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loyalty is one way of saying it but in fairness he will never be regarded as a truly great player as he achieved frig all. despite his undoubted ability he never pushed himself outside his comfort zone by moving to a top team. he choose to live the cushy life. it could be classed as loyalty or laziness. i'm going with the latter. that said he was class but unfortunately he never gave himself a chance by staying with southampton for his entire career.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lim till i die
Agree with you there (yes thats right I'm agreeing with a Galway fan!), I'd call Le Tisser one of the most gifted players I've ever seen, and the loyalty he showed to Southampton is very admirable, that said he'll never be remembered as a great player because of it. I've always thought of him as the type of player you'd tell your grandkids about, but they'd look at you blankly when you mention his name.Quote:
Originally Posted by galwayhoop
In the same way as Le Tiss will never be remembered as a great player I've always felt that Roy Keane staying at United that time when his contract expired stopped him being regarded as a worldwide quality player. Had he gone to Italy or Spain and succeeded he would be remembered as one of the best midfield players of the 90s/00s, now I feel he'll be remembered by Irish, United and possibly English fans in the decades to come, but thats abpout it
Why the last ten years? Surely what's happened more recently is a better measure of how good the leagues are now! How many players from the Spanish league were at the most recent European Championships? There were more players from the Premiership than from any other league. If La Liga is better overall please explain that stat to me. That stat which includes players playing in the better Premiership sides as well as players playing in the rest of that division ... what country were the team who knocked out the current holders from?Quote:
Originally Posted by jebus
If you're asking me over the last ten years which European league is strongest I'd say Spain. Over the last three - four years, it's England.
again that may be one side of the coin but another side is that the EPL has players from more countries in it and less from its own country - and it's neighbours ireland, scotland & wales. could this not mean that local (and i use this very very loosly) players are not getting enough of a chance and therefore it is damaging the quality of player from these countries.Quote:
Originally Posted by Emmet
also a high percentage of players from south america play in the spanish and portuguese leagues - these lads cant play in the euro championships you know!
i would guess that there are a higher percentage of spanish players playing in la liga than english players in the premiership.
i am not saying one is better than the other but a high percentage of imports who play for mid table premiership teams and play for second tier european nations are no more than journeymen. albeit cheaper journeymen than those available from british teams.
Fair comment there Galwayhoop - I hadn't thought of that. The reason there are so many South American lads in Spain and Italy though is (I think) because their country's work permit requirements are not anywhere near as strict as in England. It took Liverpool over a year to sign Mark Gonzalez because the British government wouldn't grant him a work permit!
Do you not think that ten years provides a more accurate reflection of the true quality of a league?Quote:
Originally Posted by Emmet
But if you are going by the short term rationale....
...then surely the Spanish league, where the current holders Barcelona come from, should come out on top.Quote:
Originally Posted by Emmet
It's an accurate reflection over the last ten years - yes. Not necessarily now though which is what I thought we were discussing.Quote:
Originally Posted by osarusan
The Spanish League should come out on top because Barcelona are the current holders? Leaving aside the blindingly obvious facts that there is just one Spanish side in this year's CL Quarter Finals compared to three from England and that Barcelona, the current holders, have just been knocked out by an English side - don't you think it's a bit simplistic to argue that the best side in a league determines the quality of that league overall?Quote:
Originally Posted by osarusan
2 things people are arguing. One that the premiership is stronger than the rest. Another is that the players in other European league's are more tactically astute. I agree with both but for international football the latter is more important imo. It means the guys are more intelligient and can settle into the team without having to play 10 games with each other.
Our most intelligient player is Andy Reid which says a lot. Duff and Keane are learning with experience but they wouldn't be the most tactically astute. McShane reads the game very well too. Stokes is incredibly intelligient for his age aswell. Other than that our players are pretty dull. They need a good manager to get the best out of them. I admire Nakamura so much because of his intelligience. He doesn't need to be told what to do. Strachan says even though he can't speak English he picks things up in training quicker than anyone else.
I don't know if you can really do anything about it tbh, you're born intelligient. It's no coincedence though that when you look at England's team they don't have many players that are exceptionally great at reading the game. No matter how much they play together Gerrard and Lampard can't play that "you sit back while I go forward" type system. To Ballack and Frings it comes naturally.
Don't ask me where I'm going with this but I just think the likes of Italy and Spain is full of really intelligient players and don't have to rely on the manager so much. Fabregas is already more tactically astute than most English players and he has spent his career in England so far.
good points eirebhoy.
england's team is much more hustle and bustle with creativity and flair seemingly knocked out of players at a young age. the same can be said of our footballers in the main.
just look at larsson's impact on the premiership recently where everyone praised him. not even for his goal scoring abilities but his movement in general and awareness of things around.
in fairness the new FAI technical development plan has identified our need to coach youngsters in a more european way from the early years. this new style of coaching will greatly enhance players from a movement and tactical perspective from the early years. allowing players to fluctuate between formations, positions and tactical changes much more freely - like our continental cousins and not pidgeon hole them into positioins due to height, speed ...etc
in fairness players from ireland and britain are so regimented to the 4-4-2 system that any change is alien and takes a long time for it to get accross to players as stated earlier.
it's time to move away from the physical orientated nature of the game and begin to undo the lasting damage that the 'put em under pressure' ethos has ingrained into the game here!