Northern players declaring for the Republic

I deleted my last message.

If everything is as good as previous posts suggest, then this 'problem' between NI and RoI will only be temporary. RoI are slipping down the FIFA rankings while NI are going the other way. Most players would declare for the more successful team I presume, and at the moment there is very little contest.

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Originally Posted by Jamjar

Not for the first time either :D

On a lighter note:
Ian Paisley is in a coma for 10 years, he wakes up with Ian jnr. at his side.
"What's been happening for the last 10 yrs. son"

"Oh Da, it's terrible, there's a united Ireland now, we all have to speak Irish, and most of our church has converted to catholicism"

"That's unbelievable" says the big man.

"But Da, its not all bad news" says Ian jnr.
"Linfield won the cup again".

"Thats great son, what was the score ?"

"2-10 to 5 points " !!

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Deary, deary me - the old ones are the best eh?

Anyway, has "The Big Man":rolleyes: not been in some sort of a coma for over 50 years, never mind 10?

Here's a true story:

In October 2004, Football Association of Ireland CEO Fran Rooney upset many in the North with a joke denigrating the North's soccer team. Prior to the Republic's recent game against the Faroe Islands he told journalists of the boy who, when asked what his father did for a living, replied that he was a stripper in a gay bar. The punch line was that the boy was too embarrassed to say that his father was a member of the Northern Ireland soccer team.


I hope the FAI are reminded of that by Messrs Wells & Boyce when the two Associations meet to iron out the eligibility issues soon.

I wouldnt worry about him too much(Rooney), he left both Baltimore and the FAI under a cloud.I can understand where people have aproblem with this issue.Andy O brien constantly gets mentioned as somebody who chose England as his first country(u21 I think).Incidentally, remember last year the managment of ROIu19 were furious last year when a NOI player commited a brutal tackle on Bohs Mark Keane, smashing his leg to pieces.That player was M O'Conner of Crewe who has since declared for the Republic.Rule should be you decide when you are eighteen and no changing after that.

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Originally Posted by bennocelt

wasnt alan kernaghan born in norn iron, or am i completely wrong?

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Though brought up in NI and developed through the IFA under-age teams, Kernaghan and both his parents were born in England. The IFA did not at that time accept Grandparents (AK's were from NI) as being eligible to qualify him, so turned him down for the senior team (shortsighted clowns)
Consequently, Kernaghan turned to the FAI, who were prepared to give him his chance. Fair play to them both.

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Originally Posted by Not Brazil

The IFA asked itself the latter question some time ago, and are very pro active in supporting young players throughout Northern Ireland.

Not really the issue tho, is it?

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That is positive so.

However I'd suggest it becomes the issue if the IFA energy & time is spent trying to hand cuff young players.

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Originally Posted by Paddy Garcia

The ROI could not give a damn about their background, only if they could kick a ball reasonably straight.

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I agree entirely. My concern is not that the FAI cares about political or religious matters; rather it is that they don't give a damn about anything, in their efforts to produce the best possible team for themselves.
Which means they may be covertly "tapping up" (even inducing?) young NI-born players who otherwise are happy to play for us.
And if this is so, they will only dare approach kids from a Nationalist background, who are much less likely to "blow the whistle" (McKenna and Baird excepted).
The effect of which, intended or otherwise, is to discriminate against any young NI Prod who might fancy his chances with the ROI (unlikely, I know, but the principle remains).
More seriously, if continued, this policy could eventually lead to a "Catholic/Nationalist" team in Ireland (ROI) and a "Protestant/Unionist" team (NI).:eek:

And the IFA is the Association which continuously has to defend itself against charges of discrimination? :(

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Originally Posted by youngirish

They couldn't which is the point I made. So are you agreeing with me that its nonsense to suggest on a screening process because it would lead to abuses due to political/religious affiliations, or disagreeing?

