Employing black people as toilet tenants is 'demeaning'

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14/12/2006, 9:18 AM
bennocelt

Quote:

Originally Posted by BohsPartisan

Same way as Irish people who fled the country during the famine had the "Option" of returning home. I bet if you had fled Nigeria and the only option was working in a jacks or going home, you'd work in the jacks.

Add to the famine example Irish illegals in the states all through the last century and this and the Irish government campaigning to make them legal. The level of ignorance towards the issues that face immigrants in this country is astounding at times.

yeah correct
actually my cousin is in the USA, at the moment he is an "illegal", but working hard out there
who gives a flying fcuk where they are from or what their status is, its not like irish people arent accepted in every country in the world
14/12/2006, 9:35 AM
Dodge

Wasn't always the case. Used to be very unwelcome in some areas. Bit like Nigerians in Ireland really.
14/12/2006, 10:09 AM
BohsPartisan

No Irish, No Blacks.
14/12/2006, 10:11 AM
bennocelt

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dodge

Wasn't always the case. Used to be very unwelcome in some areas. Bit like Nigerians in Ireland really.

yeah true, but did it make any difference, we still did our own thing and got on with it,and now the irish are everywhere
15/12/2006, 7:39 AM
swain

So Irish people cleaning toilets is cool, black Africans handing out tissue is demeaning? Ok
15/12/2006, 9:27 AM
BohsPartisan

You're missing the point. Possibly deliberatelty. The fact is that the
toilet attendant job is 1. Unneccesary and 2. A race specific employment 3. Paid in Tips.
By the way I've done cleaning jobs and yes it is demeaning. Whats even more demeaning about cleaning jobs is that the majority of cleaners are Women. However at least you get a payslip and your social insurance.
15/12/2006, 12:08 PM
swain

I doubt very much that while doing interviews for bar staff, that management will say "Ok you're white, you can pull pints". "You are black, needless to say you are on toilet duty". It doesn't work like that. As someone already said, it's more often than not the person themselves will ask can they do it with or without payment from the pub and make up the money in tips.
15/12/2006, 1:19 PM
BohsPartisan

Conjecture. Back up your claim that Black people go looking for these jobs.

Its not as if the Pubs hold open interviews and then decide who works behind the bar and who works in the toilet afterwards. You're just obscuring the real points by introducing that ridiculous line of debate.
Lets compare this to Prostitution. You can easilly say that "no-one is forcing prostitutes to be prostitutes". You can say that Prostitutes solicit their services. Yet is prostitution not demeaning to women?
15/12/2006, 1:22 PM
anto1208

Quote:

Originally Posted by BohsPartisan

You're missing the point. Possibly deliberatelty. The fact is that the
toilet attendant job is 1. Unneccesary and 2. A race specific employment 3. Paid in Tips.
By the way I've done cleaning jobs and yes it is demeaning. Whats even more demeaning about cleaning jobs is that the majority of cleaners are Women. However at least you get a payslip and your social insurance.

Whats demeaning about earning an honest living ?
15/12/2006, 1:42 PM
BohsPartisan

Quote:

Originally Posted by anto1208

Whats demeaning about earning an honest living ?

Have you ever worked as a cleaner?
15/12/2006, 6:21 PM
Ringo

while i was in college i work in McDonalds. I cleaned toilets a lot. Its no big deal. No one gave me a tip:( . What about the plumber un-blocking the toilet or the guy in the treatment plant etc?
15/12/2006, 7:38 PM
GavinZac

Quote:

Originally Posted by BohsPartisan

Lets compare this to Prostitution. You can easilly say that "no-one is forcing prostitutes to be prostitutes". You can say that Prostitutes solicit their services. Yet is prostitution not demeaning to women?

see, now you're doing the demeaning by comparing a toilet attendant to a prodtitute.
15/12/2006, 7:54 PM
Sheridan

Quote:

Originally Posted by BohsPartisan

Are they paying rent on the jacks?

I've heard of first time buyers being p1ssed on, but this is ridiculous.
15/12/2006, 10:38 PM
CollegeTillIDie

Ok this toilet attendants thread needs a new angle. In 1988 in The Gare Du Nord, in Paris, I saw my first ever toilet attendant in the Gents. It was a woman! My reaction was to imagine how nuts women would go over here if there were male toilets attendants in their toilet!
16/12/2006, 11:50 AM
pete

Quote:

Originally Posted by CollegeTillIDie

Ok this toilet attendants thread needs a new angle. In 1988 in The Gare Du Nord, in Paris, I saw my first ever toilet attendant in the Gents. It was a woman!!

Those crazy french!

If migrant toilet attendants complained that would be fair enough. Can't take this serious when do gooders thinking they know best when not consuted the people they think they helping.

If you come to Ireland as an illegal migrant & have few if little english then i am sure you not expecting to start at the top of the ladder. People make their own choices.
16/12/2006, 12:26 PM
BohsPartisan

Typical tory refrain. Anyone with a remotely progressive attitude on anything is a "Do Gooder."
Again to go with the prostitute analogy, the job is not just demeaning to the prostitute but to all women.
On a different note the guys who worked for GAMA weren't complaining about their pay and conditions initially because they were afraid. Victims of child abuse often don't complain out of fear. Does this absolve the abuser? I doubt toilet attendants who are asylum seekers thus not supposed to be working are going to start drawing attention to themselves by complaining. This is solveable by allowing asylum seekers to work at normal tax paying jobs.
16/12/2006, 12:31 PM
pete

Quote:

Originally Posted by BohsPartisan

This is solveable by allowing asylum seekers to work at normal tax paying jobs.

Better solution to:
- process asylum cases quicker
- public discussion of economic migrant "green cards".

Vast majority of asylum seekers are economic (although given the expense in getting to Ireland have to wonder how poor they are) & not political. We should decide as a country to remove visa system with economic migrant green cards. However may meet resistance from the left as working class job lost to hard working new comers. e.g. Labours stance on emmigration earlier this year.
17/12/2006, 3:56 PM
BohsPartisan

Labour are not Left.
18/12/2006, 8:45 AM
Macy

Quote:

Originally Posted by pete

However may meet resistance from the left as working class job lost to hard working new comers. e.g. Labours stance on emmigration earlier this year.

That issue was not about immigration, it was about maintaining rates of pay for all workers be they immigrants or Irish. Well done for completely buying the FF spin there pete.
18/12/2006, 10:58 AM
pete

Quote:

Originally Posted by Macy

That issue was not about immigration, it was about maintaining rates of pay for all workers be they immigrants or Irish. Well done for completely buying the FF spin there pete.

Are you sure as seemed like labour was fishing for the 'they took our jobs' vote...

BTW the irish minimum wage is i think 3rd highest in the EU & increasing significantly again soon.

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