Secret All-Ireland League talks to resume

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01/04/2006, 4:34 PM
CollegeTillIDie

Lux Interior you make a lot of interesting points.

But having the Setanta at weekends would pose problems for both the Irish League domestic competitions and for the League down here later on in the competition.
The Irish League issue could be addressed easily. It would involved losing one of two of your lesser competitions or else the withdrawl of the IL Setanta teams from these competitions. Which would mean that for example...
instead of entering the County Antrim Shield any Setanta Cup entrants could play each other in the Irish League instead thus freeing up a weekend later in the regular Irish League season in which to play a Setanta Cup fixture.
And perhaps that could be extended to all the rounds of that competition.
I myself believe that perhaps there could be scope for starting the Setanta Cup a little bit earlier in February which would avoid the fixture overcrowding currently being experienced by the likes of Cork City and Linfield for example these days.
02/04/2006, 10:10 AM
pete

Quote:

Originally Posted by CollegeTillIDie

I myself believe that perhaps there could be scope for starting the Setanta Cup a little bit earlier in February which would avoid the fixture overcrowding currently being experienced by the likes of Cork City and Linfield for example these days.

I think it started early enough this season & don't see scope to move it earlier. I think the problem is that we are playing Friday-Mon/Tuesday 4 weeks on the tro so soon in the season & that lessens the support interest as just too many games...
02/04/2006, 4:27 PM
Speranza

All of you who seek the novelty of an AIL still can't answer how exactly it will benefit football in our nation.

It is hard to define this "big club" nonsense that goes around but it needs to be said that only Glentoran, Linfield and arguably Portadown would be "big" enough to be in our Premier Division. Despite that these three clubs get awful crowds. All in all how would an AIL get the masses to watch domestic football.
02/04/2006, 5:35 PM
Speranza

Yeah. The stress of organising matches against Linfield in particular is simply not worth the effort. We are fine by ourselves.
02/04/2006, 7:28 PM
dcfcsteve

Quote:

Originally Posted by Speranza

All of you who seek the novelty of an AIL still can't answer how exactly it will benefit football in our nation.

It is hard to define this "big club" nonsense that goes around but it needs to be said that only Glentoran, Linfield and arguably Portadown would be "big" enough to be in our Premier Division. Despite that these three clubs get awful crowds. All in all how would an AIL get the masses to watch domestic football.

Media coverage. Without the oxygen of publicity, neither league is doing more than surviving.

TV figures for televised games show that people will watch Irish football. Watching games from home is the first step in the slow path a lot of people will make towards actively supporting a team. That initial step is lacking at the moment- hence we're having to convert people the hard way.

Setanta has shown there is media interest in an all-island league. A degree of consistent interest and financial support that doesn't exist amongst any media outlet for either league in isolation.
02/04/2006, 7:43 PM
pineapple stu

Are the figures for the Setanta Cup significantly higher than those for eircom League games though?
02/04/2006, 8:26 PM
Dassa

Quote:

Originally Posted by Speranza

Yeah. The stress of organising matches against Linfield in particular is simply not worth the effort. We are fine by ourselves.

And the IL are fine by ourselves. Clubs shouldnt be worrying about what could or might be in the future but should be looking at trying to improve what we currently have.
02/04/2006, 9:50 PM
dcfcsteve

Quote:

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

Are the figures for the Setanta Cup significantly higher than those for eircom League games though?

I'm not sure if Setanta or anyone else publishes their viewing stats. Would be interesting to see the figures - though they'd be limited due to the paid-for element in accessing the channel in large parts of the country.

One thing's for sure - the figures for Setanta cup games shown live are significantly higher than those for the 11 Eircom league and 8 Irish League Premier division games that aren't shown live on an average week...... :)
02/04/2006, 10:06 PM
hamish

Thing just struck me - if the meeting(s) are secret how do we know about it or are the clubs kinda "manufacturing" leaks to test the water North and South...em....like what's happening in this thread???:confused: :confused:
02/04/2006, 11:33 PM
Dassa

Quote:

Originally Posted by gonzo

Well there's a contradictory statement!:eek: Improvements for all Irish clubs would follow through Competition.
Though the dinosaurs/ostriches would rather wallow in the continuing mediocrity. Apt really.:D

Not contradictory at all. I mean we could sit and talk about something thats very likely not to happen (AIL), or we can look at realistic steps to make both our leagues more attractive to fans.

I could sit here and say that a great way to encourage fans to come to watch Loughgall and other IL teams would be to invite Man Utd or Liverpool to join our league, but that is stupid because surprise surprise it WOULD NEVER HAPPEN just like the AIL.

The club who would probably gain most from IL in this league is linfield and their chairman has said Linfield are not interested.
03/04/2006, 10:08 AM
dcfcsteve

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dassa

Not contradictory at all. I mean we could sit and talk about something thats very likely not to happen (AIL), or we can look at realistic steps to make both our leagues more attractive to fans.

I could sit here and say that a great way to encourage fans to come to watch Loughgall and other IL teams would be to invite Man Utd or Liverpool to join our league, but that is stupid because surprise surprise it WOULD NEVER HAPPEN just like the AIL.

The club who would probably gain most from IL in this league is linfield and their chairman has said Linfield are not interested.

Never say 'never' Dassa.