I was never suggesting that the IFA should become a feeder organisation for the FAI and nor would it ever amount to that unless this problem starts happening on a far larger scale than currently but compensation is better than other suggestions of locking 14-15 year old kids in NI to their national team for life which FIFA definitely wouldn't agree to. It's also better than the current situation. I don't see a problem if a kid wants to switch to the ROI team from the NI setup, he should have the same options open to him as all other kids playing international football throughout the world (I think currently any player can change international teams if they haven't received a senior cap). Surely if the argument is that the IFA devoted it's resources to the development of these players then compensation can address that complaint. Forcing them to remain NI players is not an alternative option.

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Re your first para, I never suggested any sort of "screening" process. I don't see how it could work and I wouldn't agree even if it could. Clear?

Re your second Para, why would the FAI pay compensation unless they felt there was some sort of obligation? And if there were such obligation, since the players would only ever go one way and the money the other, that is in effect setting up a feeder Association.

Frankly, we do not want money, we want young players who play for us because they want to. If there are other kids who want to play for somebody else, then fair enough, let them do so.
Just don't let us waste our time and money on coaching kids who are only going to benefit someone else, at the same time as taking places that more committed, if less talented, kids would die for.

some young players may be falling prey to the influence of people whose interests may not be entirely footballing in scope - neighbours, "community workers", Agents, and a certain political party which otherwise never shows any affection for a "garrison Game", played on a Partitionist basis. Can we really say that a 17 year-old, facing such pressures, is really acting of his own free will

What utter rubbish. This is the sort of claptrap that you would expect from a unionist/loyalist politician, rather than a football fan.

Please provide some evidence for the above statement, if you can't, stop talking b**ls.

Darron Gibson from Derry has spoken several times on the issue. He talks of growing up supporting Ireland and going to internationals at Lansdowne, his family support Ireland , his community support Ireland , his city supports Ireland. The only influence Gibson came under was the influence of wanting to be like his hero Roy keane, who he wants to emulate on the international stage.

Marc Wilson from Lurgan was interviewed last week regarding his appearance in Don Given’s u21 squad, Wilson said it was the natural decision for him as he had grown up supporting Ireland and he was very comfortable within the set up.

Both players have been in the Ireland set up for the last couple of years, so I’m not sure why their decision is becoming an issue ‘to some’ now.

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Originally Posted by Jamjar

Why must we conclude that ? My attitude obviously has more to do with my age, I remember Billy Binghams era in charge, an era of blatant sectarianism (chants etc.), and so am sceptical of this huge shift, that is not to say it is not happening of course.
I personally don't give a flying fúck who plays for NI.

By the way, I don't know who Sammy Clingan is, but I doubt with a name like that, that he is a catholic/nationalist, but again, maybe I'm wrong.

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Have you ever been to an NI game, either in the Bingham era, or recently? I guess not. In which case, why do you remain sceptical, rather than open-minded, about all the evidence of the huge shift which so many people, neutral and authoritative, have documented? Indeed, why are you sceptical about the evidence of Neil Lennon himself? After all, as one of the victims most affected by former sectarianism etc, you might expect him to be the last person to come out and acknowledge change, as he so clearly has. Then again, he's probably not a sceptic.

As for your comment on Clingan, I'm afraid judging people by their name is "So 1980's, darling". These days, we have electronic scanners up here which automatically measure the distance between peoples eyes.

So maybe you are wrong...

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Originally Posted by co. down green

some young players may be falling prey to the influence of people whose interests may not be entirely footballing in scope - neighbours, "community workers", Agents, and a certain political party which otherwise never shows any affection for a "garrison Game", played on a Partitionist basis. Can we really say that a 17 year-old, facing such pressures, is really acting of his own free will

What utter rubbish. This is the sort of claptrap that you would expect from a unionist/loyalist politician, rather than a football fan.

Please provide some evidence for the above statement, if you can't, stop talking b**ls.

