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Also as I said I am glad Arsenal got through and I hope they get to the final and play Barca so me having allegiances towards Spurs has nothng to do with it. As I explained earlier I am not a guy growing up with the rivalry of Spurs Arsenal and I dont see how as a resident of Dublin that I should buy in to that rivalry. I just have a liking for the traditions of spurs play and the fact that Robbie Keane and Chris Hughton are there makes me want them to do well.
Whatever about me not watching the same game as some of you, what about this, from today's Examiner:
Disciplined Gunners close in on holy grail
Juventus 0 Arsenal 0 (Agg 0-2)
By Jim van Wijk, San Siro
ARSENAL held their nerve to reach the semi-finals of the Champions League for the first time following last night’s goalless draw with Juventus.
If this guy was at the San Siro, he definitely saw a different game!
I accept Neil's comments as objective observations. I still think the fact that Arsenal got what they wanted with the minimum of fuss and creating a few gilt-edged chances in the process deserves credit.
Why did I think it was quality? Jens Lehmann's handling & positioning. Arsenal's breaking on the counter. Henry's first touch. Eboue's raiding of the right flank. Toure's reading of the game. Fabregas' ability to take a difficult ball, control it and turn in the same motion and have the vision to pick the best pass available, all in an instant. I thought all of this was quality.
I accept that Hleb's first touch is heavy & he gave the ball away quite a bit. Reyes went down easily too often (the ref was very good at spotting what was a genuine free and what was a player just looking for it), Gilberto was careless on occasion & Flamini was indisciplined (though for his yellow card there was no contact).
But to play that game out with the mimimum of threat from Juventus deserves credit, even if Juventus were poor.
Good post Stuttgart.
John Giles has many a bias so to say he analyses a game from a non bias perspective is untrue. He has a bias against the present day Premiership along with that person whose name I dare not speak. He had a bias against Charlton and McCarthy. He has a bias against Chelsea - the list goes on.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeilMcD
Well done on debating the points :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Clifford
I don't support either team so how do you explain me agreeing with almost all of his points....
Supporting a rival team doesn't make your points invalid. Im sure some people can put their biases aside especially when the team they support isn't even involved. As you don't think this is possible I presume that's because you are unable to do so. Don't presume everyone else is the same
who does anybody think will win it now???
didnt see any of this weeks games myself. Milan or Bartcelona any good?????
Milan were poor and Lyon should have won but failed to take their chances....Barcelona weren't fantastic but did the job.Quote:
Originally Posted by klein4
Still fancy Barcelona but would love to see Villa real win
I thought Milan were second best against Lyon & were very fortunate to go through. I only saw snap highlights of Barcelona and they got a slice of luck for their goal, missed a penalty and conceded at least one gilt-edged chance to Benfica. From what little I saw they were none too convincing. The best performances in the QFs came from Arsenal and Villareal I thought, and arguably Lyon too.
Who'll win? Too close to call. Each team has an arguement in its favour I reckon.
I didn't hear Johnny Giles' comments but judging by what I've read here, he is talking absolute ******! It's a pity they didn't press Johnny to see which great Arsenal team he was referring to. Was it the great Arsenal teams a few year back that went into Away games against Juventus & Valencia requiring only a draw to go through and miserably failed? Was it the 2004 Unbeaten Champions Team that held a one goal lead and (an away goal in the bag) against Chelsea with 20 minutes remaining. Which team was he talking about becuase I've never seen an Arsenal team at this stage of the tournament get a result that mattered let alone a 2 or 3 goal win away from home.
The performance last night I felt was controlled. I never once felt that Juve were going to get back into it. I thought we were incredibly dangerous on the counter attack - Eboue's chance to cross, Henry bistering run on goal thet he overhit into Buffon, the two Ljungberg slightly overhit while in on goal, Fabregas shot on target after great work by Hleb, Hleb's solo run and effort. I kid you not when I say Arsenal had more chances on goal last night than they did in a 5-1 away win at Inter a few years back and contary to popular belief the only difference in performances was we hit the net that night.
The defence was solid too, every effort at goal was long distance and there was a couple of crosses that player of the year Lehmann just lapped up. This Arsenal team have smashed the 10 year standing defensive record in the Champions League last night without 3 regular International defenders in the last 4 games. That is something none of Johnny's great Arsenal teams have ever managed, not even the famous back 5.