Personally, I think some form of all-island league is inevitable. It won't happen tomorrow, and might be quite a few years away yet - but in my view it's inevitable. We'll know eventually which one of us is right on this...

Would disgree totally with your suggestion that Linfield have the most to gain from an AIL though. I'd say it would be the teams immediately below them in the IL who'd gain the most - they can't overcome Linfield's strangle-hold on the league at the moment. An AIL would see Linfield switch from being pretty much guaranteed at least one trophy and European football every year, to finding neither of those current 'certainties' are assured - particularly in the short-to-medium term. That suggests they actually have most to lose from the idea. And that's before you add in any 'political' considerations, given the traditional ethos of the club/its supporters.
03/04/2006, 11:48 AM
JW.

You can't compare Setanta Cup viewing figures and eircom League, because everyone has RTE and most people in Ireland don't have Setanta.
An All-Ireland League is the only way forward, but of course it in itself would not solve everything. The league is coming on well here though - we've plenty to be happy about.
03/04/2006, 12:24 PM
pineapple stu

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

One thing's for sure - the figures for Setanta cup games shown live are significantly higher than those for the 11 Eircom league and 8 Irish League Premier division games that aren't shown live on an average week...... :)

True, if completely irrelevant when comparing viewing figures for the Setanta Cup games with viewing figures for eircom League games to see where Setanta's bigger interest lies.
03/04/2006, 12:32 PM
ifk101

I honestly don't see why people believe an AIL would improve everyone's lot. There seems to be an assumption that quality levels will dramatically improve and the AIL will be awash with a massive wave of investment. Where's this coming from? No disrespect to the Irish League teams but LOI teams are further down the professionalism road and if, for example a 16-team premier league is created (8 LOI teams, 8 Irish League), I believe that over a season the top 8 places in that league would be dominated by LOI teams. Furthermore if there is a lower tier league, I would expect LOI to dominate the promotion places to the premier. In effect there would be an imbalance in the quality of the league in the short-to-medium term and in the long-term likely to be a heavy bias or number of LOI teams in the premier division. Then you have this vicious circle - success breeds success. Any investment would go to the stronger LOI clubs helping to consolidate their positions at the top of the pile. In effect, with the exception of one or two teams, we're back to a LOI premier division within a few years.

Another thing against an AIL is the lack of rivalry between LOI and Irish League clubs. People might complain about UCD but I believe that UCD would still draw a larger crowd to any LOI premier match than what Dungannon Swifts would (not that it would be much of a crowd in either match mind you). Rivalry takes time to build but an AIL doesn't have that time on its hands.

In fairness the standard or LOI football on display has improved greatly in the last five years. There is still a long way to go before the LOI can support a full-time professional league but it is going in the right direction. (Can we honestly say this about Irish League football?) I think an AIL would slow this improvement down for LOI sides in the short-to-medium term - which surely isn't what LOI fans want. And while the Setanta Cup isn't that great a yard-stick to measure the merits of LOI and Irish League football, there is a clear gap in the standard of LOI versus Irish League teams. Only Linfield of the Irish League teams has held its own. Do Irish league fans really want to watch their teams playing second-fiddle on a weekly basis or would they prefer to see them competing for a league title or European competition place?
03/04/2006, 1:08 PM
pete

First RTE2 live eL match Cork City v Bohs doesn't seem to have got great viewing figures as based on latest rating has failed to get more than 129k viewers....

Premiership live on saturday afternoon 25th Match got 137k although i can't remember what match that was...
03/04/2006, 1:20 PM
Schumi

Quote:

Originally Posted by JW.

You can't compare Setanta Cup viewing figures and eircom League, because everyone has RTE and most people in Ireland don't have Setanta.

You could compare to the EL matches on Setanta though.
03/04/2006, 3:10 PM
dcfcsteve

Quote:

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

True, if completely irrelevant when comparing viewing figures for the Setanta Cup games with viewing figures for eircom League games to see where Setanta's bigger interest lies.

I'd suggest the formation from-scratch of a relatively risky (from a security perspective) competition with their name on it, and the injection of a 6 figure sum into it as prize money, gives a fairly clear indication of where Setanta's bigger interest lies.....
03/04/2006, 3:11 PM
dcfcsteve

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schumi

You could compare to the EL matches on Setanta though.

But we have viewing figures on neither ...!
03/04/2006, 3:52 PM
pineapple stu

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

I'd suggest the formation from-scratch of a relatively risky (from a security perspective) competition with their name on it, and the injection of a 6 figure sum into it as prize money, gives a fairly clear indication of where Setanta's bigger interest lies.....

Didn't the prize money from the eL rise from E18k to E400k due to increased sponsorship from TV companies as well? That indicates that the three TV stations - RT�, Setanta and TG4 - each paid a 6 figure sum for rights as well. So there's much of a muchness really.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

But we have viewing figures on neither ...!

You might want to read the context of the post first...?
03/04/2006, 4:28 PM
Dassa

Quote:

Originally Posted by gonzo

An input of fresh blood(hopefully not 'literally') & local teams of a raised standard would make the prospect, er, more attractive.

As for Linfield & dinosaurs of that ilk;

What is this notion that if you disagree with the idea of an AIL you are a dinosaur living in the past,this is just ridiculus. I dont want to see an AIL because i think that once the novelty wears off the league will be a disaster. This may be my opinion but doesnt mean that me and the likes of Linfield's Chairman live in the past.

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