Another Scottish born player declares for us

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Originally Posted by Tuff Paddy

I haven't lived in Ireland since I was 17, but I defy anyone to tell me what I am and what I'm not. At the end of the day it's what YOU yourself feel and think that defines you.

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Maybe but you have still lived in Ireland and possibly grew up there so I don't see why you would have a problem with my posts. My original posting before Lopez went off on one referred to people who claim to be Irish because a parent or grandparent is Irish but have never lived in Ireland, don't really understand the culture or history etc. A large number of the Jack Charlton players while I cheered them on while playing for the team I would not consider Irish and neither would many other Irish fans.

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Originally Posted by youngirish

You can think what you want I don't give a fat hairy ball but very few people I know or grew up with would consider you to be Irish if you have not lived in Ireland for a considerable period of your life. Your American, English, Scottish accent or whatever you use won't help either. Unfortunately these are the facts among most of the Irish people I'm familiar with if not the majority on here. If you don't like hearing the truth that's your prob.

The born abroad thing I never mentioned btw so I don't know why that keeps getting thrown in.

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I've just explained the truth. I have an Irish passport. PP has an Irish passport. Other 2G on here have Irish passport. AN IRISH PASSPORT!!! It doesn't say anything different from my dad's. It's not like a British one with British citizen for one group; Overseas subject for another. It is the same as the one you're entitled too. :D :D

I think it's you that has the problem you poor dear. We had a referendum a couple of years ago about removing the automatic right of citizenship from Irish birth. The majority voted to get rid of the connection. That is also the TRUTH. Where were you in campaigning against the change? Not enhancing your identity in the local pub, I hope.

You're entitled to think whatever fairy tales you like, just don't put up p*ss poor arguments about Irish history in Irish schools (total boll*x as it's clear that if you studied it in an Irish school, it confirms my own view that it's hopelessly dire), Irish pubs (great place for gaining identity :rolleyes: ) or speaking the Irish language (when a large number of the 'real' Irish - probably yourself included - can barely string together a sentence), and then forget to mention the most important area of life for a child's identity, identical between most 2G Irish born abroad and people in Ireland: A home with two Irish parents. It just makes you look a total tw*t.

As for what you and your f*ckwit mates, who think being born in stables makes you a horse, believe? I wonder how many of them follow English clubs and read English papers? The majority of Irish people in my own experience accept my identity let alone my citizenship. True there are a fair few muppets, but as I always say that's ignorance down to a lack of decent Irish history in Irish schools which - understandable in a way - ignores the great shame having to force more than half its people to leave for most of the last 150 years.

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Originally Posted by Tuff Paddy

I don't have a problem, it's a debate. I feel we need to acknowledge the vast Irish diaspora and you don't. We disagree. No problem. I'm just not comfortable with the whole 'I'm-more-Irish-than-you-pal' vibe.

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Don't claim to be more Irish than anyone else who is Irish and that as I've stated before can include people that are born abroad but have lived at some stage in Ireland and understand the Irish mentality, culture etc.

To sum this up what annoys me is when I'm abroad (as at present) and in an Irish pub (which in itself is a farce. Pubs in England can claim to be Irish for just serving Guinness for f**k sake so what is an Irish pub?) and I get some drunk with an Ireland jersey on spouting to me in a cockney accent about how bad the British were to us and how the situation up north got to the way it is and how we all still eat just potatoes and live in the fields farming etc. In my experience a large proportion of the Irish dispaora that isn't originally from Ireland (this does not refer to all of them) have no clue what it's like to live in Ireland today. Irish bred (not born) people that I know have an almost unique outlook on life (our humour, family, politics, religious attitudes) that I haven't seen replicated externally in all my travels even amongst the Irish dispaora (look at Irish Americans ffs they have no clue for the most part what modern Irish people/culture is all about, they are still stuck in some romanticised version of f**king 1845).

This is my opinion. I'm sure one day I'll meet a non-Irish born, non-Irish bred person who will be similar to the people I grew up with in North inner city Dublin (kip) but it's yet to happen and it will be a rarity when it does.

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Originally Posted by lopez

As for what you and your f*ckwit mates, who think being born in stables makes you a horse, believe? I wonder how many of them follow English clubs and read English papers? The majority of Irish people in my own experience accept my identity let alone my citizenship. True there are a fair few muppets, but as I always say that's ignorance down to a lack of decent Irish history in Irish schools which - understandable in a way - ignores the great shame having to force more than half its people to leave for most of the last 150 years.

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Why have you this hang up about the English? You are f**king English. If you were really Irish you'd grasp we're over the anti-English thing for the most part. We now look on them as our poorer neighbours who pi*ssed us off in the past but can't hold much of a grudge anymore now their once powerful country is sliding towards the sh*ts.

And I agree our Irish history lessons may have been s**t but we learned them in Ireland in an Irish school. Taught by Irish teachers. So who gives a wa*k?

P.S. Clinton Morrison also has an Irish passport.

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Originally Posted by youngirish

...and I get some drunk with an Ireland jersey on spouting to me in a cockney accent about how bad the British were to us and how the situation up north got to the way it is and how we all still eat just potatoes and live in the fields farming etc...

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One drunk and it's a generalisation. :rolleyes: Suppose I could find an English tourist in Dublin who got the same treatment, but instead of the bit about potatoes and farms in Ireland its pearly suits/cloth caps and warm beer in England.

So are you staying in England? If you have kids don't forget they do a nice line in three lion babygrows. Don't call them Ruari or Saoirse, though. That would really mess them up and they'd hate you for it. :D

lopez, youngirish - you ignored my pm's about swearing and personal abuse so if you want to continue this debate send each other pm's.

http://foot.ie/showthread.php?t=7880