Darron Gibson from Derry has spoken several times on the issue. He talks of growing up supporting Ireland and going to internationals at Lansdowne, his family support Ireland , his community support Ireland , his city supports Ireland. The only influence Gibson came under was the influence of wanting to be like his hero Roy keane, who he wants to emulate on the international stage.

Marc Wilson from Lurgan was interviewed last week regarding his appearance in Don Given’s u21 squad, Wilson said it was the natural decision for him as he had grown up supporting Ireland and he was very comfortable within the set up.

Both players have been in the Ireland set up for the last couple of years, so I’m not sure why their decision is becoming an issue ‘to some’ now.

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I would be astonished if youngsters in many parts of NI were not coming under these sorts of pressures - on both sides of the divide. I am not saying that all succumb to them, nor that those from a Nationalist background (such as Gibson and Wilson) are acting in any way other than of their own free will.

But when kids from Nationalist areas are buying NI tops these days, but are wary about wearing them in their own community, it is "blind" not to recognise there may be a problem. In particular, we have recently seen Sinn Fein politicians commenting in faintly threatening terms on this whole issue, when the same individuals never previously expressed a damned bit of interest in the game.

As for evidence (of pressure in one direction, or inducements from the other), by definition this is going to be hard to produce. However, statements by Baird and McKenna are evidence.

And while I accept entirely your point about Gibson and Wilson, why are other players (Kane & O'Connor, for instance), suddenly opting for the ROI, when previously they were happy to represent NI on numerous occasions?

Unless, of course, they don't feel they good enough to get a game for NI these days? ;)

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Originally Posted by EalingGreen

In particular, we have recently seen Sinn Fein politicians commenting in faintly threatening terms on this whole issue, when the same individuals never previously expressed a damned bit of interest in the game.

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They were "warning" the IFA about "private lobbying" of FIFA over the issue EG.

They must have been right ****ed off when their recent request to privately lobby the IFA about forming a United Ireland team were put in the dustbin at Windsor Avenue.;)

The one good thing that comes out of all of this, is that it should finally kill any more crap being talked about a "United" Ireland side.

It copperfastens the future of the two Associations for the foreseeable future.

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Originally Posted by crc

GSTQ and the flag are still issues that need to be resolved, but if you genuinely do not realise that things have changed for the better, then I think that you have the problem.

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so it's not 'as bad', so what? hardly a lot to celebrate, cos as you said the major issues still stand.

Just because Lennon is not there to embarrass the bigots does not mean things have changed greatly....

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Originally Posted by crc

Take the fact that sectarian songs are no longer sung at WP (maybe by individual idiots, but not by the crowd).
Take the fact that the majority of the crowd go there wearing green replica NI tops (rather than Linfield, Rangers, or other 'provocative' tops).

Do you remember November '93? And have you seen any of the recent games? There's simply no comparison.

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have they played us recently? would you expect, in this climate, anything like '93? i surely wouldnt....

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Originally Posted by crc

On the issue of northern players declaring for the Republic, I don't think they should be restricted at all, but I can see the IFA's point. They are a small association (unlike the English FA, another place the Republic 'pinches'* from) and they should rightly expect to get the international players from their meagre resources.

Perhaps we should let the IFA pick players from the south. They used to do it up until the 50s, so why not? I doubt many payers would actually want to, but if we all agree that we're all Irish of one shade or another (and that is exactly what the Republic is doing when it exercises a right to pick players from the occupied six counties), then why shouldn't other Irish players be available for selction for the other Irish team?

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if they want to try and recuruit - fire away, but there's no reciprocal situation, as if you didn't know. there's no dual nationality, no disputes etc... but if they wanted to pick the dregs and people here who wanted to play for them fire away, but as you and i know, there are few dublin, cork, galway players who'd like to run out and stand for GSTQ.

if they get fellas from here with belfast born parents fire away, why not?
i do, however, sympathise with their 'plight' but can only say, tough. maybe if it were a more representative ass then things might not be as they are...