Still though Juve were useless and Arsenal couldnt capitalise on that , fair enough if they came to defend but it doesnt say much about them that they only drew against a team that turned in such a dire performance
It's pure speculation on my part, but I reckon if Arsenal HAD to score they would have.Quote:
Originally Posted by gustavo
Karlos, both the Inter games a few yrs ago were freak results. Sometimes every effort just goes in. It happened at Highbury & it happened in San Siro too.
dunno about last nite as I didnt see it but am sure if they go on to win it the performance wont matter much.the only thing that mattered was the result over the two legs. and they got through. are vilareal any use or have they just had an easy enough path to the semis?still think barcelona will self destruct against Milan but Arsenal v Barcelona would be great final.
A correct slig!:eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by gustavo
But to play that game out with the mimimum of threat from Juventus deserves credit
Again, the fact that Juve created nothing had very little to do with Arsenal defending or "enacting their gameplan perfectly" - they were so bad that they wouldn't have scored if Arsenal went off for 10 minutes to have a KitKat.
'Arsenal doing their job' really must undermine performances where teams have actually stopped teams from playing (i.e. 'enacting their gameplan')despite them being on top form, Chelsea v. Liverpool CL semi final - just won the league but only 1 shot on target in 190 minutes of pressure is one perfect example of doing a job under pressure.
Ok, so fair play to Arsenal they're through, but no-one can seriously, be unbiased and say that they 'held out' and were terrific. If they had any ambition, any ruthlessness, any demand to finish such a poor team, they should've and could've won that 3 or 4-0 easily.
It was sad and pitiful to watch that Juventus last night. The Old Lady would be turning in her grave.. :(
That's my point Stutt. Had every chance gone in last night but nothing else changed, would it have been a better performance? Everyone would be saying how great it was but the end result would have been the same, Arsenal Qualify. I've got the Inter game on DVD and it's a very poor game to watch and certainly no better performance wise than last night.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
The Arsenal gameplan was effective as they can't determine what the opposition would bring - that's out of their control. Their gameplan was to be comfortable, not conceed and create chances on the break. All was achieved as the game and the stats show.Quote:
Originally Posted by d f x-
I don't think the Arsenal performance was ever intended to be a drab affair. Arsenal created chances and looked comfortable and never looked like really conceeding.Quote:
Originally Posted by d f x-
Your right they didn't hold out. They never had to. They had a two goal lead after an explosive display in the first leg.Quote:
Originally Posted by d f x-
Ambition was to get to the semi-final, nothing else. Ambition achieved. Is that enough ambition?Quote:
Originally Posted by d f x-
Read back the thread, we were debating it all morning, why should I bother going over it all again for your interests?? Defeats the purpose really.Quote:
Originally Posted by micls
Debate should have two sides at least, you obviously think you are right so we'll leave it there eh. Do as many roll eyes as you like.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OwlsFan
I was talkilng about last nights game owls. it would be ridiculous for me to suggest that he does not have any bias as there is not a person on the planet that comments on everything from an objective point of view. Of course he has bias in certain ciscumstances which are formed by his experiences just like you or me. But in this case he does not have any clear bias in favour or against Arsenal.
Just as an aside I presume you are talking about Keane above and I always found that Giles was very middle ground in relation to Keane, maybe its you that has the bias there.
I dont think Giles ever said that Arsenal had a great team.Quote:
Originally Posted by KarlosIRL
Obviously his comments about Strachan being a liar last night then were true, cos we can't believe a manager anymore now can we. Shocking. (Now, before you bring this comment into disrepute, it's aimed at Giles' attack on Strachan despite not having met the guy, not aimed at you in any way shape or form)Quote:
Originally Posted by NeilMcD
I did not hear his comments about Strachan being a liar so I would not comment on that. I have just found that any time the issue of Keane comes up that Giles is generally middle ground in the whole thing. Some people felt he was too harsh on Keane and others felt that he was too pro Keane. That to me is the middle ground. I think if you think he is pro- Keane well that probably says more about that persons view of Keane more than Giles really.
Also I dont agree with everything Giles says but I do agree with his views on Arsenal.