCarthy should have handled it teh way he did. But Keane was making lufe a misery for everyone there and to quote his current boss off the record 'There was something eating Roy over there and he didn't want to be there. if it wasn't the facilities it would have been something else. He just didn't want to be there'.

After the incident McCarthy chose to state that he had 'sent him home' in order to try and show that he was the man in charge, that's obvious. Most of what's come out since then is pure politics. What's a manager going to do if a player tells him to' stick his World Cup up his ******'? As soon as he said that and walked out of the room in front of the rest of the squad he was on his way home and he knew it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by danonion

that smells like sweaty b*llocks to me. Yes I agree it would have been better for Mick to sit back and look like a pushoever so hedlose the respect of a 23 man squad, just to accomodate Roy Keane. Nonsense.

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Exactly.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tricky_colour

Had I been manager I would have just let it go and told Roy I thought he was a w*nker too after the world cup, although ....... I would not have stirred up the sh*t in the first place. (I am available for the job when Stan gets sacked :D)

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:eek:
well at least we know that as bad and all as stan is that we could be worse off!!!!

please don't apply for any management positions tricky unless the job spec includes having the ability to allow your subordanites to walk all over you.

i feel you are more suited to taking orders than giving them judging by the above comment. have you ever played football at any level? that kind of abuse is unacceptable to any manager of any team at any level from any player - full stop.

yes the manager could have handled the whole situation better (pre-arguement) but for the good of the squad he had to take a stand after the arguement or else keane would have run the show from then on. the team is more important than any one player no matter how good the player is. you can make some allowances along the way but as manager and leader of the team you cannot accept players disrespecting you to the degree keane did.

Are we really having the Saipan debate again? Is there anything new to say?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cavan_fan

Are we really having the Saipan debate again? Is there anything new to say?

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You're right, there's nothing new to say but as long as RK keeps sniping and the media keep publishing it it'll re-surface.

To be honest with his comments over the last week it's the first time I've seen any sort of swing back against him from part of the public in years.

Like him or not we've all agreed with a lot of what he had to say about the FAI but harping on about anti-Cork bias and having a swipe at Given and his 'agenda' just make him look like a fool.

Yawn , 5 years ago called , it wants its news back

:mad: No liam miller in our squad.....
:mad: and shay given turning up for the match....
:mad: and stan getting 6 points........

Roy must be sickened, not that he watched
the game, he was probably out walking trigger,
but he'll be just after reading the back pages
of the sun round now, i hope he chokes on
his egg and soldiers

Yeah the man's an idiot. Always thought so. Great player but as a person a sh*thead.

If Kilbane came out with half the stuff Keane does he'd be crucified and Kilbane is far more commited to the Ireland team than Keane ever was, he's just a crap player.

Keane just gets away with murder because of all the massive p*icks who hang off his every word.

bit extreme there, he talks sense most of the time,,was disgusted about the given comment to be honest...

just a quick conspiracy theory, was Stokes denied a minute's play in both games, and the U-21 game just to get back at Keane?

I am actually stunned by his criticism of Given. He is the most consistent irish players internationally over the past 10 years. It smells of revenge to me alright. He tried to get revenge on Stan first but Staunton didnt rise to it, now he has moved on to someone else.

Why do people keep saying Keane walked out of the World Cup
McCarthy sent him Home. what do people expect him to have done said "no boss I'm staying and you're gonna play me or else." having said that he's a muppett for having ago at Given

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

just a quick conspiracy theory, was Stokes denied a minute's play in both games, and the U-21 game just to get back at Keane?

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We'd hurt Keane more if Stokes came back from international duty exhausted, and needing a minor operation. Unfortunately, that doesn't do us any good, so we'll just have to ignore the mouthy little langer.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by reder

I am actually stunned by his criticism of Given. He is the most consistent irish players internationally over the past 10 years. It smells of revenge to me alright. He tried to get revenge on Stan first but Staunton didnt rise to it, now he has moved on to someone else.

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I thought Given's reply was very good, reminding everyone of Keane's attitude to friendlies and the like.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Block G Raptor

Why do people keep saying Keane walked out of the World Cup

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Because saying that by cursing his boss out of it in a public meeting, Keane instigated a chain of events that made inevitable his sending home is a bit of a mouthful.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by timmy mallet

Keane is not saying that Given isn't committed etc. to playing for Ireland, he was saying that he is committed for his own benefit and that isn't too far from the truth. If you think Given is playing every match wanting to do his best for the country and the fans, you're deluded. He wants it for himself, he even said so - "It's personal pride. I want to make as many caps as I can for myself"

I agree that without Given we would be in massive trouble and that he seems committed, but don't get mad at Keane for talking a truth that you don't want to hear.

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Yes, personal pride that he has represented his country so often. That's what we want from every player and to be criticised for it :rolleyes:

"Mad at Keane for talking the truth": What is his "truth"? That you shouldn't be proud to play for your country at every possible opportunity? Truth!! The old cliche: Roy says it as it is!! From a self confessed "don't do friendlies" sh*t stirrer, it's not truth. It's simply having a pop at former team mates who didn't back him when he turned on his manager McCarthy.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by timmy mallet

Keane is not saying that Given isn't committed etc. to playing for Ireland, he was saying that he is committed for his own benefit and that isn't too far from the truth. If you think Given is playing every match wanting to do his best for the country and the fans, you're deluded. He wants it for himself, he even said so - "It's personal pride. I want to make as many caps as I can for myself"

I agree that without Given we would be in massive trouble and that he seems committed, but don't get mad at Keane for talking a truth that you don't want to hear.

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What ???????? So what !!! If I played for Ireland Id love to have a load of caps but like Given Id play every match if it was my last. The amount of saves hes brought off in games to keep us in it. Roy Keane casts to long of of a shadow over the Irish game and its fans for its own good. Hes gone end of !

keane is really on a media offensive at the moment, or probably more apt, he's a lot more relaxed and cordial as a manager. interview under 'Some say Roy Keane made himself a great player, but was born to manage' headline in the times with tom humphries on saturday, nothing special but still, the man has a certain magnetic aura. the most telling point is probably when he says he can feel it in his bones what the team need on a given day, be it gee them up if too relaxed or be flippant if they're a bit tight (excuse the inadvertent sexual innuendo there)

http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/spo...003566684.html