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Originally Posted by Not Brazil

They were "warning" the IFA about "private lobbying" of FIFA over the issue EG.

They must have been right ****ed off when their recent request to privately lobby the IFA about forming a United Ireland team were put in the dustbin at Windsor Avenue.;)

The one good thing that comes out of all of this, is that it should finally kill any more crap being talked about a "United" Ireland side.

It copperfastens the future of the two Associations for the foreseeable future.

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they were looking after the rights of young irishmen to proclaim their national identity without pressure from an unrepresentative association.

of course the IFA were not going to be interested in the united team:rolleyes:

was the 'united' team any more alive in recent months than now?

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Originally Posted by EalingGreen

More seriously, if continued, this policy could eventually lead to a "Catholic/Nationalist" team in Ireland (ROI) and a "Protestant/Unionist" team (NI).:eek: (

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hahahahahahahahahahah **breath** ahahahhahahahahhahahahhahaha imagine a team being represented by the majority religion in either jurisdiction!?!? call in the police!

fwiw, there will never be a religious breakdown in the south, though i'd wager 90% are catholics anyhow, albeit prob about 5% bother with it.

and why, now, is ther suddenly a worry that the NI team would represent unionism!!? it always has and will for the forseeable future!

Similar goings on between Mexico and the US - kids of Mexican descent, born in the US and gone through the US acadmies and represented the US at youth level are being scouted out and called up by Mexico:

http://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?t=423414

Merc 67,

"so it's not 'as bad', so what?"

It's actually very good.

"Just because Lennon is not there to embarrass the bigots does not mean things have changed greatly...."

Yip. This has been acknowledged by Neil Lennon - perhaps the biggest victim of the bigots.

"they were looking after the rights of young irishmen to proclaim their national identity without pressure from an unrepresentative association"

Oh right - political intervention and pressure then.:rolleyes:

It may be lost on you, but I'm an Irishman too.;)

How, exactly, are the IFA "unrepresentative"?

"of course the IFA were not going to be interested in the united team"

Of course not - why then did a political party seek meetings with the IFA to discuss this non runner?:eek:

"was the 'united' team any more alive in recent months than now?"

It comes and goes, doesn't it? Hopefully when this matter is resolved, it'll fade away.

"and why, now, is ther suddenly a worry that the NI team would represent unionism!!? it always has and will for the forseeable future!"

Erm - because we're very proud that our teams at all levels, do, and always have, included players from both main traditions in Northern Ireland?

I wouldn't expect ANY true republicans to support our teams under any circumstances - no matter what the anthem, flag etc - it would be sooooo not republican. The teams represent Northern Ireland, you see.

Come to think of it, I don't understand why true republicans support the ROI team either. Still, better the partitionist team you know eh?

Co Down Green.

Snap.:eek:

http://www.oneteaminireland.co.uk

:D

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Originally Posted by co. down green

http://oneteaminireland.bravehost.com/

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Originally Posted by Not Brazil

http://www.oneteaminireland.co.uk

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I wish there was only one team in Ireland, and in an ideal world I wouldn't mind if that team were the one that is currently called the Republic of Ireland (this would somehow involve the disappearance of the N.Ireland team). But it isn't an ideal world, and the NI team will not just disappear because of some uni-lateral action by the Republic, and consequently we could easily drift towards a situation with a de-facto nationalist international team, and a de-facto unionist international team. If that happenned, you would find that the prospects of an actual all-Ireland international team (one to which everyone could unambiguously give their allegiance) would be even more remote than it currently is.

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Originally Posted by crc

But it isn't an ideal world, and the NI team will not just disappear because of some uni-lateral action by the Republic, and consequently we could easily drift towards a situation with a de-facto nationalist international team, and a de-facto unionist international team. If that happenned, you would find that the prospects of an actual all-Ireland international team (one to which everyone could unambiguously give their allegiance) would be even more remote than it currently is.

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Absolutely spot on crc.